Mac of Cygnet Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 NB (or nb, Nb, N.B.) seems to be widely used before narrowboat names in the same way as HMS, RMS, SS before ships, but I can´t find any justification for this despite my dog's tag having nb 'Cygnet' on it. Indeed, it is absent from a list of 60 meanings of the acronym NB, and doesn´t appear in any dictionary. When did it appear? There doesn´t seem to be any equivalent for widebeams - is there? (Mrs Mac asked me this, and I was unable to answer, so where better to come?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) Nearest I can come up with. Narrowboats Terminology Purists tend to use the term with a space (narrow boat) when referring to an original boat or a replica, and to omit the space when referring to a modern boat used for leisure or as a residence – but this is not a hard and fast rule.[citation needed] The single word ‘narrowboat’ has been adopted by authorities such as British Waterways and the magazine Waterways World to refer to all boats built in the style and tradition of the narrow canal locks. Although some narrow boats were built to a design based on river barges, it is incorrect to refer to a narrowboat (or narrow boat) as a barge. In the context of the British inland waterways, a barge is usually a much wider, cargo-carrying boat or a modern boat modelled on one, certainly more than 7 feet (2.1 m) wide. It is also incorrect (or at least incongruous) to refer to a narrowboat as a longboat, although this name was sometimes used in the Midlands in working-boat days. Usage has not quite settled down as regards (a) boats based on narrowboat design, but too wide for narrow canals; or (b) boats the same width as narrowboats but based on other types of boat. From here: https://livingonanarrowboat.co.uk/narrowboats/ Also here: https://www.waterways.org.uk/blog/evolution_the_narrow_boat The concept of a boat approximately 7ft wide by about 70 ft long is attributed to James Brindley, who was one of the most influential canal engineers. Brindley reached an agreement with the Proprietors of the Trent & Mersey Canal Company to build the locks on their canal to take boats of that size. The dimensions, which were considerably narrower than craft using the rivers that the canal would link to, were perhaps due to the need to tunnel under Harecastle Hill. This then became the standard size of lock on the rest of the Midlands canals built subsequently. Modern Narrowboats The term 'narrowboat' (one word) has become widely accepted to describe modern purpose built steel craft of a beam to fit on the narrow canal system. It is generally more accurate to refer to historic working boats as 'narrow boats' (two words). Edited November 9, 2017 by Ray T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momac Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 Should perhaps use MV = Motor Vessel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlt Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 26 minutes ago, MartynG said: Should perhaps use MV = Motor Vessel or..."CC" = CloneCraft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac of Cygnet Posted November 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 21 minutes ago, MartynG said: Should perhaps use MV = Motor Vessel MV is an accepted term, and refers to a wide (!) variety of vessels, both sea-going and inland. I was referring to the use of NB such as NB President and many others. Its meaning is probably obvious to inland boaters, but perhaps not to the public, and not generally accepted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 1 minute ago, Mac of Cygnet said: MV is an accepted term, and refers to a wide (!) variety of vessels, both sea-going and inland. I was referring to the use of NB such as NB President and many others. Its meaning is probably obvious to inland boaters, but perhaps not to the public, and not generally accepted? Many groups use abbreviations that are meaningful to them and are not accepted by the public Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DandV Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 1 hour ago, MartynG said: Should perhaps use MV = Motor Vessel I think some enthusiasts can get overly precious on "correct" terminology The first ship I was on was the TEV Rangitira (Turbo Electric Vessel). The second the GMV Aramoana (Government Motor Vessel). I came to England on the RHMS Britanis) Royal Hellenic Mail Ship. NB seems a good way to designate barges built specifically to operate on the narrow canals of England, and the new recreational boats based descended from them. And yes, working narrowboats are barges, as defined in the Oxford Dictionary A flat-bottomed boat for carrying freight, typically on canals and rivers, either under its own power or towed by another. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 Just now, DandV said: as defined in the Oxford Dictionary And in what way is that an authoritative source on this subject? A dictionary is what you turn to when you don't know the meaning of a word. There are many words that have usages not in dictionaries English is fun that way Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DandV Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 Just now, RLWP said: And in what way is that an authoritative source on this subject? A dictionary is what you turn to when you don't know the meaning of a word. There are many words that have usages not in dictionaries English is fun that way Richard Agreed. A dictionary is not inclusive of all usage Conversely, it is difficult to argue that, a significant type of English flat-bottomed boats for built for carrying freight, typically on canals and rivers, either under their own power or towed by another require a special exclusion from the barge definition. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 Especially when carrying barge poles, or using a barge canal Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 Also when using VHF to call London VTS and locks etc it lets them know exactly what type of boat it is. For a lock keeper it may allow him/her to pack the lock more efficiently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlt Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said: Also when using VHF to call London VTS and locks etc it lets them know exactly what type of boat it is. For a lock keeper it may allow him/her to pack the lock more efficiently. although a few years ago I could have been approaching a lock and describing my boat as "MV" and they could have seen my 12' runabout or 51' ex-RNLI lifeboat approaching... Likewise "NB" could be a 20' Springer Waterbug or a 72' Royalty motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 Just now, carlt said: although a few years ago I could have been approaching a lock and describing my boat as "MV" and they could have seen my 12' runabout or 51' ex-RNLI lifeboat approaching... Likewise "NB" could be a 20' Springer Waterbug or a 72' Royalty motor. True, but only about 7ft beam so in many cases could fit between two more conventional boats in a lock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanshaft Posted November 15, 2017 Report Share Posted November 15, 2017 On 11/9/2017 at 18:08, Mac of Cygnet said: NB (or nb, Nb, N.B.) seems to be widely used before narrowboat names in the same way as HMS, RMS, SS before ships, but I can´t find any justification for this despite my dog's tag having nb 'Cygnet' on it. Indeed, it is absent from a list of 60 meanings of the acronym NB, and doesn´t appear in any dictionary. When did it appear? There doesn´t seem to be any equivalent for widebeams - is there? (Mrs Mac asked me this, and I was unable to answer, so where better to come?) I recall Malcolm Braine saying that strictly speaking NB should only be used when referring to an unpowered narrow boat i.e. a butty or a horse drawn boat. A motor narrow boat should be M B. He always used MB for motor narrow boats. Regards David L 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted November 15, 2017 Report Share Posted November 15, 2017 11 minutes ago, fanshaft said: I recall Malcolm Braine saying that strictly speaking NB should only be used when referring to an unpowered narrow boat i.e. a butty or a horse drawn boat. A motor narrow boat should be M B. He always used MB for motor narrow boats. Regards David L A marrow boat? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Riley Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 8 hours ago, fanshaft said: I recall Malcolm Braine saying that strictly speaking NB should only be used when referring to an unpowered narrow boat i.e. a butty or a horse drawn boat. A motor narrow boat should be M B. He always used MB for motor narrow boats. Regards David L One that carries plumbers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_P Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 10 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said: A marrow boat? Childhood favourite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tam & Di Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 In French "barge" means a nutcase/loony - maybe not inappropriate for those on narrowboats on UK canals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Schweizer Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 11 hours ago, fanshaft said: I recall Malcolm Braine saying that strictly speaking NB should only be used when referring to an unpowered narrow boat i.e. a butty or a horse drawn boat. A motor narrow boat should be M B. He always used MB for motor narrow boats. Regards David L Nothing to do with MB being his initials then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartland Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 Nota Bene, to NB or not to NB, that is the question. Perhaps the answer is NB is a widely used abbreviation for Narrowboats or Narrow Boats, whether they are powered or not. Whether a term is applied for the larger craft is another matter, because each type of craft, Trent Boat, Keel, Wherry etc all have separate identifications. For the Narrowboat the term is generally more general unless you own a Josher or Bantock, perhaps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 3 hours ago, Tam & Di said: In French "barge" means a nutcase/loony - maybe not inappropriate for those on narrowboats on UK canals? I have had an interest in Fulbourne for over 20 years. The boat is named after the village outside Cambridge which is best known for its large mental hospital. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 3 hours ago, Tam & Di said: In French "barge" means a nutcase/loony - maybe not inappropriate for those on narrowboats on UK canals? That's the second bit of waterways-related vocab. I have learned this week; I read that the French for a gongoozler is "un badaud" - is that correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tam & Di Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 I had to look that one up, but yes, it means a gawper. Badauder is to stroll around idly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 And in Yorkshire someone who wasn’t born & bred in the locale is known as an offcumden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cereal tiller Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 19 minutes ago, WotEver said: And in Yorkshire someone who wasn’t born & bred in the locale is known as an offcumden Are they People that are questioned how frequently they attend that TV Dancing Programme ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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