How much artistic licence? (Just a bit of fun)

[Chertsey]

Oh wow, who'd have thought it would lead to all this fabulous info. I have of course been up and down that line many many times - I am just very geographically unaware. I'm quite pleased that the picture turns out to be pretty accurate. One little thing still bothers me - how are the running blocks fixed? I've never paid much attention but I thought they went under the top strings - but in the picture they're not lined up with them.

[Leo No2]

Oh wow, who'd have thought it would lead to all this fabulous info. I have of course been up and down that line many many times - I am just very geographically unaware. I'm quite pleased that the picture turns out to be pretty accurate. One little thing still bothers me - how are the running blocks fixed? I've never paid much attention but I thought they went under the top strings - but in the picture they're not lined up with them.

 

Ilford - June 2014

[Derek R.]

I have a calender with a similar theme, only on the Kennet & Avon and GWR steam. If it surfaces I'll post one up!

[John Brightley]

Oh wow, who'd have thought it would lead to all this fabulous info. I have of course been up and down that line many many times - I am just very geographically unaware. I'm quite pleased that the picture turns out to be pretty accurate. One little thing still bothers me - how are the running blocks fixed? I've never paid much attention but I thought they went under the top strings - but in the picture they're not lined up with them.

If you haven't seen it already, you might also find Rebekah Fuller's great film of Ilford being long lined up Audlem interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4TjsROGOYM

[Captain Pegg]

The line is still there and now electrified. It seems fairly true to what was probably there at the time. The buildings in the distance are probably what is now Rose Narropwboat workshops.

There may be a bit of 'reverse history' going on here. On the Rose Narrowboats website there is a picture of Stretton Stop in 1961 which shows at that time there was no building on the outside of the narrows. It may be that there was originally a building in the position that was subsequently demolished and then a new building erected in the same place. I think though it's just as likely that the artist has backfitted the modern building in to the scene.

 

JP

[Laurence Hogg]

There may be a bit of 'reverse history' going on here. On the Rose Narrowboats website there is a picture of Stretton Stop in 1961 which shows at that time there was no building on the outside of the narrows. It may be that there was originally a building in the position that was subsequently demolished and then a new building erected in the same place. I think though it's just as likely that the artist has backfitted the modern building in to the scene.

 

JP

 

All available maps show no building between the canal and the railway, however there would have been a tall signal post visible as there was also a station at the bridge.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Laurence Hogg

[alan_fincher]

The location is known as Smeaton Lane on the railway today. That's the name of the road that passes under the canal and railway.

 

It's on the Trent Valley line (Rugby to Stafford) which is part of the West Coast Main Line. The railway is three tracked at this location and to the best of my knowledge the section between Rugby and Nuneaton never was fully four tracked. The four track sections were Rugby to Brinklow and Attleborugh to Nuneaton (and on to Tamworth) and the central section never had more than three continuous tracks. Of course the presence of the canal adjacent to the railway may have been a factor in the central section never being completed despite I believe having enabling powers.

 

At some point in the 60s or 70s (possibly with resignaliing in the mid-60s when the line was electrified) the entire section between Rugby and Nuneaton was reduced to three tracks throughout with both fast and slow lines in the up direction (toward London) but only one line in the down direction. The up fast line - which is the middle of the three tracks - was also signalled in the down direction such that any one line could be closed for maintenance and one track would still be available in each direction.

 

Subsequently the four track sections were reinstated as part of the West Coast upgrade completed in 2008. At the same time the double track section from Tamworth to Armitage was also quadrupled. That section had never had more than two tracks other than through Lichfield station.

 

One specific reason why the Brinklow to Attleborough section hasn't been four tracked is that it is used to 'cross' the down slow line from the east side of the down fast - where it sits from London to Brinklow - to the west side at Attleborough. This is required due to the different track configuration of the WCML on the Trent Valley section compared to south of Rugby and north of Stafford.

 

There is limited local passenger traffic on the Trent Valley lines and the freight trains are generally Class 4 75mph intermodal services that are not impacted by the junctions at Brinklow and Attleborough which have 75mph turnout speeds. Therefore sufficient capacity exists even with the short three track section. Should more capacity be required some form of grade separation between the down fast and down slow lines would have to be provided in order to complete the four tracking.

 

JP

 

Edited because I remembered that the Rugby to Brinklow reinstatement was part of the 2008 upgrade and the earlier works at Brinklow I referred to were to provide a loop with high speed entry and exit.

 

That is truly fascinating to me as a railway enthusiast. Of course the featured location is very close to the point at which the Northbound fast and slow lines blend into just one - if you stand on the road over-bridge there, and look South you can actually see the point it changes from four tracks to three. (I think it is called Brinklow Junction?).

 

There seems to be a high intensity of trains here, and whilst I agree not that many "locals", the freight traffic actually seems quite intense, and although "fast" still very slow by Pendolino standards. To the layman it seems quite hard to think there are not occasions when "down" traffic must just about be using things to capacity

[IanM]

If this link works...

 

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/BRINKLW?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

 

It should show all workings passing Brinklow around now.

 

Else stick Brinklow in as the location on the search page http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced

Edited October 19, 2016 by IanM

[David Schweizer]

How about this jigsaw?

 

 

The location is Little Bedwyn on the K&A, although, from recollection the church is a little further from the railway than is depicted. The Honey Street barge Unity was the last to operate on the K&A, being withdrawn in 1933, so how realistic is it for a double header to be running on that line before 1933 headed by a first series Saint, with a modified safety valve, followed by a Castle?

[Captain Pegg]

That is truly fascinating to me as a railway enthusiast. Of course the featured location is very close to the point at which the Northbound fast and slow lines blend into just one - if you stand on the road over-bridge there, and look South you can actually see the point it changes from four tracks to three. (I think it is called Brinklow Junction?).

There seems to be a high intensity of trains here, and whilst I agree not that many "locals", the freight traffic actually seems quite intense, and although "fast" still very slow by Pendolino standards. To the layman it seems quite hard to think there are not occasions when "down" traffic must just about be using things to capacity

The line is worked at or close to capacity for at least 16 hours a day. The margin for the freight trains has to be created by flighting the express trains in batches rather than having them evenly spread out. You can see that with the nine Virgin Trains fast line departures from Euston every hour being at 00, 03, 07, 10, 20, 23, 30, 40 and 43. They are followed by the xx46 London Midland departure to Crewe which is the Trent Valley 'local' albeit even that operates at up 110mph. The 03, 23 and 43 departures from Euston turn left at Rugby for Birmingham and within the gaps that remain at Brinklow some freight trains can be timetabled in amongst the seven passenger trains. Looking at the timetable it isn't a regular pattern for freights but there does appear to be two or three non-passenger paths available during any off peak hour.

 

Down trains share the same track for approximately seven miles between Brinklow and Attleborough and the time to cover that distance is 3.5 minutes for a passenger train and 7 minutes for a typical freight train. The gap between passenger trains into which a freight could slot would need to be at least 10 minutes.

 

The WCML is worked at or close to capacity throughout its length and the southern section would be so even if it had six tracks given that freight paths and timings are suppressed. Demand continues to grow and alternative routes to Nuneaton from Southampton and Felixstowe continue to be developed and gauge cleared for larger vehicles. That itself brings other capacity constraints on those routes. Hence some bright spark thought it might be a good idea to build a new railway from London to Birmingham and Manchester.

 

JP

[furnessvale]

Hence some bright spark thought it might be a good idea to build a new railway from London to Birmingham and Manchester.

 

 

Don't say that! The NIMBYs are convinced there is absolutely no need for HS2.

 

When I tell them it is either a new railway or another motorway through the Chilterns, take your pick, they are aghast.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[Chertsey]

How about this jigsaw?

 

 

The location is Little Bedwyn on the K&A, although, from recollection the church is a little further from the railway than is depicted. The Honey Street barge Unity was the last to operate on the K&A, being withdrawn in 1933, so how realistic is it for a double header to be running on that line before 1933 headed by a first series Saint, with a modified safety valve, followed by a Castle?

Oh yes, that's another one in the same series; it's on the back of my box. There are two others but they don't have boats in so are clearly of no interest whatsoever.

I'm going to start doing it now :-)

[Graham Davis]

How about this jigsaw?

 

 

The location is Little Bedwyn on the K&A, although, from recollection the church is a little further from the railway than is depicted. The Honey Street barge Unity was the last to operate on the K&A, being withdrawn in 1933, so how realistic is it for a double header to be running on that line before 1933 headed by a first series Saint, with a modified safety valve, followed by a Castle?

 

Possible if one of them was doing a "running in turn" from Swindon Works.

[David Schweizer]

 

Possible if one of them was doing a "running in turn" from Swindon Works.

 

Yes possibly, but how many first series Saints had been fitted with the revised safety valve by1933, the new style had only been introduced on new locos a few years earlier. I suppose if the artist copied later pictures of the few surviving Saints, he could be forgiven for thinking they were original fittings.

[davidg]

 

I think it is called Brinklow Junction?

It is Brinklow Junction in the sectional appendix.

 

Of course the section from Rugby to Brinklow Is odd in that the tracks are paired by direction but with the down fast line on the outside of the down slow. The up lines being the more normal way round with the fast on the inside, as is the case for both up &down lines from Attleborough northwards. The use of Rugby's island platform for stopping trains in the down direction is the reason for this.

Edited October 19, 2016 by davidg

[Captain Pegg]

Of course the section from Rugby to Brinklow Is odd in that the tracks are paired by direction but with the down fast line on the outside of the down slow.

 

The use of Rugby's island platform for stopping trains in the down direction is the reason for this.

The use of the island platform is more consequence than cause. The down fast is outside the down slow primarily to facilitate the 125mph both ways junction between the Down Birmingham and Down Trent Valley Fast lines.

 

The only service that is currently timetabled to use Platform 2 (the down island platform) is the hourly Euston - Crewe LM service which is routed via the Down Fast north of Rugby in any case.

 

JP

[fittie]

 

The Railway Inn, as was.

 

In the mid sixties my dad, kept his boat up the arm and directly under the railway bridge ..... it was noisy.

It was Maidline Cruisers in those days.

Was it a Davenports pub?

[Athy]

Oh wow, who'd have thought it would lead to all this fabulous info. I have of course been up and down that line many many times - I am just very geographically unaware. I'm quite pleased that the picture turns out to be pretty accurate.

The train is correct for the West Coast line: unless I'm mistaken it's the Coronation Scot, hauled by a matching Coronation class locomotive. This narrows down the date depicted, as the locos (and train) were introduced in 1937, and the train was withdrawn shortly after the beginning of WW2 in 1939.

 

I think I've seen this picture, the GWR one and others like them on plates, perhaps those limited edition ones made by Danbury Mint of similar.

[bizzard]

Here's a picture on my wall. At an angle cos its a long pic with things in the way. Called ''Travel in 1875'' print of a painting by C.Hamilton Ellis. Location near Brinklow. Depicting a Webb Precedent loco hauling the Tourists express. Passing butty Sarah.

Click in pic to enlarge.

[Captain Pegg]

Here's a picture on my wall. At an angle cos its a long pic with things in the way. Called ''Travel in 1875'' print of a painting by C.Hamilton Ellis. Location near Brinklow. Depicting a Webb Precedent loco hauling the Tourists express. Passing butty Sarah.

Horseboat Sarah rather than butty surely Bizzard?

 

JP

[FadeToScarlet]

Horseboat Sarah rather than butty surely Bizzard?

JP

Horseboats were sometimes worked in pairs, too.

 

Edit to clarify- you're right, but I thought that a fascinating extra detail.

Edited October 23, 2016 by FadeToScarlet

[Captain Pegg]

Horseboats were sometimes worked in pairs, too.

Edit to clarify- you're right, but I thought that a fascinating extra detail.

Indeed they were. Thanks to Pete Harrison I know my great grandfather had two horseboats registered simultaneously.

 

I have accumulated about a hundred census records for horseboats over the last couple of months and acquired copies of 'Boat People of the Oxford Canal' volumes one and two. These records show two boats together routinely and even where the link isn't explicit it is implied by the number and names of the boat occupants.

 

Interestingly the boats Britannia and Perseverance that were paired up in exactly this way in the story of Ramlin Rose were names of boats that were both operated by William and Ellen Grantham (my great great aunt). They were however far from the only boats with those names.

 

JP

[Heartland]

From the railway point of view the locomotive 6221 was named Queen Elizabeth and streamlined.

Edited October 23, 2016 by Heartland

[mark99]

Phillip D Hawkins

 

 

 

 

 

For railway heads - drool at these.

 

http://www.quicksilverpublishing.co.uk/

Edited October 24, 2016 by mark99

[Derek R.]

That's nice. But what's the horse for?