Machpoint005 Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 If you are in a narrowboat sharing a lock with a yogurt pot, you should always go in first. If he hits you it won't do any damage ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty40s Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Ah it was your boat at Buckby, we were sat in pub garden, my friend helped you through, I recall a small problem with closing one of the paddles. Yes that was us. You sit there thinking that it's taking an awful longtime today and then look back and curse the person who let the water out..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob-M Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 (edited) If I'm sharing a broad lock with another narrowboat I will always ask them if they are happy to enter the lock at the same time as it generally makes it easier. I enjoy doing Hatton and travelling along the pounds side by side with a part and rejoin manoeuvre if a boat comes the other way and entering the locks together. Edit: Photo of me coming up Hatton on Swift with another boat. Edited April 18, 2016 by Rob-M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Generally it's best for both boats to go in together or failing that with the second boat leaving no gap and preferably a slight overlap. Otherwise, if it's anything like our boat, as soon as you hit reverse its off over the other side of the lock and has to be pulled back in before the second boat can fit, all of which causes a lot of unnecessary faff. Its possible on some locks to stop the boat without using reverse, even going uphill. On the GU broad ones I did there was a "landing" area at the mouth of the lock which I was able to step onto with a rope, then slow the boat and keep it at the side by using a bollard to slip then gradually grip the rope around. Even if its not possible to do this, once familiar with the boat a lock can be entered accurately and not need much reverse to slow it to a stop, thus staying near/on the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuthound Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 (edited) Please don't do this, very dangerous. One at a time into a lock.Why, unless the (wide) lock is unusually narrow and/or someone has fenders down I fail to see the risk. Generally it's best for both boats to go in together or failing that with the second boat leaving no gap and preferably a slight overlap. Otherwise, if it's anything like our boat, as soon as you hit reverse its off over the other side of the lock and has to be pulled back in before the second boat can fit, all of which causes a lot of unnecessary faff. I agree, we also have issues keeping straight when reverse is applied, no matter which side I choose. You could choose the side that your prop walk takes you to, which would put the stern against the side without ropes Richard Doesn't seem to work with DQ reliably. If you are in a narrowboat sharing a lock with a yogurt pot, you should always go in first. If he hits you it won't do any damage ... Yes, the mantra in the 70's when there were many more grp boats than steel boats was "steel in first and out last". Edited for spillung. Edited April 18, 2016 by cuthound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john6767 Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 You could choose the side that your prop walk takes you to, which would put the stern against the side without ropes Richard Does that really work on entering a lock, I find that what ever side I go to the stern gets pushed out by hitting reverse to stop. The only way tI can end up parallel to the side is to angle the boat with the bow to the side and the stern out, set the stern swinging to the side and then hit reverse. If you get the timing right you end up parallel, but when you get it wrong you end up all over the place and using a rope to pull the boat over to the side. Going down the other alternative I sometimes use is to take the centre line to the middle bollard, and use that to stop the boat, which causes it to get pulled into the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keeping Up Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 If you go in first and go all the way to the cill, with the bow aimed near to the side and the stern well out, you can come to a halt (using reverse) touching the cill then use slow ahead to keep the bow in place to pivot on while you use the tiller to bring the stern to the wall - rather like winding - and hold it there. As soon as the other boat's bow has passed your stern you engage neutral and your boat will be pushed back from the cill (if you wish) by his entry. A bonus is that if his aim is a bit off, you can push his bow at least 3ft away from you by smartly opening your throttle. But I'd rather go in together if the other steerer agrees and I am confident in his steering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Booth Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Why, unless the (wide) lock is unusually narrow and/or someone has fenders down I fail to see the risk. There is no way of telling if the lock you are entering is a bit narrower that other locks, plus the gates might not open fully due to a blockage. The safe way is to open one gate, the boat goes in and sits behind the closed gate (person on lock holding its rope). The next boat goes in and can't hit the boat due to the gate protecting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 (edited) If I'm sharing a broad lock with another narrowboat I will always ask them if they are happy to enter the lock at the same time as it generally makes it easier. I enjoy doing Hatton and travelling along the pounds side by side with a part and rejoin manoeuvre if a boat comes the other way and entering the locks together. 9301248151_de15ba524a_o.jpg Edit: Photo of me coming up Hatton on Swift with another boat. And if in a flight of closely space broad locks you can tie the boats together and then you actually only need one steerer. Not needed for larger crews, but useful if one or both of you are single handed. Edited April 18, 2016 by David Mack 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0atman Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Two single handers tie boats together freeing one to do lock work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 (edited) Two single handers tie boats together freeing one to do lock work " Brested up" which is exactly what David Schweizer and myself used to do on visits to the Buckby Banter's. Improved my boat handling Edited April 18, 2016 by Ray T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top cat Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 And if in a flight of closely space broad locks you can tie the boats together and then you actually only need one steerer. Not needed for larger crews, but useful if one or both of you are single handed. Yup works for us, though we did have to single up in a hurry once when bystanders warned of a particularly narrow bridge in the flight. Top Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 There is no way of telling if the lock you are entering is a bit narrower that other locks, plus the gates might not open fully due to a blockage. The safe way is to open one gate, the boat goes in and sits behind the closed gate (person on lock holding its rope). The next boat goes in and can't hit the boat due to the gate protecting it. Can you judge bridgeholes properly? If you can judge a 7' gap okay, there is no reason not to judge a 14'+ gap okay. If the gates don't open fully, it will be obvious from the angle of the gate that its not open fully, and the view ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Booth Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 If you are in a narrowboat sharing a lock with a yogurt pot, you should always go in first. If he hits you it won't do any damage ... Sadly not true when I was hit by a "Yogurt Pot" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Booth Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Can you judge bridgeholes properly? If you can judge a 7' gap okay, there is no reason not to judge a 14'+ gap okay. If the gates don't open fully, it will be obvious from the angle of the gate that its not open fully, and the view ahead. It needs the two steerers to judge the gap, safer to go in one at a time. I don't see the advantage of risking a problem. I learnt this the hard way by getting stuck in a lock with another boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 It needs the two steerers to judge the gap, safer to go in one at a time. I don't see the advantage of risking a problem. I learnt this the hard way by getting stuck in a lock with another boat. The advantage is its MUCH quicker, which makes a good difference on a flight of locks. By going in one at a time, the first boat has to stop then deal with getting the boat to the side, which takes time. Even if its done efficiently, its slower and more effort. So an even more efficient way of working is to put both boats in simultaneously. I accept its not for everyone though. If you got stuck in the past, then you must have misjudged the width available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGoat Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 For us, getting two boats to go in together invariably doesn't work. Either one pushes ahead - ignoring the other, or the one on the offside sticks on a bit of mud... My Management prefers not / refuses to drive the boat - however she positively relishes working a flight breasted up and driving the pair - which she does with aplomb and great expertise. Funny innit?? Keeps my conscience clear - as I feel I should be always be doing the hard stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 For us, getting two boats to go in together invariably doesn't work. Either one pushes ahead - ignoring the other, or the one on the offside sticks on a bit of mud... How many times have you tried it? My percentage rate of success is 100%, but admittedly it was one occasion (lots of locks though) ascending the Hatton flight. I guess it depends upon the particular waterway and being able to trust the other boater too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuthound Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Sadly not true when I was hit by a "Yogurt Pot" The point is that a steel boat hitting a yogurt pot can damage it, whereas the yogurt pot hitting a steel boat usually causes no damage (unless the pulpit rail goes through a window ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tagulablue Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 How exactly? Keith ask the guy who told us to go out first and then promptly set of out of the lock at the same time..result two boats jammed in lock gate because he had left thick fenders dangling... why tell us to go first and then do that ... we weren't in a rush we didn't mind waiting...would have been quicker than spending half an hour trying to dislodge his fenders! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twbm Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 (edited) I suppose it depends where you are. Edited April 18, 2016 by twbm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUMPY Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 There is no way of telling if the lock you are entering is a bit narrower that other locks, plus the gates might not open fully due to a blockage. The safe way is to open one gate, the boat goes in and sits behind the closed gate (person on lock holding its rope). The next boat goes in and can't hit the boat due to the gate protecting it.Sadly this is what causes wear on bottom gates causing them to leak! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Booth Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 The advantage is its MUCH quicker, which makes a good difference on a flight of locks. By going in one at a time, the first boat has to stop then deal with getting the boat to the side, which takes time. Even if its done efficiently, its slower and more effort. So an even more efficient way of working is to put both boats in simultaneously. I accept its not for everyone though. If you got stuck in the past, then you must have misjudged the width available. I agree it is quicker to both go in at the same time, but not safer. I now go for the safer option. The point is that a steel boat hitting a yogurt pot can damage it, whereas the yogurt pot hitting a steel boat usually causes no damage (unless the pulpit rail goes through a window ) The whole idea of a steel boat going into a lock after the yogurt pot is to smash it up. (I am joking) Sadly this is what causes wear on bottom gates causing them to leak! Only if the boat hits it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 You could choose the side that your prop walk takes you to, which would put the stern against the side without ropes Richard No, the issue is not prop walk. It is something I never noticed when we used my mate's boat for many years, short swims, draft under 2'. Telemachus has a deeper draft, bigger prop, long swims and excellent stopping power. When you hit reverse a great woosh of water comes forward and is deflected out by the swim. It makes you sway on your feet if you're not expecting it. All of which is good until you try to come alongside a wall / piling etc. Within a couple of seconds of reverse it is off like a shot away from the wall/bank. So for coming in to the side to moor one has to be careful not to end up on the opposite bank. Once 20 tonnes of Mr Hudson's finest decides it is going to go over there, you have to pull on the ropes you have hopefully got ashore in time very hard and for a very long time to dissuade it and for quite a while after neutral has been selected you can still see the water circulation pushing the boat away. IMO prop walk in reverse is mostly a result of ventilation in low-draft boats. Our boat will reverse a long way in deep water absolutely straight. It is only the proximity of shallows / wall / bank etc that can make reversing difficult. So the technique I have to use it to approach the bank at a sharp angle, just before impact apply lots of rudder to swing the back in (which is fortunately very effective) to build up lateral momentum at the back so that when I hit reverse the momentum keeps the boat from moving away again. The boat can then be brought nicely to a stop parallel and within inches of the bank with zero lateral movement. But even then unless you get the ropes ashore and tie hold/tie it quickly, it will be off over the other side due to the persisting water circulation! You blotting-paper floaters don't know the fun you miss! I agree it is quicker to both go in at the same time, but not safer. I now go for the safer option. I wonder how many people have died / boats sunk from choosing the unsafe option of both going in together? 1/ You can go in separately, it is slow and inefficient and more workload 2/ You can go in together or nearly so, it is much faster, more efficient, less workload and as a result, satisfying. That presumes of course that the drivers know what they are doing. If not you have to choose 1/ but given the choice I will always take 2/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Booth Posted April 23, 2016 Report Share Posted April 23, 2016 I wonder how many people have died / boats sunk from choosing the unsafe option of both going in together? One would be one too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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