Widewater Lock - boat sunk 18/1 [Was Denham Deep]

[DHutch]

I would be getting up asap and getting the stove going.

 

A lot of things will tolerate a quick dunk but very few manufactured boards or even foam insulation will take 48hours under water.

 

 

Daniel

[DHutch]

*Title altered.

[GoodGurl]

The boat is floating and the lock is clear. pictures of the recovery are here.

https://www.facebook.com/River-Canal-Rescue-360550173965172/

 

[Graham Davis]

And the person who owns the boat has been complaining about the pictures being shown and has asked for them to be removed, as RCR have done, although another FB page have left them up.

[David Mack]

The boat is floating and the lock is clear. pictures of the recovery are here.

https://www.facebook.com/River-Canal-Rescue-360550173965172/

 

No pictures now. The owner threw a wobbly and they have been removed.

[Dekazer]

Still up on the London Boaters page. Looks like a fairly straightforward cilling and refloat to me. Poor owner though, horrible experience and made even worse by the temperature at the moment

[Athy]

There are pictures of a boat being refloated, a green one, but it's not in a lock. I hope it's a different boat - it would be awful if they had refloated it and it then sank again.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Athy

[alan_fincher]

There are also pictures of a boat being refloated in what is saId to be Waltham Cross Lock.

I assume that is current, but not sure I have seen it on here.

Same deal - back end well on cill, front end under.

EDIT:

No is seems the pictures on the London Boaters page are after all of Harefield, despite being suggested as being Waltham Cross.

 

You can see they are Grand Union gates, not River Lee ones.

 

Apparently the owner has been getting any posted pictures taken down, but these seem to have escaped her net so far.

 

I wonder how much more informaton I can post in good faith today that subsequently proves to be wrong ()

Edited January 20, 2016 by alan_fincher

[blackrose]

How does this actually happen? Presumably the owner knows about cills? I wonder if the boat slid back while the owner was busy working the lock single-handed and she didn't notice?

 

 

If the lock was simply refilled from this position I guess the boat would sink?

Edited January 21, 2016 by blackrose

[MtB]

How does this actually happen? Presumably the owner knows about cills? I wonder if the boat slid back while the owner was busy working the lock single-handed and she didn't notice?

 

 

I see it the other way around. The evidence suggests to me she had no idea about the risk of cilling or more accurately, the consequences, or she'd have been careful not to let it happen.

 

 

 

 

If the lock was simply refilled from this position I guess the boat would sink?

 

 

I always find myself thinking this too. There is probably a couple of tones of water in the bow as it lies in the photo, which I think would re-distribute itself more evenly along the length of the boat if the lock were re-filled quickly enough and the boat would float. Just.

 

Fill the lock slowly though and water would just leak in through the gaps around the doors, air vents etc and the boat would stay in the same position, just under more water!

[OldGoat]

How does this actually happen? Presumably the owner knows about cills? I wonder if the boat slid back while the owner was busy working the lock single-handed and she didn't notice?

 

 

I did it twice many years ago on that stretch, put a forward or centre line up with a bit of slack and went to the next lock or looked ahead. Returned to find the stern up and lots of vapour out of the exhaust (fresh water cooled).

The cills on the GU are very long, so it's easy for a boat to drift back - even when you're careful.

[zenataomm]

 

How does this actually happen? Presumably the owner knows about cills? I wonder if the boat slid back while the owner was busy working the lock single-handed and she didn't notice?

 

 

I did it twice many years ago on that stretch, put a forward or centre line up with a bit of slack and went to the next lock or looked ahead. Returned to find the stern up and lots of vapour out of the exhaust (fresh water cooled).

The cills on the GU are very long, so it's easy for a boat to drift back - even when you're careful.

 

 

You didn't learn after the first time?

[Scholar Gypsy]

How does this actually happen? Presumably the owner knows about cills? I wonder if the boat slid back while the owner was busy working the lock single-handed and she didn't notice?

 

 

If the lock was simply refilled from this position I guess the boat would sink?

 

Yes it probably would - the front deck drains are under the water, as is the upstand at the bottom of the front doors.

 

One could try blocking the drains, and baling out all the water inside the boat. Once you've done that, then refilling the lock should work, and get the front deck vents above the water line. I think I would prefer to call RCR, if the boat was stable.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Scholar Gypsy

[OldGoat]

 

You didn't learn after the first time?

No I didn't !!!

Cocky boater, rushing through locks, perhaps pulling the boat nearer the bottom gate on the next lock - still not good enough...

Happens

What impressed me was that the skeg (? term) was solid enough to support some of the weight of the boat without bending. Probably the difference between a builder who had years of experience in making hulls solid enough for idiot customers and one who - umm - doesn't.

[Markinaboat]

Didn't any of you play with boats and soap dishes in the bath as a kid? Or maybe still do?

The bow was completely under water so wasn't possible to bale out as the boat was no longer buoyant! You'd have to shore up with timber to separate the cockpit from the water, not easy with a curved shape. I think they use inflatable tanks strapped to/under the bow to get the gunwhale just above the water line when they can then use submersible pumps (typo was pimps) in the boat. Once she becomes buoyant they would gradually fill the lock and voila! A crane is also an expensive option but they usually have access requirements.

 

Fatigue, poor weather conditions/cold/visibility and stress from other occurrences lead to mistakes.

 

Re post 36 above - I never, EVER, leave my boat unattended in a lock that is either emptying or filling. If I had to, I would close the paddles and halt the process. When tired, I usually only open the paddle/s on the side that the boat is lashed to unless of course it's a leaky lock when I have no option. That way I can respond quickly to any situation without having to cross the lock.

 

Rant over!

[Scholar Gypsy]

Didn't any of you play with boats and soap dishes in the bath as a kid? Or maybe still do?

The bow was completely under water so wasn't possible to bale out as the boat was no longer buoyant! You'd have to shore up with timber to separate the cockpit from the water, not easy with a curved shape. I think they use inflatable tanks strapped to/under the bow to get the gunwhale just above the water line when they can then use submersible pumps (typo was pimps) in the boat. Once she becomes buoyant they would gradually fill the lock and voila! A crane is also an expensive option but they usually have access requirements.

 

Fatigue, poor weather conditions/cold/visibility and stress from other occurrences lead to mistakes.

 

Re post 36 above - I never, EVER, leave my boat unattended in a lock that is either emptying or filling. If I had to, I would close the paddles and halt the process. When tired, I usually only open the paddle/s on the side that the boat is lashed to unless of course it's a leaky lock when I have no option. That way I can respond quickly to any situation without having to cross the lock.

 

Rant over!

 

Oops, yes I have looked at the photo again, I had thought the gunwales were still proud of the water, but they are not. One could try and block off the cabin door, and pump/bale out the cabin, but that may not give you enough buoyancy.

[14skipper]

Owner complained to RCR after they recovered boat,about them publishing photos of recoverer from lock,RCR have now taken them down.

 

What is it they say about not shooting the messenger !

[mark99]

Owner complained to RCR after they recovered boat,about them publishing photos of recoverer from lock,RCR have now taken them down.

 

What is it they say about not shooting the messenger !

 

I thought about that too but it is an emotional time......... I'd cut her some slack. After all the RCR facebook page is a bit over the top "look at us" imo. Well yes you're getting rewarded, how about the boat owners situation Mr RCR facebook man. It could be seen as did you not notice before you stepped on their world to place your publicity online?

Edited January 21, 2016 by mark99

[GoodGurl]

Here is all the information you need, First post is the owner of the boat, Second post is the accused, There has been mention of solicitors. Names have been removed incase of court action.

.

The owner

So given the extent and degree of speculation as to my accident. I am going to make a statement about it. I have no intention of doing son on other groups but if any one wishes to forward it then that is fine.
On Sunday evening as it was becoming dark, I had one lock left to do before I was at my destination. On the approach to the lock I was blinded by a flood light; I assumed was a misdirected light from a car park or stadia. I slowed and progressed gingerly, I could not see a thing apart from that which was coming up immediately on my right. As I got closer to the light I held it behind the wood on my roof, it was so bright it literally blinded me and it hurt my eyes. Suddenly I was hit off my bow, it was not terrible but it was enough to give me a jolt and and leave me in shock and it could have been a head on collision there was a wide beam in front with a flood light on the front and speeding. It could not have occurred to me that a boat would have such a stupid light to blind all on coming traffic. At this point the four occupants on board started to all shout abuse at me. I told them they had blinded me and to turn out their light, I doubt they listened.
I then tried to moor at the lock mooring but another boater had decided that it was a good place to spend the night so I couldn't pull in; I then noticed that the the brand new Dutch wide beam with its four occupants had not bothered to close the gates.
Of course I went straight into the lock, when I should have stopped and calmed down. I closed both gates and dropped a paddle also left open, my heart was racing and my eyes had not readjusted for the dark again so I wasn't seeing properly. I pulled her over to the left and thought I'd put a good enough stop on the rope. I then went to open the paddles to let the water down. I was fuming and still a bit in shock, telling myself how I was going to ring CRT and have then stopped.
It all happened so quickly! That is one of the fasted emptying locks I have witnessed, she must have drifted back while I was ranting at them inside my head. I looked up and it was all over.
I have done 400 canal miles or something and probably a similar number of locks. But it is the one that counts!
I know many people have been supportive of me and I am aware of the shits on other groups. I am going to stay away from it all as this was of course a very shocking and distressing experience for me, not to mention the loss of my goods and the damage to my property.

.

=====================================================================================================================

.

The Accused

So given the extent and degree of speculation as to my blame for the sinking of the narrowboat in Widewater Lock (No. 86) on the Grand Union canal on the evening of the 17th of January 2016 I thought I would chime in with my version of events.

Firstly I would like to extend my sincere condolences towards ****, it is a horrible thing that has happened to you, and it brings a tear to my eye whenever I see someone lose their home on the water.

On to the event in question: I was leaving Widewater Lock, heading north on Sunday and saw an incandescent tunnel light approaching in the distance, and our party decided to leave the top gates open to ease the entry of the boat that was approaching as we left.
As I continued upstream I manoeuvred over to the starboard side of the river and noticed that the boat approaching me had quite some throttle on and was making on me quite fast. I sounded my ships horn one short blast to indicate that I was passing to her port side. The boat was traversing towards me on it's port side, more than 3/4 of the way across the river. At this point I took my boat out of gear to slow the speed of the situation, waited 20 seconds and sounded my horn once again to indicate passing port to port. The boat approaching seemed to be aiming directly at the bow of my boat and was showing no signs of slowing or diverting course. As I realised that a collision was imminent I sounded my horn with 5 shrot blasts to indicate that I was unaware of the oncoming boat's intentions and that I believe they were not doing all in their power to avoid a collision. As the boat was at about 40ft and closing fast, at the last minute I applied a good bit of power, turned hard to starboard and my boat heeled over and I managed to avoid a head on collision with my bow shooting over past hers. As I traversed over to starboard the narrow-boat appeared to apply no corrective control on the rudder, and proceeded to impact the side of my boat with what seemed like the stern of the gunwales (at the time I was actually unaware of the collision, it was so slight).
After the slight impact, I let the lady aboard know that she has almost caused a head on collision due to being on the wrong side of the river and being totally unresponsive to horn signals, there was no abuse directed at her, just some raised voices due to the adrenaline of the situation.

On the stern deck alongside me were two incredibly experienced skippers, one of whom has just completed 700 miles of navigation around the canal network in the last few months, and another with extensive coastal skippering experience alongside inland water cruising. The situation is incredibly unfortunate for ****, and I feel for her loss, but to try and insinuate any blame whatsoever on my part for the sinking of her boat is frankly quite upsetting.

Anyway, I just thought that I would put my side of the story out there.
**** if you would like to meet up to discuss things further please send me a message and we can go for a pint or a cuppa.

[steven wilkinson]

as they say - two sides to every story

[GoodGurl]

as they say - two sides to every story

seems so.

[MtB]

Does anyone else find blaming a boat previously coming the other way with its tunnel lamp on for the sinking, a bit bonkers and unreasonable?

[johnmck]

Does anyone else find blaming a boat previously coming the other way with its tunnel lamp on for the sinking, a bit bonkers and unreasonable?

yep. Me.

[MtB]

When it's obviously CRT's fault, for putting the cill in the wrong place...

And making the lock empty so quickly.

[johnmck]

I reckon a ninja volocky nipped out of hiding and raised a paddle.

 

(Still sorry for the lady. Awful thing to happen whatever the cause)