Widewater Lock - boat sunk 18/1 [Was Denham Deep]

[MtB]

Me too.

 

But she sure seems hellbent on hanging the blame on someone else for her sinking her boat.

[David Mack]

Does anyone else find blaming a boat previously coming the other way with its tunnel lamp on for the sinking, a bit bonkers and unreasonable?

 

Yup.

 

Surely one of the first rules of boating is that no matter what else may be going on, and no matter how much the actions of others might have upset you, when going down in a lock your one priority over anything else is to ensure the boat is clear of the cill. Someone with 400 miles/locks experience really ought to know that.

 

And secondly, boating after dark is great, but it does mean that you have to be extra careful, as you may not always be able to see what is going on at the other end of the lock. Singlehanders need to be particularly careful, because any slip could see you in the water with nobody about to even see your plight, let alone help with rescue.

[Graham Davis]

Does anyone else find blaming a boat previously coming the other way with its tunnel lamp on for the sinking, a bit bonkers and unreasonable?

 

Yes, but it seems to be typical; always find someone else to blame.

[patty-ann]

Maybe she's very upset and stressed and cannot see events clearly..she had an awful shock...I wouldn't go into a lock when its getting dark but clearly she thought she could manage.

I wonder why she was in such a hurry that it couldn't wait another day...

[GoodGurl]

Maybe she's very upset and stressed and cannot see events clearly..she had an awful shock...I wouldn't go into a lock when its getting dark but clearly she thought she could manage.

I wonder why she was in such a hurry that it couldn't wait another day...

she was trying to get through before the next stoppage

[Scholar Gypsy]

The comments and postings above do prompt me to reflect that navigation lights can be useful; they are not bright, as they about being seen rather than seeing.

[Sbg]

Does anyone else find blaming a boat previously coming the other way with its tunnel lamp on for the sinking, a bit bonkers and unreasonable?

Indeed. In aircraft accident investigations there are a number of types of 'factor' that are considered; in this case (at best) the meeting wih the other boat would considered a 'contributary factor' i.e. relevant to the state of mind of the operator or the condition of the vessel, but not a 'causal factor'. The cause, as the lady admits, was inattention to the boat's position in the lock, resulting in the boat being left on the cill with resultant sinking.

[Tony Dunkley]

The only part of the owner's account of what happened that makes any sense are the remarks about being blinded by an unnecessarily bright headlamp on the boat that had just come up the lock.

 

The rest of the account is pointless and irrelevant, and serves only to demonstrate that the owner of this particular boat is just as incompetent and inattentive as are the majority of today's new breed of so-called boaters. Of these two potentially disastrous characteristics, by far the most serious is the dreamlike lack of awareness shared by so many whilst indulging in their, apparently, over relaxing pastime.

On most occasions when incompetence and inattentiveness combine to create a major problem, good fortune steps in, and then all is well again, but if one or the other of these factors is taken out of the equation, the the potentially disastrous consequences of the other one are considerably diminished.

Given the abysmal boating skills and ability of so many in charge of pleasure craft these days on our rivers and canals, I think widespread incompetence is inevitable and inescapable. Inattentiveness, or carelessness, however, is something which can and should be tackled, and those best placed to do that are the Insurance companies, and, of course, their competent and attentive customers.

If Insurance were to become either unobtainable or prohibitively expensive for those with a history of incidents such as this, then I'm sure that would quickly bring about a dramatic reduction in the numbers of sinkings now occurring almost as a matter of routine.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Tony Dunkley

[mayalld]

The only part of the owner's account of what happened that makes any sense are the remarks about being blinded by an unnecessarily bright headlamp on the boat that had just come up the lock.

 

The rest of the account is pointless and irrelevant, and serves only to demonstrate that the owner of this particular boat is just as incompetent and inattentive as are the majority of today's new breed of so-called boaters. Of these two potentially disastrous characteristics, by far the most serious is the dreamlike lack of awareness shared by so many whilst indulging in their, apparently, over relaxing pastime.

On most occasions when incompetence and inattentiveness combine to create a major problem, good fortune steps in, and then all is well again, but if one or the other of these factors is taken out of the equation, the the potentially disastrous consequences of the other one are considerably diminished.

Given the abysmal boating skills and ability of so many in charge of pleasure craft these days on our rivers and canals, I think widespread incompetence is inevitable and inescapable. Inattentiveness, or carelessness, however, is something which can and should be tackled, and those best placed to do that are the Insurance companies, and, of course, their competent and attentive customers.

If Insurance were to become either unobtainable or prohibitively expensive for those with a history of incidents such as this, then I'm sure that would quickly bring about a dramatic reduction in the numbers of sinkings now occurring almost as a matter of routine.

 

It isn't often that I agree with Tony, but on this occasion I do.

 

Yes, a misaimed headlight can be a PITA, but to attribute blame thus is very silly indeed!

 

Reading the two accounts, firstly they relate to something that happened away from the lock, and can have no bearing on what happened in the lock. if the first incident unsettled the owner of the boat that sank, then she should have got her wits together before continuing.

 

However, to look at the initial incident. both appear to suggest that the other boater was going a bit fast, which isn't particularly relevant, as it doesn't seem to be a factor.

 

The accused describes seeing another boat approaching, apparently making no attempt to get out of the way, taking avoiding action and striking a glancing blow.

 

The accuser describes being blinded by the light of the approaching boat, but crucially does not claim to have taken any avoiding action herself, and describes a more severe blow.

 

Whilst I can believe that the light was misaimed and made life difficult for the accuser, I am having a lot of difficultly accepting that the effects (physical pain?!) were as severe as claimed, and I have to conclude that exaggeration there suggests that there may also be exaggeration about the impact.

 

So, it would appear that faced by an inconvenient light in her face, the accuser (for reasons best known to herself, perhaps a disinclination to make life easy for somebody with such an irritating light) didn't take any action to move away from the centreline. The other boat took what possible action he could and a moderate impact occurred. Raised voices ensued, attributing blame for the collision, and the boats moved on.

 

The accuser then made an error of judgement in the next lock, and instead of saying "I screwed up" seeks to find somebody to blame for her predicament.

[Markinaboat]

The comments and postings above do prompt me to reflect that navigation lights can be useful; they are not bright, as they about being seen rather than seeing.

Tunnel lights only should be used. They throw a ring of light outwards rather than a focused beam ahead. From experience, it seems that many do not know what they've got or the difference.

she was trying to get through before the next stoppage

I wasn't aware of any stoppages from Widewater to Norwood top lock at Southall?

[Tam & Di]

 

It isn't often that I agree with Tony, but on this occasion I do.

 

Yes, a misaimed headlight can be a PITA, but to attribute blame thus is very silly indeed!

 

Tony has it spot on. It is interesting too that the boater travelling uphill saw another boat approaching and left the gates open for it. The one travelling downhill did not register any other boat until it was right on top of her. She appears to have been in the wrong position on account of this.

 

I do appreciate that something like this could leave you very unsettled, but it hardly caused her boat to fetch up on the cill. 400 miles (100+ hours) is not really a lot of experience - it just at the stage where people think they know everything and start telling others how to go on. If you must work a boat in the dark in a lock on your own you do have to be particular aware of what you are doing.

 

Hopefully her boat will not be in too much of a mess and she will be able to get on with her life. The suggestion of solicitors becoming involved doesn't bode well.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Tam & Di

[alan_fincher]

 

Hopefully her boat will not be in too much of a mess and she will be able to get on with her life. The suggestion of solicitors becoming involved doesn't bode well.

 

 

"Have you had an accident that WAS your fault? - Call 071-123-5678, now, to discuss with our specialist advisors"

 

Edited January 22, 2016 by alan_fincher

[bottle]

Accidents do not exist.

 

 

There is always a cause.

[Tam & Di]

The poor woman has obviously had (and is still having) a hard time and does not really need a lot of aggro from others, but I hope one thing she will take out of this is the need to develop locking techniques which make it virtually impossible for her boat to sit on the cill. It doesn't look to be much more than about 40' or so which gives a lot of room to play with. We all of us do stupid things at times, but if working a lock safely has become so subconcious and automatic it is far less likely to lead to disaster. As car drivers we can all (well, most of us) drive from London to Birmingham and not recall anything of the journey - our brain only switches on when something unexpected happens like someone pulling out directly in front. With experience the same happens with boating - the brain only switches on when something happens that breaks the pattern it expects.

 

On the issue of lights, I would have flashed my own light if the on-coming craft was dazzling me. In fact I would normally not have been travelling with any light there unless it was a particularly dark moonless night, but would have put it on briefly when I saw an oncoming vessel to make sure they knew I was there.

 

Tam

[ditchcrawler]

 

 

On the issue of lights, I would have flashed my own light if the on-coming craft was dazzling me. In fact I would normally not have been travelling with any light there unless it was a particularly dark moonless night, but would have put it on briefly when I saw an oncoming vessel to make sure they knew I was there.

 

Tam

Lots of people seem to need 100 Watts on the front of their boats these days, some 2

[mayalld]

The poor woman has obviously had (and is still having) a hard time and does not really need a lot of aggro from others,

 

Hmm, let me choose my words with care here!

 

Those who ever venture onto Facebook will probably be very aware of the identity of the owner of the sunken boat, and equally aware that the vast majority of facebook groups have already called a halt to discussion of the sinking, because it has proved to be an extremely controversial subject, in large part because the owner is a controversial figure. The only places where discussion seems to be ongoing is here and a facebook group where the owner is the sole admin.

 

She is clearly having a hard time of it, but sadly it would appear that of late, she has made rather a habit of claiming to be the victim of all manner of improper treatment at the hands of what would appear to be reputable businesses.

 

For some people, there is always somebody else to blame.

[Graham Davis]

 

Hmm, let me choose my words with care here!

 

Those who ever venture onto Facebook will probably be very aware of the identity of the owner of the sunken boat, and equally aware that the vast majority of facebook groups have already called a halt to discussion of the sinking, because it has proved to be an extremely controversial subject, in large part because the owner is a controversial figure. The only places where discussion seems to be ongoing is here and a facebook group where the owner is the sole admin.

 

She is clearly having a hard time of it, but sadly it would appear that of late, she has made rather a habit of claiming to be the victim of all manner of improper treatment at the hands of what would appear to be reputable businesses.

 

For some people, there is always somebody else to blame.

 

Exactly Dave. (green thing)

 

This "lady" has plenty of history and has been banned from lots of FB pages, and a few Forums. She has asked for advice in the past, has then argued about that advice, and has often been extremely rude and aggressive against those that disagree with her.

I'm sorry she has damaged her boat, but by the sounds of it it was totally her fault.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Graham Davis

[MtB]

 

Exactly Dave. (green thing)

 

This "lady" has plenty of history and has been banned from lots of FB pages, and a few Forums. She has asked for advice in the past, has then argued about that advice, and has often been extremely rude and aggressive against those that disagree with her.

I'm sorry she has damaged her boat, but by the sounds of it it was totally her fault.

 

 

 

Do you mean here on CWF?

[mayalld]

 

 

 

Do you mean here on CWF?

 

I don't believe that she has ever been a member of this august forum.

 

She is extremely active on Facebook, and has a notoriety that extends beyond boating circles

[Markinaboat]

Accidents do not exist.

 

 

There is always a cause.

"A safe passage is no accident"

[bottle]

and the cause of a safe passage is...

[WotEver]

and the cause of a safe passage is...

No piles.

[GoodGurl]

Tunnel lights only should be used. They throw a ring of light outwards rather than a focused beam ahead. From experience, it seems that many do not know what they've got or the difference.

 

I wasn't aware of any stoppages from Widewater to Norwood top lock at Southall?

sorry i wouldn't know about any stoppages i'm nowhere near the GU, i was just stating what she had said.

[MtB]

 

I don't believe that she has ever been a member of this august forum.

 

She is extremely active on Facebook, and has a notoriety that extends beyond boating circles

 

 

Oh you're being very coy about this. Who is it? Sarah Palin?!

[Tuscan]

I believe she started a live aboard Facebook site as those of us that don't are just Numpties. I hope she was insured as its a terrible thing to happen whatever the reason.