Don't slow down use spring lines, it's official

[Alan de Enfield]

............. pass moored boats like they are made of glass"

 

A lot of them are.

In fact, I would hazard a guess that there are more 'private pleasure' glass boats than there are steel ones.

[Scholar Gypsy]

We just use 2 short ropes at the bow, 45 deg (ish) to the bank, and one at the stern straight to the bank.

 

Our boat never moves.

 

 

I agree - especially when the canal is a bit shallow and you can't get the stern right into the bank. Here we are the following night

 

[Scholar Gypsy]

 

...And you only tripped over the spring 27 times?

 

No, we got on and off through the side hatch. I was rather careful the following morning though, when we set off at 0430 in the pitch dark.

[howardang]

It is interesting when people take what they want to see from an article.

 

I certainly do not see this as an official statement about it being OK to speed by and folk need to use spring lines.

 

It is about encouraging people to tie correctly up to minimise boat movement but it also says that we are responsible for passing with care for the moored boats but when we moor we should do so better and ends with this

 

“Maybe we need to give a little more thought to those moorings and see avoiding a moored boat surging along the bank as a shared responsibility – we all slow to reduce backwash and we all moor safe and securely.”

 

Which seems to me to confirm what older and more experienced boatman have said i.e. "Moor your boat like there will be a storm and pass moored boats like they are made of glass"

 

When I first read this article on another site I too did not take it as an official CRT recommendation, but rather as good advice from an experienced seafarer and boat owner which, if followed, would avoid many of the unnecessary calls to "Slow Down" when the real cause of a boat moving is quite often caused by incorrect mooring. You could say that it's another example of putting the principles of good seamanship into practice - something which is quite often missing on the inland waterways IMHO. (Ducks and waits for the incoming flak!)

 

Howard

[Loafer]

 

I agree - especially when the canal is a bit shallow and you can't get the stern right into the bank. Here we are the following night

 

 

 

That looks just like most of our mooring sites. Repel boarders!

[blackrose]

It doesn't just depend on the "backwash" of the moving boat as the article says, it also depends on its displacement. At 32 tonnes my boat shifts 32m3 of water (or 32 tonnes of water) every boat length it moves. I therefore need to slow down in shallow water passing moored boats whether they are moored with springs or not. But it obviously does help if they are moored properly.

Edited December 9, 2015 by blackrose

[Loafer]

It doesn't just depend on the "backwash" of the moving boat the article says, it also depends on its displacement. At 32 tonnes my boat shifts 32m3 of water or 32 tonnes every boat lengtht it moves. I therefore need to slow down in shallow water passing moored boats whether they are moored with springs or not. But it obviously does help if they are moored properly.

 

Fo sho, dude.

 

What annoys me though, is those prats that think it's all about wave action, or leaving a breaking wake. The NUMBER of blank looks I get, when trying to explain displacement of water, dragging it from under other boats, an' that. REALLY.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Loafer

[MtB]

 

Fo sho, dude.

 

What annoys me though, is those prats that think it's all about wave action, or leaving a breaking wake. The NUMBER of blank looks I get, when trying to explain displacement of water, dragging it from under other boats, an' that. REALLY.

 

 

Yes my experience too.

 

I'd say that three out of four boaters don't have the faintest idea that the water level falls two or three inches as they pass by, then returns to normal after their passing.

[Phil Ambrose]

Do you not think there is a big difference between the broads and the canals. i.e. width of navigation and depth which have a massive effect on what happens when a boat speeds past a moored boat .

Remember the term Broads refers to an area of both wide and narrow rivers with what can best be referred to as lakes off these rivers the lakes (Broads) are old pit diggings which have flooded they are not particularly deep, likewise the rivers. Also remember that many members of the forum boat on rivers, in fact I've never been on a canal in mu life but still need to moor up sensibly, where we are now the speed limit is 7mph so springs are useful.

?

Phil

[MtB]

Remember the term Broads refers to an area of both wide and narrow rivers with what can best be referred to as lakes off these rivers the lakes (Broads) are old pit diggings which have flooded they are not particularly deep, likewise the rivers. Also remember that many members of the forum boat on rivers, in fact I've never been on a canal in mu life but still need to moor up sensibly, where we are now the speed limit is 7mph so springs are useful.

 

Phil

 

 

 

ISTR the lake bits of the Broads are peat diggings rather than pit diggings, and are in general dug to depth of about 6ft.

(I.e. far deeper than the canals system in general.)

[DHutch]

About time!

My thoughts exactly!

 

 

I totally agree with the springer lines BUT lots of mooring rings around the system do not allow them to be used because of varying distance of spacing of said rings.

Fiddle sticks. In short.

- In fact if the spacing is a bit off, I am MORE likely to use springs to suitable moor the boat.

 

You can use springs to tie to awkwardly spaced rings/bollards.....

Exactly!

 

 

I've never understood the use of centre or roof lines when mooring...

No, it is as far as I am aware only done in ignorance, but has then become common enough that so many people do it, people start to copy. I also understand a lot of hire companies instruct boats to use the three lines, and supply three stakes, etc etc!

 

That said, I often or in fact nearly always take out centerline down to the fore or aft mooring pin as a spring, using a spare rope for the opersite spring if I want a second spring. Might not work on a shorter or lighter boat, but EmilyAnne quite deep with a slightly squater cabin and at 58ft the angles are fine enough that it the forces extert no noticable roll and instead work to arest fore-aft motion and hence prevent roll when the fore and aft lines come tight, becuase they dont.

 

 

I don't understand how you keep ropes tight. Mine seem to stretch and tighten with the weather and particularly with rain.

One of the things to do it to use springs!

- Because the spring is much longer you can put an amount of pre-tension on it.

- Because it works to stop the boat surging around, it takes strain off the other lines, and doesnt loosen the pins so much.

- But also because it has enough stretch that even when is has got a be loose, it still arrests the movement slowly so its not an issue.

 

 

 

 

 

We just use 2 short ropes at the bow, 45 deg (ish) to the bank, and one at the stern straight to the bank. Our boat never moves.

 

Long springs are useful with a varying tide height, against a fixed harbour wall, but not really necessary on a floating pontoon or a canal bank. IMHO.

I agree - especially when the canal is a bit shallow and you can't get the stern right into the bank. Here we are the following night

 

Yes.

 

What I normally do as my generic solution is bow and stern lines out at 45degree, and then the centerline tied back to same stake as either the bow or sternline.

 

This works really well, the lines at the end hold the boat in and the single spring holds the boat towards the direction its pulling (even if loose, due to self weight and the fact its come from the roof), and is long enough to cushion movement the other way. The line next to the spring tends to become more like 60-70deg to the bank but thats also fine. It also makes the centerline look used, rather than like 60ft of 22mm rope left lying on a roof!!

 

If we are 1 foot or so out on the silt, I put a second spring on the otherway which improves it further again and allowed for the expectation that the boat is going to come in 6-8inches as the silt moves around over the next 5 or 12 days. Bloody weekenders.....

 

 

Daniel

[gazza]

My thoughts exactly!

 

 

Fiddle sticks. In short.

- In fact if the spacing is a bit off, I am MORE likely to use springs to suitable moor the boat.

 

 

No, it is as far as I am aware only done in ignorance, but has then become common enough that so many people do it, people start to copy. I also understand a lot of hire companies instruct boats to use the three lines, and supply three stakes, etc etc!

 

That said, I often or in fact nearly always take out centerline down to the fore or aft mooring pin as a spring, using a spare rope for the opersite spring if I want a second spring. Might not work on a shorter or lighter boat, but EmilyAnne quite deep with a slightly squater cabin and at 58ft the angles are fine enough that it the forces extert no noticable roll and instead work to arest fore-aft motion and hence prevent roll when the fore and aft lines come tight, becuase they dont.

 

 

One of the things to do it to use springs!

- Because the spring is much longer you can put an amount of pre-tension on it.

- Because it works to stop the boat surging around, it takes strain off the other lines, and doesnt loosen the pins so much.

- But also because it has enough stretch that even when is has got a be loose, it still arrests the movement slowly so its not an issue.

 

 

 

 

Yes.

 

What I normally do as my generic solution is bow and stern lines out at 45degree, and then the centerline tied back to same stake as either the bow or sternline.

 

This works really well, the lines at the end hold the boat in and the single spring holds the boat towards the direction its pulling (even if loose, due to self weight and the fact its come from the roof), and is long enough to cushion movement the other way. The line next to the spring tends to become more like 60-70deg to the bank but thats also fine. It also makes the centerline look used, rather than like 60ft of 22mm rope left lying on a roof!!

 

If we are 1 foot or so out on the silt, I put a second spring on the otherway which improves it further again and allowed for the expectation that the boat is going to come in 6-8inches as the silt moves around over the next 5 or 12 days. Bloody weekenders.....

 

 

Daniel

Daniel, we agree.... I replied to the following.

 

 

b0atman said:-

 

I totally agree with the springer lines BUT lots of mooring rings around the system do not allow them to be used because of varying distance of spacing of said rings.

 

A spring is, as you say, ideally suited to the situation above.

 

I had a rather unfortunate run in with a pensioner outside the 5,miles from anywhere pub at Upware on the Cam last summer. The ignorant sod had tied up smack bang in the middle of a popular mooring outside the pub as he wanted to use two handy placed rings to tie to rather than using a spring to make room for others.

After a beat of chest beating and mouthing off he did move his boat so we could get in. Sad really, but, that's humans for you!

Edited December 10, 2015 by gazza

[Phil Ambrose]

 

 

 

ISTR the lake bits of the Broads are peat diggings rather than pit diggings, and are in general dug to depth of about 6ft.

 

(I.e. far deeper than the canals system in general.)

Huh, never spotted the fact that spill chucker had struck again, yes peat diggings and 6ft depth is true but the point I was making was that irrespective of where you moor, the use of springs makes good sense though I don't advocate using the centre line, for me this is purely for boat handling seen too many boats tipping over because centre line had been used, in fact in the past week I had to release a widebeam that a newbie had tied his centre line up tight when the level was down and as the level rose due to rain the boat started tipping and ripping up his expensive quay heading (and he had tied bloody great knots!!!). ?

Phil

[Bee]

Boats move, can't do much about that. Tied with a spring helps tremendously, you are affectively triangulating the thing but on a shallow bit of bank the water is pulled out from under the boat, boat sits on bottom and tips, owner opens door / window and yells at passing boat. Solution? Just be aware and live with it, the edges are shallow and you can't do much about it.

[John V]

On the use of centre lines for mooring, there are occasions when it is useful (for me anyway).

Shapfell is a 25 foot narrow beam yoghurt pot. If I get up in the night from my bunk (aft port side) and go to the loo (midships stbd side) because of the bulk being moved in a small vee hull, she rolls. She rolls significantly enough, so that it would disturb anyone sleeping in the fwd cabin. On these occasions I use a centre line, pre-tensioned sufficiently to apply a slight list to port. This means that when I get up in the night the boat does not precipitously gain a starboard list !!!

 

(obviously NOT when there is a likelihood of big changes in level through the night)

[b0atman]

We just use 2 short ropes at the bow, 45 deg (ish) to the bank, and one at the stern straight to the bank.

 

Our boat never moves.

 

Long springs are useful with a varying tide height, against a fixed harbour wall, but not really necessary on a floating pontoon or a canal bank. IMHO.

I do the same but at the stern .A plus point for me is I have brackets welded to the gunnel the centre bracket with a spring clip on allows me to fetch centre line down to gunnel height and use as a springer too.

[jenlyn]

It don't matter how good your springs are on pins, if I go past you at a bit of a chat, your gonna move.

Much easier to slow down.

[Hawkmoth]

It don't matter how good your springs are on pins, if I go past you at a bit of a chat, your gonna move.

Much easier to slow down.

I agree, it's all very well, the theory that is. As Jenlyn says there are many places where pins cannot be made solid and you'll move if someone comes past fast. Please just slow down, but do moor sensibly.

Bob

[Deckscrubber]

A saying I have heard many times is. Canals are not about speed ,If you want to go fast get a Motorhome or caravan.

[Loafer]

Isn't it shame that so few boaters are on this forum? If everyone was, then there would be no speeding, everyone would tie up properly and they'd all know how to sort their electrics.

 

I have yet to meet a THIRD boater who is an active member on here, in 6 years of CC! (I've met 2)

[Tisinca]

Isn't it shame that so few boaters are on this forum? If everyone was, then there would be no speeding, everyone would tie up properly and they'd all know how to sort their electrics.

 

I have yet to meet a THIRD boater who is an active member on here, in 6 years of CC! (I've met 2)

We have met 5 in two and a half years and all have been very friendly. But I do wonder what would happen if some of the more vocal members on here were to meet up . Also there are several on here with boats that don't state a boat name for what ever reason. How about we all wear a badge that says cwdf member ...lol.

[gazza]

Isn't it shame that so few boaters are on this forum? If everyone was, then there would be no speeding, everyone would tie up properly and they'd all know how to sort their electrics.

 

I have yet to meet a THIRD boater who is an active member on here, in 6 years of CC! (I've met 2)

I've met Brian (ditchcrawler) at Whittelsey, Moomin Pappa at Ashton lock, NBFiresprite at Lilford and Nicknorman at Lilford also.

 

I know Alan Buckle outside of the forum (fuel boat bletchley who posts as Ditchdabbler) but failed to wave at Athy on our way thru Upwell in May - will try again in June 2016 when we head for the Ouse for the summer

Edited December 10, 2015 by gazza

[cuthound]

I've met about 20 in 18 months, but I have attended one banter, which accounted for about half of them

[Loafer]

We have met 5 in two and a half years and all have been very friendly. But I do wonder what would happen if some of the more vocal members on here were to meet up . Also there are several on here with boats that don't state a boat name for what ever reason. How about we all wear a badge that says cwdf member ...lol.

 

I'm sure that there are certain combinations which would result in a lot of hair-pulling and scratching.

 

I'm one of those who prefers to remain anonymous, since I don't know who you all are. My nan told me never to trust strange men and never to accept sweeties from them!

 

I DID notice a CWDF sticker on two boats I have passed, but no-one was on board them at the time.

[PaulG]

"The ropes at 45 degrees to the boat (a head line and stern line) such as most boats are tied up to on the cut and are fine in tranquil conditions, will allow the boat to move when another passes if there is any backwash at all."

 

I disagree with this, "Master Mariner" or not.

 

If the head and stern line are tight enough, the boat cannot move. I've proved this point many times when moored in Birmingham where the water bus passes every 15 minutes or so at full chat. If the lines are slack the boat moves. Get them up tight and it doesn't.