Does this get the record for an unfinished project?

[MoominPapa]

Fifteen years old, one owner. Very unfinished.

 

 

http://www.vcmarine.co.uk/boatsnb/raymond.pdf

 

MP.

 

[alan_fincher]

"This boat has been cleared and will be sold as viewed"

 

[John V]

Rebuilding Sabina H is just about 20 years now.........finishing is unlikely in the near future as some of the jobs I did 17 or 18 years ago are now getting tired and require replacing.....

 

 

 

edit to add......I have got a bit further on than that one though

Edited October 7, 2015 by John V

[Laurence Hogg]

I can think of at least two which easily beat that and both are ex working boats.

[Arthur Marshall]

Friend of mine is restoring an old working boat, and has been for the last thirty years. He's just put the alternator on it.

[nb Innisfree]

It once took me 12 years to decorate the hall.

[peterboat]

i like that a bit cheaper and i know someone who might buy it

[cuthound]

Perhaps then original owner bought it as an investment? You know like people who buy expensive sports car, don't use them but mollycoddle them

[ditchcrawler]

i like that a bit cheaper and i know someone who might buy it

It struck me as expensive for a hull and engine, both now second hand.

[alan_fincher]

It struck me as expensive for a hull and engine, both now second hand.

 

Seems phenomenally expensive for a 14 year old unlined (largely) sailaway.

 

To my eyes those port-holes are very small, with no obvious sign of any in the back cabin or engine room, nor any pigeon boxes or forward facing windows to improve the light situation inside.

 

Not to my eyes a very appealing prospect at all.

 

Out of interest, (not my area of knowledge), where does a boat like this sit with respect to the RCD? It is yonks old, although not yet close to being a completed boat.

[Athy]

But it's got a reputable shell and a lovely Rigas Dizelis engine. Would be a good purchase for either a skilled DIY-er or someone who could spend ad much again on a pro fit-out. Too long for me, else I'd be tempted.

[BilgePump]

It once took me 12 years to decorate the hall.

Remember as a kid waiting 8yrs for my dad to put 4screws in to put a kitchen blind up. He did manage to fit out a 45ft boat one summer though in that period. Frankly I would be like the vendor. Permanent project, but not the usual "project" boat. Decent hull, engine works, one bunk to kip. That seems to be a lot of boat for the price.

[scrabble]

One of my friends who lives a fair trek from me knows someone in the marina next to him who has this 1980s boat and has had it for nearly 10 years, apparently hes spent over £30k on what was a £5k boat that just needed slight replating. There isnt a straight panel on it outside, its about 15 different colours, despite having it plated its nearly sank about 3 times, the interior is typical 80s dark wood and it just looks like a dossers boat. Where 30k has gone i dont know, hes one of those guys who never has any money, lives in squalor but the moment he has money he says he will finish it, paint it, and it never happens, but hes always wearing the latest fashion and has the latest gadgets, I can never work people out like that.

[MHS]

Seems a small (24hp) engine for a new-ish 57' and a lot of money for a 15 year old shell.

[cheshire~rose]

Seems a small (24hp) engine for a new-ish 57' and a lot of money for a 15 year old shell.

 

I don't know this engine but is 24HP small?

[Athy]

I don't know how, but horsepower seems to be expressed differently when referring to traditional engines. The Rigas Dizelis is essentially a WW2 Deutz design built in Riga (Latvia). They were imported into Britain by Marine Engine Services in the early years of this century. They're slow-revving (I think 1,800 rpm is their maximum) and have been successfully installed in boats of around this size. We had one in our last boat and I liked it greatly - it was smoky when cold, but was reliable, had ample power and made the right sort of noise.

 

So I would suggest that this engine is man enough for the job.

[cheshire~rose]

I don't know how, but horsepower seems to be expressed differently when referring to traditional engines. The Rigas Dizelis is essentially a WW2 Deutz design built in Riga (Latvia). They were imported into Britain by Marine Engine Services in the early years of this century. They're slow-revving (I think 1,800 rpm is their maximum) and have been successfully installed in boats of around this size. We had one in our last boat and I liked it greatly - it was smoky when cold, but was reliable, had ample power and made the right sort of noise.

 

So I would suggest that this engine is man enough for the job.

 

Thank you. I guessed it was probably more to do with torque than HP and the slower revving engines often seem more powerful in boats. Having just been asked what Horse power Python had for her license I had to look it up and found it to be 22HP. At 50' most people consider her to have quite a powerful engine.

[Athy]

Just as a comparison, a Gardner 2LW is typically rated at 28 h.p. I don't think many people would suggest that even a full-length n/b fitted with one would be underpowered.

[matty40s]

I've only got 18hp in my engine hole, 70ft, always struggle to get about...

[alan_fincher]

Yes the Rigas engine should be more than adequate in this intstalation.

 

I'm not sure if it is exactly the same engine as Simon Wain has in his lovely Northwich replica "Oberon", (in fact his could possibly be a slightly less powerful one, I'm not sure), but they are very adequate to the task.

 

The National and Russell Newbery engines that were expected to power two laden working boats were only 18HP, and the "big" Bolinders only 15HP, although perhaps not quite a direct comparison, as the Rigas is much faster revving.

 

But comparison to a Lister HA2, normally quoted at 22HP in marine use is very valid.

 

My issue with this boat is not the shell or the engine, (although possibly the two are not that well matched, unless the draught is a lot more than that quoted). My issue is the price being charged for the two, and very little more, given it is 14 years old.

 

I don't agree with Athy that it could be a sensible buy, unless they are going to drop the price fairly dramatically.

 

Also, in my personal view, an interesting engine does not automatically turn a fairly boring looking shell into an interesting boat.

[Athy]

Yes the Rigas engine should be more than adequate in this intstalation.

 

I'm not sure if it is exactly the same engine as Simon Wain has in his lovely Northwich replica "Oberon", (in fact his could possibly be a slightly less powerful one, I'm not sure), but they are very adequate to the task.

 

 

 

 

I think it will be the same model, the PM 24, which is the base engine of the range. I think that MES also imported one or two three-cylinder models, and they certainly had one turbocharged example, not sure if they ever sold that, although sometimes I think that boats going past the moorings at Cropredy may be using something like it! Chris B, who was working at MES when they dealt in Rigas engines, would know more.

[Athy]

 

 

.

 

I don't agree with Athy that it could be a sensible buy, unless they are going to drop the price fairly dramatically.

 

Also, in my personal view, an interesting engine does not automatically turn a fairly boring looking shell into an interesting boat.

I hear what you're saying of course, but it's a shell from a respected builder and would appeal to someone who wanted a traditional style of boat but was unable to fork out for one with a JP or an LW. I am not sure about its market value, but I have not noticed VC Marine habitually applying over-optimistic prices to their brokerage boats.

 

Imagine the boat with a full paint job and you may think that she looked less "boring". For me, the portholes are too small but that's a matter of personal taste.

[David Mack]

Seems phenomenally expensive for a 14 year old unlined (largely) sailaway.

 

To my eyes those port-holes are very small, with no obvious sign of any in the back cabin or engine room, nor any pigeon boxes or forward facing windows to improve the light situation inside.

According to the plan there is a porthole on the back cabin starboard side.

 

It also has a very long engine room!

[Guest]

It once took me 12 years to decorate the hall.

One simply can't rush these things.

When I moved into my house almost 40 years ago, I noted the unsatisfactory wiring to the loft light and made a mental note to deal with this as a priority. You can likely guess the rest.

[MHS]

I don't know how, but horsepower seems to be expressed differently when referring to traditional engines. The Rigas Dizelis is essentially a WW2 Deutz design built in Riga (Latvia). They were imported into Britain by Marine Engine Services in the early years of this century. They're slow-revving (I think 1,800 rpm is their maximum) and have been successfully installed in boats of around this size. We had one in our last boat and I liked it greatly - it was smoky when cold, but was reliable, had ample power and made the right sort of noise.

 

So I would suggest that this engine is man enough for the job.

Is it a little like older cars where they were rated as 10hp or 12hp etc? I think it was in reference to their bore, and not directly linked to power as in brake horsepower.