the shortlist, for your approval

[Marjorie]

I'm *still* not sold on having a new boat built, but I do want to research it properly. So here's my list of people to go and see. What do you reckon?

 

For Hulls:

• XR&D
• Tyler Wilson
• Elton Moss
• R. W. Davis
• Norton Canes

(Did i pick all the stupidly expensive ones?)

 

For Fit-Out:

• Straight & Narrow (Phil Norton)
• Cherilton Narrowboats (Graham Ford - is this the guy people were saying is brilliant, but was off-puttingly grumpy at Crick?)
• Kingfisher Narrowboats (only because there's a link to them on the XR&D website, I don't think anyone has suggested them directly)
• Woodworks Boat Fitting (same as Kingfisher)

Is that overkill? If so, which would you bump to the top of the list?

[Paul C]

Not sure Elton Moss is a hull manufacturer, I think they fit out other people's shells.

[Ray T]

For hulls you've missed off St Steve:

 

 

http://www.smhudson.co.uk/

[cheshire~rose]

Have you looked at Paul Barber shells too?

 

We love the lines of his boats.

 

As for picking stupidly expensive ones .. you do get what you pay for most of the time and if you want quality then you need to be prepared to pay for it.

[Naughty Cal]

I know you probably think you know what you want from a boat but I wouldn't waste my money on a brand new boat and fit out until I had at least had 12-18 months living on a used boat with a similar spec and layout.

 

You will probably find what you think you want now is completely different to what you think you need then.

 

You can always sell the boat and buy a new one when you are sure of what you want.

 

Your short list has some nice shell builders by the way.

[John V]

I think Naughty Cal makes a lot of sense

[Marjorie]

I think Naughty Cal makes a lot of sense

 

Yep, me too.

[Grace and Favour]

Not sure Elton Moss is a hull manufacturer, I think they fit out other people's shells.

Elton Moss make excellent hulls - (ours is one)

[koukouvagia]

Have a look at Roger Fuller.

[Neil2]

Not sure Elton Moss is a hull manufacturer, I think they fit out other people's shells.

I could never work out who supplies their shells or where they come from. I've seen boats described as "steelwork by Elton Moss" but I don't know what that means. They trade as the Northwich Boat Company which I'm fairly sure sources shells from various builders.

[Alan de Enfield]

You lot are not helping - Marjorie wants a short list - you have just increased it by over 50%.

 

I fairly sure most people would say their hull is 'somewhere near the top of the list', either because they are totally happy with it, or because they paid a lot of money for it and cannot admit they made a mistake, or do not have the experience of other hulls to compare it with and think that 'heading for home' as soon as you let go of the tillier is normal.

 

Our hull is (I believe a 'medium to good' hull from Reeves - it does not handle anything like as well (particularly in reverse) as the 'bottom of the range' cheapy 'Millenium' boat that we bought in 2000.

 

Do you want a boat that is 'pleasing to the eye', handles well, or both - how do you find out which make that is ?

That is the question and we have come full circle.

 

Dont look at fit out - that is down to the quality specified by the buyer, or the standard of fitter used

 

Can you not meet-up with some local boaters and have a day out to try different types ?

[Marjorie]

You lot are not helping - Marjorie wants a short list - you have just increased it by over 50%.

 

I fairly sure most people would say their hull is 'somewhere near the top of the list', either because they are totally happy with it, or because they paid a lot of money for it and cannot admit they made a mistake, or do not have the experience of other hulls to compare it with and think that 'heading for home' as soon as you let go of the tillier is normal.

 

Our hull is (I believe a 'medium to good' hull from Reeves - it does not handle anything like as well (particularly in reverse) as the 'bottom of the range' cheapy 'Millenium' boat that we bought in 2000.

 

Do you want a boat that is 'pleasing to the eye', handles well, or both - how do you find out which make that is ?

That is the question and we have come full circle.

 

Dont look at fit out - that is down to the quality specified by the buyer, or the standard of fitter used

 

Can you not meet-up with some local boaters and have a day out to try different types ?

[MtB]

For hulls you've missed off St Steve:

 

http://www.smhudson.co.uk/

 

 

Does Saint Steve of Hudson deserve to be on Marjorie's shortlist?

 

I thought he builds complete boats with only limited customisation options, mostly involving him convincing you that what he builds is what you want

 

Also, Marjorie has stated a dislike for endless oak panelling so Hudsons must be definitely out!

 

I think similar comments apply to RW Davis. They build two lengths of 'Northwich Trader' sheel, and shell customisation is limited to picking a length. (Marjorie will also need to want an all-portholes shell..!) And like the Hudsons these are cartoon-ised styles of hulls masquerading as reproductions of working boat hull styles but not really quite managing it.

 

I stand to be corrected on all these comments...

 

MtB

 

 

(Edit to add the important word 'not'!)

Edited June 8, 2014 by Mike the Boilerman

[Ally]

I'd be more inclined to pay for a good shell, and save on fitting than vice versa, IF you go new. The shell is all important in my opinion.

[RLWP]

You lot are not helping - Marjorie wants a short list - you have just increased it by over 50%.

 

 

This is what always happens with this kind of thread. The next phase will be adding in another 100%, followed by a discussion on waiting lists

 

Richard

[Alan de Enfield]

 

This is what always happens with this kind of thread. The next phase will be adding in another 100%, followed by a discussion on waiting lists

 

Richard

 

Good point !!

 

Marjorie - phone up and ask ALL of the shell bulders what their lead time is, the best ones will have the longest lead time, job done !!

[Marjorie]

 

 

Does Saint Steve of Hudson deserve to be on Marjorie's shortlist?

 

I thought he builds complete boats with only limited customisation options, mostly involving him convincing you that what he builds is what you want

 

Also, Marjorie has stated a dislike for endless oak panelling so Hudsons must be definitely out!

 

I think similar comments apply to RW Davis. They build two lengths of 'Northwich Trader' sheel, and shell customisation is limited to picking a length. (Marjorie will also need to want an all-portholes shell..!) And like the Hudsons these are cartoon-ised styles of hulls masquerading as reproductions of working boat hull styles but really quite managing it.

 

I stand to be corrected on all these comments...

 

MtB

HA! You're hilarious. Also: thanks.

 

 

I'd be more inclined to pay for a good shell, and save on fitting than vice versa, IF you go new. The shell is all important in my opinion.

 

I thought so. While we're on the subject (sort of), a lot of the boats I've seen (real life and virtually) say they have oak or ash panelling inside. Is there any reason you couldn't use pine tongue and groove, painted and varnished, for the ceiling and above gunwales (for example), and marine ply panelling (maybe 9mm so it doesn't warp?), also painted, below? That should cut a bit of the fit out cost and still be fit for purpose, right?

 

 

 

Good point !!

 

Marjorie - phone up and ask ALL of the shell bulders what their lead time is, the best ones will have the longest lead time, job done !!

OK. Good plan. That's a hull sorted then. Will you call your son about the Cambodian children for the fit out?

[adam1uk]

I could never work out who supplies their shells or where they come from. I've seen boats described as "steelwork by Elton Moss" but I don't know what that means. They trade as the Northwich Boat Company which I'm fairly sure sources shells from various builders.

 

They build their own shells in the Czech Republic. However, their Crick boat (which was a Carefree Cruising share boat) was on a Tyler Wilson shell, as apparently their own workshop was too busy.

[John V]

 

I thought so. While we're on the subject (sort of), a lot of the boats I've seen (real life and virtually) say they have oak or ash panelling inside. Is there any reason you couldn't use pine tongue and groove, painted and varnished, for the ceiling and above gunwales (for example), and marine ply panelling (maybe 9mm so it doesn't warp?), also painted, below? That should cut a bit of the fit out cost and still be fit for purpose, right?

 

 

 

No need for Marine ply....a lot of the spec (and cost) of marine ply is for lack of "voids" any holes in the veneers are patched with veneer rather than filler as in WBP etc. Good quality WBP is more than sufficient you're not building the hull.

and on the subject of tongue and groove, when I needed some I took the van over to France on a cheap ferry trip and bought excellent quality Gascony pine t&g at way less cost than here

[Shockabilly]

If you have a look at Tyler Wilson's website they have a list of recommended builders to fit out their shells, I actually had a really good informative chat with Jonathan Wilson (the main man) & he gave a really good and frank overview of those they trusted; for a completely different look have a gander at Pendle Narrowboats, not to everyones tastes but different and apparently a really good bunch of people to work with…oh and finally a newcomer to my local scene who seems to be getting good vibes on the cut is Monkeywood Narrowboats www.monkeywood.co.uk, in fact I was having a dental check-up on Saturday morning and even the dentist was raving about the company!

 

Also, as 'new kids on the cut' we were definitely in unchartered waters about whose advise to follow and whose to discard, so I walked our naughty JRT along the towpath and as opposed to listening to brokers (who kept telling me what I needed as opposed to listening to me) talked with NB owners, additionally extensively sought counsel from local surveyors, NB engineers, independent chandlers, shell builders, marina owners & those who'd been in the trade for donkeys years such as Warstock, Willow Wren etc, without exception they all made time to talk and were frank in guiding me away from 'rogue traders' so to speak; when we saw the boat we fancied from Straight & Narrow I rang them all again made the collective decision to buy based upon their general positive consensus.

 

My rational being that a 'scatter gun' approach would sift out the what from the chaff…hopefully it seems to have worked for me!!!

Edited June 8, 2014 by Shockabilly

[Neil2]

It really doesn't matter much who builds the shell, just find one you like the look of and ask the owner who built it. It's interesting the number of times we've shared a lock with an impressive looking boat only to discover it's a Liverpool boat or another one of the budget builders.

 

But if money was no object I would be inclined to head down to Braunston and try and persuade Peter Nicholls to build one last narrowboat.

 

 

[Edders]

 

 

Does Saint Steve of Hudson deserve to be on Marjorie's shortlist?

 

I thought he builds complete boats with only limited customisation options, mostly involving him convincing you that what he builds is what you want

 

Also, Marjorie has stated a dislike for endless oak panelling so Hudsons must be definitely out!

 

 

MtB

Mr Hudson offers both part and fully fitted boats. Oak is not compulsory!!

 

Tony

[OldGoat]

If you're going to be genuinely cruising - The Boating part of the vessel has to look 'right' (rather than just immaculately painted). St. Steve's boats seem to have a lot of blisters on the hull and the bow upsweep - just too exaggerated. Would look better (IMHO) if the front deck was longer.

Looking good means that the tumblehome is right so that the superstructure doesn't get banged in tunnels, roof curvature just right so that your chimney(s) are vertical - not at a jaunty angle. A trad stern should be elliptical so you can accommodate two persons.

 

My hull builder is no more (sadly). We came to a reasonable compromise over what we wanted and what he was prepared to do. I took his advice reluctantly - because he knew boats and I didn't. We're still happy with it 20+ years later. Underwater it has extra long swims which makes it handle nicely.

 

 

[mark99]

I'm going to put a brief list of shell top enders up in no order - just so you know if one you are discussing is regarded as top end. I'm sure others will chime in.

 

 

1) Brinklow Boat Services

 

2) Roger Fuller

 

3) Norton Canes

 

4) Dave Harris

 

5) SM Hudson (marmite warning applies)

 

6) RW Davies - despite what MtB says - they are fine looking vessels - check out his Northwich Trader

 

http://www.rwdavis.co.uk/boat_building/northwich_trader.html - albeit deep drafted.

 

 

Someone mentioned Tyler Wilson - they do a variety of shells from good to their description of "top end" - so the more you pay the more work goes into it. I think they are more of a volume supplier than top end (but still good).

 

There are others mentioned earlier in this thread who I've seen a lot of examples of and been distinctly unimpressed aesthetic wise - I won't name them because I don't want to offend anyone who has got one. And of course, aesthetics is a very personal thing.

Edited June 9, 2014 by mark99

[Glynn]

I was informed at Crick on the Elton Moss wide beam that their shells were made by themselves in the UK.