Silicone bathroom sealant and other dark arts

[Starcoaster]

My shower has a plastic shower tray and plastic panel sides, which I assume are rather flimsy as some were chipped and damaged in places as part of installing them.

Anyway, where the tray joins the bottom of the panels in various places, the panels, which are as mentioned flimsy and flexible, seem to have got pushed or knocked by my feet when in the shower or something, and in areas they have been pushed back by a mm or two, and the silicone sealant that seals the join and gaps was loose and not actually sealing the joins any more, and water is now getting through. This is of course a state of affairs that is going to prove highly problematic long term, so I got myself a silicone gun and some goo, and had a go at re-sealing it.

I tried to pull out the bit of the old loose silicone stuff, and it came off in one big loose stringy strip a foot or so long, and clearly hadn't been sticking to anything for some time, and then I set about trying to pipe a neat little line of goo into the right angle between the side and the tray to seal it back off, which I generously estimated would take me all of five minutes and be very neat, because how hard can it be?

 

I ended up with lumps of goo, gaps, bigger lumps of goo, missing the gap entirely, more goo, another gap, lots of cursing, not being able to get the goo into the gap reliably for the life of me, and then spending near on two hours with a bit of cardboard trying to scrape goo into the join.

I finished with silicone several inches up the wall and on the tray in several places, but disappointingly, very little actually properly and definitely sealing the gap, to the point that I can be confident in it. Added to this, within three days, it had started peeling and rubbing off as soon as it was touched, which the original stuff didn't do.

 

HOW DO YOU DO THIS!

Or, is there something easier/ better to use?

[tree monkey]

Starcoaster, on 22 Feb 2014 - 8:28 PM, said:

My shower has a plastic shower tray and plastic panel sides, which I assume are rather flimsy as some were chipped and damaged in places as part of installing them.

Anyway, where the tray joins the bottom of the panels in various places, the panels, which are as mentioned flimsy and flexible, seem to have got pushed or knocked by my feet when in the shower or something, and in areas they have been pushed back by a mm or two, and the silicone sealant that seals the join and gaps was loose and not actually sealing the joins any more, and water is now getting through. This is of course a state of affairs that is going to prove highly problematic long term, so I got myself a silicone gun and some goo, and had a go at re-sealing it.

I tried to pull out the bit of the old loose silicone stuff, and it came off in one big loose stringy strip a foot or so long, and clearly hadn't been sticking to anything for some time, and then I set about trying to pipe a neat little line of goo into the right angle between the side and the tray to seal it back off, which I generously estimated would take me all of five minutes and be very neat, because how hard can it be?

 

I ended up with lumps of goo, gaps, bigger lumps of goo, missing the gap entirely, more goo, another gap, lots of cursing, not being able to get the goo into the gap reliably for the life of me, and then spending near on two hours with a bit of cardboard trying to scrape goo into the join.

I finished with silicone several inches up the wall and on the tray in several places, but disappointingly, very little actually properly and definitely sealing the gap, to the point that I can be confident in it. Added to this, within three days, it had started peeling and rubbing off as soon as it was touched, which the original stuff didn't do.

 

HOW DO YOU DO THIS!

Or, is there something easier/ better to use?

its easy star you just need a clean surface and a steady hand, i find good quality hand wipes are useful to assist in the clean up.

 

Also have a cup of water near by, what for i hear you ask? to add to your massive glass of malt, you will need when you realize that all the careful prep work you have done and all the advice you have listened to has come to naught and you have silicon every bloody where from ceiling to floor, in your hair on your clothes, in fact everywhere except where it needs to be

 

Pay someone

 

oh and the hand wipe thing that is good advice as it happens

 

[Beo]

Absolutely not an expert on this but have carried out exactly the same job on the shower at home over Christmas and redone a bit in the kitchen today. So, for what it's worth, this is what worked for me: get off every single little bit of the old stuff (I used a scalpel and acetone on a cloth); cut the nozzle at an angle and have a smaller hole than you think you'll need; have a bowl of cold water and a damp cloth handy; take a deep breath and go for it, try and do each run in one go. It doesn't matter if it looks a bit bobbly, dip your finger in the cold water and run along the sealant. It will look almost professional. Do not forget to release the pressure on the applicator while you are doing this otherwise you will find a large pile of sealant just where you don't want it....! This is what the damp cloth is for. Don't use a good bathroom towel, it just causes marital upset?

[Tuscan]

Hence the expression "getting stuck in" if you have done it properly you start with a thin bead of goo which swiftly spreads into blobs which has a greater capacity to stick to human skin than plastic. The job is complete once you resort to trying to smear the globules of gunk from your fingers into the small cracks that you originally sought to fill. As you can gather I have yet to master the technique of getting silicone where it is meant to go.

[Rob-M]

I was once told that using a wet finger and running it along the sealant will give a good quality finish but all it ever does for me is help spread it around my hand and the rest of the bathroom. I would say the best advice is pay an expert to do it for you.

[Starcoaster]

The job is complete once you resort to trying to smear the globules of gunk from your fingers into the small cracks that you originally sought to fill.

 

 

I am already REALLY good at this part.

I did also get through a whole packet of babywipes the first time.

 

I am slightly heartened to learn that this really IS apparently hard, and not just that I am a cack-handed idiot. However, getting someone else in to do it is not really an option financially. Silicone and DIY is only £5, plus I found that after I eventually peeled/washed the silicone out of my hair, I didn't need to use frizz-ease for days, oh and the first time I came inside after a pouring rain storm, my hair was totally dry.

I really hoped there was just some simple technique or hack that I was missing that would make it all simple, but I will persevere!

[nicknorman]

Having just installed a complete new bathroom in the house, this is one of the harder jobs to do neatly.

 

First rule, have an entire kitchen roll to hand (or probably two). Plus a supermarket poly bag to put the soiled tissue in, otherwise it gets everywhere.

 

Secondly, as has been said, make sure the surfaces are completely clean (use solvent to clean thoroughly, so long as it doesn't melt the plastic). Depending on what they are, a little roughing up with sandpaper might be a good idea, but don't scratch the bits that are visible. The stuff is not good for filling large gaps. 3mm gap is about ideal (because it is not good for filling small gaps either). If you have a large gap, really this is not right but as a bodge you can put the stuff on in 2 goes, one to generally fill the void, and the second to finish it properly.

 

For finishing the wet finger seems to be best. But don't run your finger far before wiping it on more kitchen roll, wetting again and repeat. If you leave it to skin over before doing this, all you will do is ruck up the skin.

 

Finally I did get some water- based silicone from BandQ which is much easier to use. However I am not sure if it would be suitable for a shower (didn't read the instruction that well, and now thrown away) since I was not using it in a very wet area.

Edited February 22, 2014 by nicknorman

[Ray T]

Starry these are available:

 

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-PIECE-WINDOW-GLAZING-SILICONE-SEALANT-FILLER-GROUT-PUTTY-FINISHING-TOOL-/271322384007#ht_578wt_1400

 

I've tried them, but I must admit not a lot of success.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Ray T

[Machpoint005]

Masking tape either side of the joint run is a good idea so long as you get it in the right place, better still, PVC insulting tape. Apart from that, I use the wet finger approach as fingertips are brilliant universal application tools (better than any plastic gizmo I've ever come across).

[bastion]

smooth the silicone with your finger and use a supermarket carrier-bag to wipe your finger on, better than any paper towel or wet-wipes.

[Ex- Member]

The trick is injecting the correct amount of goo to corresponding gap. When you see the pro's do it it really does look simple, window fitters are especially good with goo. I've worked in the building trade and been a decorator for 5 rears so cauking comes pretty easy to me, but I'm not as good as the window guys.

 

Do single lengths at a time starting in a corner that suits you, ie Left or Right handed.

 

Snip off a small amount of tip of the nozzil make sure it's ball park the same size or smaller than the gap you're filling, this will keep the nozzil on target and get more goo into the gap, gently squeeze and apply a smooth even application of goo at around a 45 degree angle to the entire length, just continue, stopping and going over again causes blobs and over application.

 

Try not to over apply, too much goo means the goo will overlap your finger tip when rubbing out meaning more removal of ridges of goo. So under apply rather than over apply, it's easier to go back over with more goo than to clean off goo and dispose of it.

 

I don't generally use tissue, rag is far better and doesn't impregnate the goo with fluffy tissue. If it's water based goo use a damp rag, if it's spirit based used turps/White spirit moistened rag, it will clean your finger much quicker than dry tissue.

 

I just lick my finger and run it the entire length of application, most the time it's job done, I do get it wrong though but mostly by under application rather than over. So I just need to reapply where deficient and repeat finger run, done so within a few minutes and the reapplication will blend seamlessly into the other with most goo's.

 

Funnily enough I had to do this just yesterday as I'm decorating my sisters lounge and just fitted new flooring and skirting board. Painters cauk is much easier than other sealants though, but good practice for the art of applying goo.

[Dyertribe]

Masking tape either side of the joint run is a good idea so long as you get it in the right place, better still, PVC insulting tape. Apart from that, I use the wet finger approach as fingertips are brilliant universal application tools (better than any plastic gizmo I've ever come across).

 

I agree with the wet finger/ masking approach.

You must be prepared to throw the clothes you are wearing away afterwards!

 

My question is: how do you keep the silicone mould free when next to the metal frame and I can't use bleach to nuke it for fear of ruining the metal?

[Phil Ambrose]

First class post, got it exactly right and your comments about window fitters are spot on, they can just sort of swipe down once and job done

Phil

[Rebotco]

What always flummoxes me is whether to draw the tube towards me or push it away. It feels most natural to work towards me, but most of the professionals I've seen seem to push it away. Their results are considerably better than mine, but I cannot improve it by trying their method.

I guess I must be just kakhanded!

But back on topic, one of the secrets of replacing silicone, is that every scrap of the old silicone must be removed first, as new silicone simply will not adhere to any old. And I reckon its harder removing the old than applying the new.

[Phil Ambrose]

What always flummoxes me is whether to draw the tube towards me or push it away. It feels most natural to work towards me, but most of the professionals I've seen seem to push it away. Their results are considerably better than mine, but I cannot improve it by trying their method.

I guess I must be just kakhanded!

But back on topic, one of the secrets of replacing silicone, is that every scrap of the old silicone must be removed first, as new silicone simply will not adhere to any old. And I reckon its harder removing the old than applying the new.

You can get Silicon Eater which will remove it, for myself it is many years since I have used it, I much prefer to use a white adhesive/sealant such as "Sticks Like Sh¤t" for sealing around baths,showers etc as it doesn't fail like silicon does and works even with damp surfaces

Phil

[Ex- Member]

You can get Silicon Eater which will remove it, for myself it is many years since I have used it, I much prefer to use a white adhesive/sealant such as "Sticks Like Sh¤t" for sealing around baths,showers etc as it doesn't fail like silicon does and works even with damp surfaces

Phil

 

Agreed, Stixall is also the dogs wosnames and in 5 different colours. I've been using it around 5 years now for all gluing and sealing jobs on the boat, it hasn't failed anywhere yet as far as I know, even in the shower, it even adheres metal to glass, it's just brilliant, it does need good neat application though, as it's so sticky you'll get in a right mess if you use it for sealing and get it wrong.

 

It dries back like a medium hard rubber and can be painted on if required.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Julynian

[NorthwichTrader]

Just two points from me!

I don't think cutting the nozzle smaller than you need is a good idea, it increases the pressures required, delivers a bag of worms, and forces upon you the worse thing you can do...move slowly! Far better to have a lower pressure bead...just plan your route...even trial it dry with the gun and tube, so you can spot the places/corners/etc. where your gun is going to get caught/jammed, and you're going to get in a fix! You can then work out how you'll move the gun smoothly through those obstacles, during the application, and hopefully manage to keep it moving smoothly!

The other thing I'd say is 'flexible' joints are not good in a shower unit! We had a static caravan with a similar floppy joint between wall and shower tray...I resealed it twice before finally accepting a more permanent solution was required, and this came in the form of a batten sikoflexed to the reverse of the bottom side panel, which was sized to fit against the wall (where I also SF'd it).

[smileypete]

Have done a fair bit of this, one of the best silicon smoothers are 'Fugen Ass' - I kid you not!

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fugen-Ass-Fugi-Kits-Easy-Silicone-Applicator-/320389909167

 

In a pinch I've used old cutlery with a round handle as a smoothing tool, but it leaves a bit that needs scraping off when dry.

 

Use a good sealant with a long anti mould guarantee, not just plain sanitary sealant, good ones are Dow 785 (Screwfix sell it), Everbuild Forever White or Unibond Ice White.

 

S'posed to be best to push the nozzle, and just cut it at angle depending on whether you want a flat seam or curved one.

 

Where there's a deep gap, pack it out a slice of pipe foam insulation (closed cell foam). Also use a bigger seam where some movement is expected but it's no substitute for decent fixings.

 

Maybe fix some old boards at a right angle and do some practice with a tube of cheap sanitary sealant.

 

ETA: Probably worth a trawl of tilers forum to get some pro tips:

 

http://www.tilersforums.co.uk/tiling-forum/69180-siliconing-technique.html

 

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited February 22, 2014 by smileypete

[Pete & Helen]

It may cost you to get someone in but I would advise to change the shower tray for a more solid type, or the problem will just keep returning. The cost of the job being done properly will out-way the cost of the damage that the boat will suffer having water sloshing about under the floor

[BlueStringPudding]

Two lines of masking tape

 

Pipe the sealant doesn't matter if it's a bit uneven

 

Run a teaspoon along it in one continuous go

 

Peel off masking tape

 

Done

[Charly]

This stuff helps

 

http://www.homebase.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=110&storeId=10151&partNumber=593786

 

These solve some tears, maybe buy 10 boxes and return those you don't use (if you are like me!)

 

http://www.screwfix.com/p/de-solv-it-multi-task-wipes-pack-of-300/87561#product_additional_details_container

 

Or cheat

http://www.homebase.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=110&storeId=10151&partNumber=633562

 

May the force be with you...

[ackdaw]

silicone sealant , is not that easy to use , as they have said it takes a constant equal slow pressure to get the sealant to flow out the nozzel at the speed your moving the nozzel at , , a bit like welding ? in one sense , but master that and your half way their , you can buy silicone sealant in clear as well as white , but some dont have a fungacide solution in them , get onr that does .

 

id suggest just do a trial run on bit of material so you get the flow principel if you slow down you get a lump the silicones still coming out the nozzel at the same speed ? if you apply more pressure it comes out faster , its a case of balencing the two , get that right and youve saved half the mess already .

 

its a knack you learn with use , same as welding takes a small while to get the hang off it , but its a small skill worth perfecting , silicone is like duct tape , the more you use it the more use you find for it .

so take heart , lol .

 

cleaning i just use a wet finger as a lot do then wipe my finger clean , the various small smears you might get , leave the to dry and just wipe over the following day

they tend to just peel off , trying to wipe it off while wet just spreds it ?

 

i used the plumbers merchants for my last 2 tubes , they said do you want the cheap £2.00 or the good stuff £5.00 i took the good stuff , i wouldent buy it fron warehouse etc i often tend to think they sell cheap stuff at a dear price , builders merchants etc will have the tradesmen going ape if the gear they sell is not fit , etc ? .

 

you also say the panel moves if you apply pressure thats not good as you carnt force a good seal in , and like any surface your going to paint or glue or seal preperation is vital it needs to be clean .

 

i think most might struggle a bit if the wall moves while your working .

ive stuck down a ceramic wc pan onto ceramic floor tiles and its solid , so silican can and will do a lot of jobs very well

 

as you say its learning the odd tip and more so learning the knack , dont be put off the ist time i tried woodworking all i built was a bonfire

[costalot]

Don't use silicone. It breaks down in a wet environment. Use construction adhesive instead. Mask either side of the gap with paper masking tape and carefully apply the adhesive. Once the adhesive has been applied dip your finger in white spirits and carefully smooth the joint with your finger using a cloth dipped in white spirits to clean the excess adhesive off your finger. Once you are satisfied, carefully remove the masking tape.

[George Kennedy]

Your best bet for acheiving a smooth finish is dipping your finger in washing up liquid. It means that your finger will glide over the surface and the silicon won't stick to your skin.

As long as you get all of the old stuff off and use masking tape you'll get a good finish. I use newspaper torn into kitchen roll size pieces for cleaning up, it's cheaper but more importantly it doesn't tear or break up. With a washing up liquid barrier between the skin and the silicon, it's fairly easy to stay clean.

[nb Innisfree]

I gave up with silicone ages ago, now use acrylic sealant, its water based so easy to smooth over and clean off. Needs redoing more than silicone but compensates with ease of use.