We're buying her (and her engine...)

[Tom Richmond]

Hello all!

 

I think I have found a boat to buy! Have agreed a price with owner, just waiting to check my finances are in order and then will transfer a deposit maybe as soon as this weekend! She's a 43' trad called Dirtwater Fox No2, and is moored at the Pillings Lock Marina, nr. Loughborough. For anyone interested enough you can check out pictures of her on facebook. My girlfriend and I are planning to live aboard, and will CC. We plan to open up the bedroom at the back into a more conventional set up (with steps and a door out to the engine room!) and to get rid of the fake brick effect very quickly...

 

We are getting a hull survey (this is not a post for anyone who wants to say that surveys are not worth the paper they are written on, I have read those posts, and understand your viewpoint, thank you please), and are unsure whether to include a survey of the engine as well (Lister SW2). The surveyor has quoted an extra £50 to include machinery. I know that he may well say the engine is fine and we sail away and break down around the corner, but he may also say that it has some problems, which would then give us leverage to discuss the price. Any thoughts welcome here...

 

The other thing I would like to do is give the engine a good once over myself, alongside an experienced marine mechanic (pro or amateur). I am very practical, and about to become a boat owner, but I have relatively little experience in the maintenance of a marine diesel engine. I'd really like someone to take me through the maintenance routine, what should be done every day, week, year etc. As well as show me how to do it, as I don't know when anything was last done it is safe to assume that she is in need of everything, (I am not interested in someone coming along and doing it for me, that wont provide any help in the long run!) So, is there anyone reading this forum who is in the Loughborough area who thinks they may be able to help? It should probably happen before start of March, but I can be flexible within that. I can provide company, beer, food and money if you're interested in such things. I would also happily swap time and skills. I am a competent carpenter, and have access to a workshop, so if you needed something for your boat in exchange... Paying a pro mechanic is of course an option here, and I will happily take recommendations of local people you have used.

 

Thanks a lot for reading this, I look forward to your thoughts, recommendations, advice and suggestions!

 

Tom.

[Captain Fizz]

Hi Tom welcome to the forum.

I would say that the additional £50 would be money well spent in the grand scheme of things.

I am happy to guide you through things mechanical when the time comes.

 

Simon

[kevinl]

Curious time to be doing any sort of business with Pillings Lock, let's hope you can get it out of the marina and your deposit doesn't end up with the receivers.

K

[alan_fincher]

I know that he may well say the engine is fine and we sail away and break down around the corner, but he may also say that it has some problems, which would then give us leverage to discuss the price. Any thoughts welcome here...

 

If its in Pilling's Lock Marina, you need to be totally confident you can drive it out of there!

 

(Coat, please)

Edited January 23, 2014 by alan_fincher

[Mike Tee]

Seconded on spending the £50

 

Is it a private purchase or through the marina? If through the marina, read (it may take a while) the post under 'Pillings Lock Marina' in the General section.

[john6767]

Given the current situation with Pillings Lock Marina, I would be very careful about a. who actually owns the boat and, b. who I was paying any deposit or other monies to. No reason not to buy the boat, but care needed.

Edited January 23, 2014 by john6767

[Nightwatch]

Hi Tom.

 

We met sometime before Christmas when you viewed Poppy Jack.

 

Dirt water Fox No2 looks a good buy.

 

As others have said, be careful at Pillings Marina. Do read the thread about what is going on there and spend the extra £50 on the engine. Listers are great engines on the whole but you never know.

 

Hope all goes well for you and your partner.

 

Martyn

 

Edit to add a PS. Do you intend to put in an offer lower than the £16500 advertised price. It also seems that Boats and Outboards are selling and not Pillings Marina. There 'may be' a problem with access to the marina in the future. Buyer Beware and all that.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Nightwatch

[PaulG]

I see that the BSS certificate expired in August last year.

Personally I would expect the current owner to renew this before the date of the sale.

Quite apart from the potential for additional expense, you can't get a C&RT licence until you have a valid BSS certificate, so in its absence the only way out of the marina will be by road.

[junior]

Be very careful about who you pay any money to!

[WJM]

43' seems a very small space for two people to live in.

[Robbo]

I see that the BSS certificate expired in August last year.

Personally I would expect the current owner to renew this before the date of the sale.

Quite apart from the potential for additional expense, you can't get a C&RT licence until you have a valid BSS certificate, so in its absence the only way out of the marina will be by road.

 

When I bought my latest boat, I asked the surveyor to do a BSS at the same time (if they wasn't anything major to stop the sail of the boat). It will be cheaper than doing a BSS at a later date, or you could get the seller to fund this cost.

[bottle]

I see that the BSS certificate expired in August last year.

Personally I would expect the current owner to renew this before the date of the sale.

Quite apart from the potential for additional expense, you can't get a C&RT licence until you have a valid BSS certificate, so in its absence the only way out of the marina will be by road.

 

Possibly the surveyor could do this for you but only if he thinks the rest is OK.

 

Edit: Robbo beat me to it, must type faster.

Edited January 23, 2014 by bottle

[Proper Job]

Is it still common practice that the marina gets a percentage of sales if the boat is resident in the marina, even if it's a private transaction and nothing to do with the marina?

[Dalslandia]

Why is it a rusty waterline some 6" up around the stern? have it been half sunken or just been mored with the bow on the bank/beach when the water sank?

lot of gunk around the engine

you need to have it lifted up to make a hull survey.

[station tug]

what posts have you read on here that say a servay isnt worth the paper they are written on?? if you dont have a comprehensive understanding of narrowboats youd be a fool not to have one.....the advice given on this forum is always proceed with caution...hence the replies youve had on this post so far......an extra £50 for the servayer to look at the engine is money well spent in your situation....buying a decent boat without hastle can be the start of an amazing adventure you will be entering into a world of many contrasts..the summer will soon be here and the canal will awaken again for another season..........hope it all goes well for you and you enjoy your life changing adventure..

[Tom Richmond]

Hi all,

 

Firstly, wow! What a crazy adventure they seem to be going through at Pillings Lock! Thanks for showing me all that.... We would leave the marina by early March at the latest, before any concreting action takes place!

 

Secondly, boat is coming out of the water at owners expense for blacking and survey will take place at the same time (therefore saving on the lift out costs). He is also paying for new boat safety (same time, with same surveyor). He had the BSSC done recently, and it failed (fuel lines and cracked casing in the wood burner) but these things will all be rectified within the sale price. We have had an offer accepted which is considerably lower than the asking price.

 

Thanks for all your replies etc!

 

Tom.

[Kwacker]

Love the name!

Best of luck and happy cruising.

[OldGoldy]

Now is it me, or is there something amiss here? Pillings Lock have this boat advertised at £16,500 BUT there are two more ads on Boats & Outboards for the same boat............at £5,100?

 

OK, the OP has been in touch with the seller, so he knows where he stands, but maybe the OP could advise the seller that there may be something 'iffy' going on, like a distance selling scam, you know, the 'can't get there, pay your money, agent will deal etc??'

Edited January 23, 2014 by OldGoldy

[kevinl]

Poor Tom, he came on here all bright and shiney and about to buy a boat at 12.04, now 4 hours later he's being distance scammed into buying something in a soon to be bricked up marina. Ever wish you'd just stayed in bed

K

[RLWP]

Now is it me, or is there something amiss here? Pillings Lock have this boat advertised at £16,500 BUT there are two more ads on Boats & Outboards for the same boat............at £5,100?

 

OK, the OP has been in touch with the seller, so he knows where he stands, but maybe the OP could advise the seller that there may be something 'iffy' going on, like a distance selling scam, you know, the 'can't get there, pay your money, agent will deal etc??'

 

A possibility is that the £5,100 ads are scams. People taking the details of a boat and putting up a new advert. The low, low price is about right for that kind of thing

 

Richard

[Bettie Boo]

Hi all,

 

Firstly, wow! What a crazy adventure they seem to be going through at Pillings Lock! Thanks for showing me all that.... We would leave the marina by early March at the latest, before any concreting action takes place!

 

Secondly, boat is coming out of the water at owners expense for blacking and survey will take place at the same time (therefore saving on the lift out costs). He is also paying for new boat safety (same time, with same surveyor). He had the BSSC done recently, and it failed (fuel lines and cracked casing in the wood burner) but these things will all be rectified within the sale price. We have had an offer accepted which is considerably lower than the asking price.

 

Thanks for all your replies etc!

 

Tom.

Hi Tom

 

Firstly - all the very best to you. We've just gone through the buying process for the first time also as novice boaters. Absolutely not a clue what we were doing when we first started out, but with loads of advice received from forum members we now have our new home floating at Braunston

 

Pieces of advice I'm happy to share through our experience..... (I'm not associated with any of the companies mentioned below, just a Very satisfied customer passing along info)

 

- Owner had her pulled out of the water at his own cost to have her re blackened (and his license was up for renewal as well)

- Full pre-purchase survey completed by Trevor Whitling (Highly recommend and he did a new BSC for us included in the cost of the survey) he found a couple of things that needed to be corrected, gave the list to the owner. The owner completed the work, sent Trevor pics of the completed work and Trevor sent us our BSC when he was happy the work had been completed to the correct standard.

- If you need it moved (road hauled) at all AB Tucky's are Brilliant and their crane operators were also brilliant - completely hassle free and did exactly what they said they would do when they said they would do it.

- If you looking for insurance, give Collidge & Partners a ring, Chris provides exceptional customer service and didn't try to oversell us, if anything he thought we were putting our contents coverage too high

- Capt Fizz (Simon) if he's offering to go through things with you, I'd Highly recommend you take him up on his offer. Extremely well versed, knowledgeable and a Great laugh as well. He came down to Braunston and gave Bettie's Blessing the once over with Dave & I. We learned loads (tip of the ice berg, of our learning curve I'm sure), but very valuable none the less.

 

Again - All the best, hope you enjoy your first night aboard as much as we did

 

B~

[alan_fincher]

Now is it me, or is there something amiss here? Pillings Lock have this boat advertised at £16,500 BUT there are two more ads on Boats & Outboards for the same boat............at £5,100?

 

OK, the OP has been in touch with the seller, so he knows where he stands, but maybe the OP could advise the seller that there may be something 'iffy' going on, like a distance selling scam, you know, the 'can't get there, pay your money, agent will deal etc??'

 

 

 

A possibility is that the £5,100 ads are scams. People taking the details of a boat and putting up a new advert. The low, low price is about right for that kind of thing

 

Richard

 

Almost certainly.....

 

Here they are

 

Linky & Linky

 

Pretty certain I recall the "Friday Ad" website that appears in one of these as being used on a similar scam in the past.

 

Both adds contain different mobile numbers, but both tracks it seem lead to Essex!

[Tom Richmond]

Hi Tom welcome to the forum.

I would say that the additional £50 would be money well spent in the grand scheme of things.

I am happy to guide you through things mechanical when the time comes.

 

Simon

 

Thanks! That's really kind. I will PM you... when the time comes.

[Alanji]

Hi Tom and best wishes for your boating life

 

As an ex corporate financier (among other things) one of the things that concerned me when I bought my boat a year ago was what happened to the deposit money and, more importantly, the balance monies before I took physical delivery of the boat. It is a bit of a nightmare. Slightly different if you are buying privately but similar considerations apply.

If the broker goes into liquidation after receiving your money and before you receive the bill of sale (and the boat) you will be an unsecured creditor and very unlikely to get any money back.

Normally people will pay by cheque which will take 3-5 days to clear.

A bankers draft is not guaranteed so the broker will insist on waiting until it clears (3 days?).

Some brokers claim the monies are kept in a separate client account. All solicitors use these (and they are securely ring fenced - fraud excepting) but from my research it is very unlikely that any brokers have a "safe" client account. Mostly they are just a separate account which would still be part of the broker's assets in a liquidation. If they claim to have a 'proper' client account (at least one does) I suggest you ask for written confirmation from their solicitors or accountants that the account is properly ring fenced ie confirm that, in the event that ABC Ltd goes into liquidation, your monies will be returned to you.

The solution I found was to pay by debit card, in person, and have the bill of sale handed over simultaneously. The broker kindly also reduced the amount of deposit required. Note some banks will set a daily limit on the amount you can pay, which would scupper this option. With "faster payments" it might be possible to use a BACS transfer (free), or a CHAPS transfer (about £50 I think), but you might be sitting in the broker's office a few hours until the transfer takes place. Another possibility would be to pay the monies to the broker's solicitors (if they have one) who hold the money in their client account, just like the sale of a house, but fees would undoubtedly be involved. I briefly discussed paying the owner direct - the broker might insist on deducting his commission, which you would have to pay direct to them, but this is obviously not without problems.

 

On the other side of the coin the vendor will be at risk from the moment the broker hands over the bill of sale to the purchaser, until the vendor receives the cleared funds in his account.. I'll worry about that one when I come to sell!

 

So far as help with the engine is concerned the RCR two day course at £100 is very good value. Tony Brooks, who posts on here, used to run the courses and very kindly makes his course notes available to all http://www.tb-training.co.uk/

 

If you want someone to give you hands on experience Matty40s is in your area (regular poster here). His rates are very reasonable and he is extremely knowledgeable and friendly http://oldfriendscanalservices.weebly.com/%C2'>

[Richard T]

Not certain if you have got a surveyor yet but Ovation Boat Services at Sileby (Chris williams) is very helpful and is a BSC examiner. If you want a short term mooring away from Pillings try Sileby Mill.