macc Posted September 29, 2013 Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 looking at buying a sterling pro-s 2500w combi or would i be better spending my money on a mastervolt or victron. cheers jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul's Nulife4-2 Posted September 29, 2013 Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 (edited) Hi macc, Ive had a Mastervolt 2500 inverter in fairly heavy use in a liveaboard situation for approximately 6yrs now.it copes with both high start & sustains high usage appliances over time very well.it's worth highlighting that I believe these 2 points are important factors in making a decision... & we've had no problems with it in anyway. It was more expensive than other makes,but I belive the components used within the 'magic box' might be installed with longevity very much in mind..pluss vanity got the better of me,as all the nesasary bits n pieces in my eng bay are the same make.sad I know, I should have mentioned,I have a separate mastervolt 80amp battery charger,my thinking as with most things technical is,they seam to be more reliable the less they do.& if one side of 'combi' unit develops a fault,it will almost certainly affect the other. Edited September 29, 2013 by Paul's Nulife4-2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard10002 Posted September 29, 2013 Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 (edited) I have a Sterling 2500W Pro Combi S and I wouldn't have one again: 1) if you leave it connected to the mains for charging and leave the boat for a few days, and the power is interrupted, it reverts to inverter mode when the power is restored, and flattens your batteries. Sterling confirm that this is how it is, and they are looking at changing this in future models. This is a fairly critical design fault IMHO. I have a second charger which I would use in these circumstances, but it shouldn't be necessary. 2) whatever the state of charge, (45% is the lowest I've been), it only runs for an hour in Absorbtion mode before reverting to Float mode... which isn't long enough to charge the batteries. I usually find I've been charging at float for half an hour or so before realising the hour is up. I appreciate that this is a safety setting, but it's too safe for my setup. This isn't the end of the world, but it's bloody irritating. If I remember, I can switch to the second charger when the amps fall below about 20A. I believe the Victron and Mastervolt allow you to set it to "charge only", so is in charging mode whatever happens to the mains supply in your absence. If I was on a budget, I'd get a Victron with a lower wattage, rather than a Sterling again. Edited September 29, 2013 by Richard10002 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted September 29, 2013 Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 Mastervolt is best, Victron second, Stirling third. Prices are in corresponding order I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles Posted September 29, 2013 Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 (edited) I have no experience of Mastervolt as an end user. However I know of one boater that blew his up somehow and it was about £800 to fix and it took weeks. I blew my Victron up by connecting it the wrong way round and it was back fixed for £117 inc 2 way transport in 5 days. For service and back up I would certainly go with Victron again and again. As to performance, well, again I have no complaints. Seems to work just fine (When I leave it alone)! Also they seem to be much more widely discussed here so there is a big CWF knowledge base on them. Edited September 29, 2013 by Biggles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macc Posted September 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 thanks for replies my have to change my mind to mastervolt, ely chandlers are doing a good price on them was looking at the http://www.ebcmarineandleisure.co.uk/combi-inverter-and-charger/mastervolt-mass-combi-12v/2000w-100a but is 2000w 2000w or 2000va. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted September 29, 2013 Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 I have no experience of Mastervolt as an end user. However I know of one boater that blew his up somehow and it was about £800 to fix and it took weeks. I blew my Victron up by connecting it the wrong way round and it was back fixed for £117 inc 2 way transport in 5 days. For service and back up I would certainly go with Victron again and again. As to performance, well, again I have no complaints. Seems to work just fine (When I leave it alone)! Also they seem to be much more widely discussed here so there is a big CWF knowledge base on them. You're probably right about repair costs, however MV stuff very rarely seems to go wrong. Yes there is more discussion on here about Victron, but that is because they are more faffy and require discussion. Mastervolt just works and doesn't require discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macc Posted September 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 thanks for reply biggles i posted after your post might have to have a re-think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted September 29, 2013 Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 It will be VA but with most loads not involving motors it will be the same in W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex- Member Posted September 29, 2013 Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 You're probably right about repair costs, however MV stuff very rarely seems to go wrong. Yes there is more discussion on here about Victron, but that is because they are more faffy and require discussion. Mastervolt just works and doesn't require discussion. I wonder if that applies to composting toilets as well LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted September 29, 2013 Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 I have a Sterling 2500W Pro Combi S and I wouldn't have one again: 1) if you leave it connected to the mains for charging and leave the boat for a few days, and the power is interrupted, it reverts to inverter mode when the power is restored, and flattens your batteries. Sterling confirm that this is how it is, and they are looking at changing this in future models. This is a fairly critical design fault IMHO. I have a second charger which I would use in these circumstances, but it shouldn't be necessary. 2) whatever the state of charge, (45% is the lowest I've been), it only runs for an hour in Absorbtion mode before reverting to Float mode... which isn't long enough to charge the batteries. I usually find I've been charging at float for half an hour or so before realising the hour is up. I appreciate that this is a safety setting, but it's too safe for my setup. This isn't the end of the world, but it's bloody irritating. If I remember, I can switch to the second charger when the amps fall below about 20A. I believe the Victron and Mastervolt allow you to set it to "charge only", so is in charging mode whatever happens to the mains supply in your absence. If I was on a budget, I'd get a Victron with a lower wattage, rather than a Sterling again. 1) Is a pretty basic design flaw. I used to think that all combis work this way and was glad that I had a separate charger and inverter. However, even some of the more expensive combis will automatically switch over to inverter in the event of interrupted mains supply and only let you know by means of an indicator light. If you happen to notice it that's fine. Personally I don't like any auto-changeover devices and that includes electrical or gas because I want to be in control of the systems on my boat. A charge only function should be a basic feature of all combis. 2) Isn't it possible to send your unit back to Sterling and get them to extend how long it stays on absorption before it goes onto float? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macc Posted September 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 never tried running a hover or washing machine from a composting toilet does the methane run a generator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmelly Posted September 29, 2013 Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 Mastervolt are awesome, victron are good but not as good, sterling are ok if your budget dictates. The price in this case is the guide. Mastervolt are the most expensive and you get what you pay for. I always buy seperates I hate inverter/chargers two many eggs in just one basket. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHutch Posted September 29, 2013 Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 There is a lot to be said for autochange over, as well as supply mixing, but you at least want to be able to lock it inot which ever mode ideally. We only have a 300w msw maplins inverter, and what I have seen elsewhere appears to fit with the above. Equally, we have had no issues at all with our (now 22year old) sterling charger, a 24v 25amp three output unit. I dont know if the brand support/quality has changed in two decades. Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted September 29, 2013 Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 (edited) Victrons and presume Mastervolt now have 2 AC outlets one for high loads that you don't want to be on when no power from shore or generator and the other for always on stuff. They also have 2 AC inlets, one for shore, one for generator and will automatically choose the live source. In addition they can power boost the shore/generator, which is handy as you can then have a smaller generator. The main benefit over a combo from separate units, is that the charger will lower the charge amps if your running some other high load AC as well. Which is handy if your running a washing machine as well as charging batteries and especially if you have a low KW generator. Edited September 29, 2013 by Robbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve hayes Posted September 29, 2013 Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 Had a Sterling for 6 years without a problem, changed it for a 3KW sine wave of Chinese origin 3 years ago without problem. Our 9 year old Sterling 50A charger is rarely bothered with a shoreline, but still remembers how to work when required Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_P Posted September 29, 2013 Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 looking at buying a sterling pro-s 2500w combi or would i be better spending my money on a mastervolt or victron. cheers jim You could spend your money on any off these but since they're all £1000+, I'd say you must have more money than sense. What are you looking to run off this inverter? IMO these inverters continue to sell because of a long held myth about electrical devices not working off MSW inverters. I suspect this was more of a problem in the past but far less so now. I also think there's an awful lot of 'badge' going on here. Yes, I'm sure Mastervolt etc inverters are well built, but they bloody well ought to have a 20 year guarantee at those prices. An earlier poster hinted at the truth - the desire to have matching equipment with a fancy logo in the hopes that visitor see it and go 'oooh - nice!' For £1000 I'd expect an inverter / charger to wake me up in the morning with a cup of tea, entertain me with amusing anecdotes over dinner, and look like Natalie Portman. Anything less and I'll stick with what I have thanks very much. A 2000w MSW bought on Amazon for around £120. Performs faultless and runs everything I want. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted September 29, 2013 Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 You could spend your money on any off these but since they're all £1000+, I'd say you must have more money than sense. The Victron Phoenix MultiPlus with 35A charger is less than £700 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted September 29, 2013 Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 ?.. A 2000w MSW bought on Amazon for around £120. Performs faultless and runs everything I want. And warms the boat when it catches fire - what more could you want! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest User Posted September 29, 2013 Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 I'd like to put in my vote for Xantrex products; it's good quality, from Canada, and sold in the UK by Merlin Power-Store badged with their "M-Power" label. The PROWatt SW 2000 pure sine wave inverter is about £640. (I've no connection other than being a very happy user of Xantrex kit). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul's Nulife4-2 Posted September 29, 2013 Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 (edited) Vanity,,as well as -Product Pedigree,,country wide Repair & customer service support,,Multi System Connectivity Compatible,,Resale looks & Value Ofcourse !,.so paying a bit extra to be 'Badged',as well as all previously stated in post 2, Yep guilty. But we all look at things so differently. & Its a very individual thing. Edited September 29, 2013 by Paul's Nulife4-2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smileypete Posted September 30, 2013 Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 (edited) And warms the boat when it catches fire - what more could you want! Oh dear oh dear Nick Any shred of evidence to back up your elitist FUD? Biggest incidence of near meltdowns seems to be leisure batts left unattended on a high power combi charger, it's often the most expensive combis too, tells you something. cheers, Pete. ~smpt~ Edited September 30, 2013 by smileypete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted September 30, 2013 Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 Oh dear oh dear Nick Any shred of evidence to back up your elitist FUD? Biggest incidence of near meltdowns seems to be leisure batts left unattended on a high power combi charger, it's often the most expensive combis too, tells you something. cheers, Pete. ~smpt~ Firstly, for the avoidance of doubt I was referring to Dave_P's seemingly unbranded and bought on Amazon device, not the Merlin one. Secondly, no direct evidence but crucially, none to the contrary either. An MV, Victron or even Stirling has a proven track record of not going on fire. An unknown or unheard-of one doesn't. You only have to look at the number of fake phone chargers exploding/ going on fire to know that it is a generic problem with some cheap electronics. So the choice is to buy cheap and increase the risk of a boat fire (though you may well get away with it) vs buy ore expensive and reduce said risk. I choose the latter and if that makes me elitest, well, I'm proud to be elitest. Because a mainstream inverter is much cheaper than a complete refit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathanA Posted September 30, 2013 Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 so thats cheap LEDs and cheap inverters that are likely to spontaneously combust.... The reality is that a cheaper device MAY contain inferior components or be of a 'lower standard' however you define that, but properly installed and protected by appropriate fuses/circuit breakers I can't see how these pose any greater fire risk than a 'better unit'. I think I'm with Dave _p unless you need to run something exotic like a very fancy hi-fi system then I would not pay the extra for a pure sine wave over a quasi/msw inverter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kae Posted September 30, 2013 Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 so thats cheap LEDs and cheap inverters that are likely to spontaneously combust.... The reality is that a cheaper device MAY contain inferior components or be of a 'lower standard' however you define that, but properly installed and protected by appropriate fuses/circuit breakers I can't see how these pose any greater fire risk than a 'better unit'. I think I'm with Dave _p unless you need to run something exotic like a very fancy hi-fi system then I would not pay the extra for a pure sine wave over a quasi/msw inverter. You're comparing apples and orangutans! "Cheap" LED's Vs Expensive LED's are a question of whether the parts are different (rarely are they any different)!. Cheap Inverters Vs Expensive Inverters will use cheap internals. There is no question of this. The parts cost of a decent inverter is more than a cheap inverter, let alone the mark up and marketing and profit margins etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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