Jump to content

which inverter

macc

By macc
in Boat Equipment

 Share

Featured Posts

nicknorman Veteran II

nicknormanDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted (edited)

so thats cheap LEDs and cheap inverters that are likely to spontaneously combust.... The reality is that a cheaper device MAY contain inferior components or be of a 'lower standard' however you define that, but properly installed and protected by appropriate fuses/circuit breakers I can't see how these pose any greater fire risk than a 'better unit'.

 

I think I'm with Dave _p unless you need to run something exotic like a very fancy hi-fi system then I would not pay the extra for a pure sine wave over a quasi/msw inverter.

Of course you may buy something cheap and it may well be fine. I'm not trying to suggest that all cheap inverters will catch fire. But I am trying to suggest that the probability of that happening, even if low, is greater than for a mainstream make.

 

I you recall its been correctly said on this forum that fusing is there to protect the wiring, not the device. So for a 2kw inverter with say 50mm^2 cable, a 200A fuse will happily protect the cable and allow the inverter to run at full power with some overload. But that same 200A fuse will not trip at 190A. So if an internal fault on an inverter is causing it to drain 190A, that's around 2.25 kw and if you have that much heat generated in a small box, to quote Scotty, "she's gunna blow!"

 

So if you imagine that fusing is going to stop an electrical device from going on fire, you are sadly mistaken.

Edited by nicknorman
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Pykebird Rising Star

Pykebird

Posted
Posted

Both my 3kw PSW and my charger are sterling, not by deliberate choice. The invertor was second hand off a friend who had trouble running a washing machine (only had 1 leisure battery, I later found out).

I admit I nearly ripped their arm off when they suggested a price.! the charger was also second hand, came out of one of our "project" boats. Both work fine and run everything I could wish for.

In an ideal world, I would love a victron, but for now will just have to settle for the victron battery Monotor!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 4 months later...
NorthwichTrader Proficient

NorthwichTrader

Posted
Posted

thanks for replies my have to change my mind to mastervolt, ely chandlers are doing a good price on them was looking at the http://www.ebcmarineandleisure.co.uk/combi-inverter-and-charger/mastervolt-mass-combi-12v/2000w-100a but is 2000w 2000w or 2000va.

I was just browsing this thread, and wondered (and this really is a silly one), does the 2000w component of this unit mean (and I can't imagine I'd need to do this) that you couldn't, for example, use a 2200w appliance (a big kettle, say)?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Paul's Nulife4-2 Influencer

Paul's Nulife4-2

Posted
Posted (edited)

Sorry to bump this one, but it would clear a thing or two up for me...

Does the 2000w rating of an inverter quite literally mean that you couldn't, for example, power a 2200w appliance with it?

Hi ya, Normally an inverter will be rated along the same lines as a generator,

If the model says it's a 2000 w, that will probably be it's short term ,or start up maximum capacity for a few minutes. But it will be more comfortable runing at say 1700 w for longer periods of time.

So in order to run something @ your 2200w example,you would probably need a 2500w monster & a good battery bank. Or a generator !.

Having said that,I'm sure there will be exceptions to this rule on some models.

Edited by Paul's Nulife4-2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
MoominPapa Veteran II

MoominPapa

Posted
Posted

I also have a Prosine 1800i, One of the very first made in 2000. Still going strong in it's fourteen year of liveaboard service.

We have one as well. Was on the boat when we bought it in 2008, and not new then.

 

Has been flawless apart from small problem with a very electrocuted spider inside the works.

 

MP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
nicknorman Veteran II

nicknormanDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted

Sorry to bump this one, but it would clear a thing or two up for me...

Does the 2000w rating of an inverter quite literally mean that you couldn't, for example, power a 2200w appliance with it?

Yes, unless the appliance was only on for moments, although I can't think of such an appliance. The 2000w rating (on a quality inverter) is the continuous power that the inverter can supply, with a unity power factor. So if you want to run a resistive load such as a kettle, you can have a 2kw kettle. But if you wanted to run a 2kw inductive load (such as a big motor) you couldn't. If you run a 2.2kw resistive load, it will run for a few moments (depending on the overload capability of the inverter) and then the inverter will probably cut out. But operating your expensive inverter like that won't be good for it long term.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Paul's Nulife4-2 Influencer

Paul's Nulife4-2

Posted
Posted (edited)

Yes, unless the appliance was only on for moments, although I can't think of such an appliance. The 2000w rating (on a quality inverter) is the continuous power that the inverter can supply, with a unity power factor. So if you want to run a resistive load such as a kettle, you can have a 2kw kettle. But if you wanted to run a 2kw inductive load (such as a big motor) you couldn't. If you run a 2.2kw resistive load, it will run for a few moments (depending on the overload capability of the inverter) and then the inverter will probably cut out. But operating your expensive inverter like that won't be good for it long term.

Oh ok,,scratch my earlier post,,I was just going by my Mastervolt 2500 model,,Rated at an amazing 4000 Surge,,2500 P30 (30mins I think) ,,BUT ONLY 2000 Continuous (though regularly run 2200 for long periods). But I must have read it wrong.

Edited by Paul's Nulife4-2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
nicknorman Veteran II

nicknormanDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted (edited)

Do you mind me asking what sort of 2200w equipment might be run for long periods? I just want to make sure I'm not overlooking anything with the planning of our 'early stage' project!

Some electric kettles are over 2kw, but we chose one that was 2kw. Of course that doesn't run for a very long period, maybe 5 mins. Most other stuff is 2kw or less except: full size washing machine on heat cycle. Fan heater on 3 kw setting. It's worth bearing in mind that a standard shore power system is 16A which is around 3.5kw.

 

Personally I would go for a 2.5kw inverter, but that is probably just because it's what we've got! You have to bear in mind that you might have several other small things on such as TV, laptop and phone chargers etc so if you want to run a 2kw load with a 2kw inverter their extra (modest) load might be too much. Also bear in mind that some devices have very high startup current, eg our Dyson vacuum, which only takes 1kw or less when running, won't start from our 2.5kw inverter without it shutting off due to overload.

 

Finally I would say that electrical equipment doesn't really like operating continuously on its rated limit. You may get better life from a modestly over-rated inverter

Oh ok,,scratch my earlier post,,I was just going by my Mastervolt 2500 model,,Rated at an amazing 4000 Surge,,2500 P30 (30mins I think) ,,BUT ONLY 2000 Continuous (though regularly run 2200 for long periods). But I must have read it wrong.

I wouldn't say you are necessarily wrong because specifications change, but the manual for our Mastervolt 2500 Combi quotes 2500w continuous and 4000w surge for 5 seconds (which still isn't enough to start the vacuum cleanly!). That is up to 25deg C ambient temperature, it is derated if the temperature exceeds 25 deg.

 

Anyway, the rule is to read the specs properly and not just rely on the "headline" power output.

Edited by nicknorman
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Paul's Nulife4-2 Influencer

Paul's Nulife4-2

Posted
Posted (edited)

Do you mind me asking what sort of 2200w equipment might be run for long periods? I just want to make sure I'm not overlooking anything with the planning of our 'early stage' project!

I run a Washing Machine,,Dish Washer,,Tumble Dryer,,Microwave with Combination Grill,,Vacuum,,Normally one at a time ofcourse, but I also run other bits n bobs whilst they are on like Dehumidifier,,TV,Satalight,,Freezer,,pluss lots of very low wattage stuff as well.

So when cruising, it's in use every day for a cpl of hrs to some degree,using any combination of the above up to around the 2000 / 2200 w ish.

 

I've just got the basic Mastervolt Dakar 2500 unit,,& am very happy with the 6 yrs service it had given me as a CCr. But as nicknorman suggests,go for the biggest capacity you can afford,,with a good big battery bank,you don't have to use it all.

Edited by Paul's Nulife4-2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
nicknorman Veteran II

nicknormanDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted (edited)

The other thing that can affect inverter max output is the cabling to the batteries, and the number of batteries. Inverters producing 2kw+ use a lot of current and the inverter may shut off if the voltage drop due to internal resistance of the batteries, the cabling, the fuse and the isolator causes the voltage at the inverter to go below the minimum. You may also find that the max output power is derated as the voltage reaching the inverter goes below say 11v.

 

Position the inverter close to the batteries!

Edited by nicknorman
Link to comment
Share on other sites
nicknorman Veteran II

nicknormanDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted (edited)

Are we talking within the confines of an engine room (7' 7" in my case) or literally as close as is practically possible to the floor-stored batteries?

Like all these things there is no "right answer", just as close as reasonably practicable. No point in having it on the opposite side of the engine room to the batteries, when it could be on the same side. If you have longer cables, they need to be thicker. For example my Mastervolt 2500 inverter specifies 70mm2 cable for up to 2 metres, with fatter cable being required for greater than 2 metres. 2 metres may sound a fair bit but once you have actually routed the cable it's not that much.

 

But equally it must be in a dry location and with adequate ventilation, because they can chuck our a lot of warm air when working hard.

Edited by nicknorman
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Robbo Veteran II

Robbo

Posted
Posted

Can I charge a 24v AND 12v system independently with a combi? I'm now toying with 24v starter and going for a 12v system! I can maybe put a solar panel on for the 24v starter and have the combi for the domestics? Would have 2 alternators!

 

I would just use the one voltage, makes things a lot simpler and easier to change if you wish in the future. If you have a 24v system you won't need as thick cables, but getting some of the "appliances" will be harder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
nicknorman Veteran II

nicknormanDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted

Can I charge a 24v AND 12v system independently with a combi? I'm now toying with 24v starter and going for a 12v system! I can maybe put a solar panel on for the 24v starter and have the combi for the domestics? Would have 2 alternators!

No, as far as I know you would have to get a separate 24v charger, but since this would be just for keeping the engine batteries topped up it would only need to be small. However, unless you are planning to leave the engine stopped for months at a time, or run other services from it, I wouldn't have thought it would need charging other than by the engine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.