Historic Boats for sale online

[Athy]

From talking to people who have sold butties, you wouldn't believe how often the "what kind of engine does it have?" question is asked.

Really? "The Dobbin single-horsepower model" perhaps?

You may know the house at Claydon Top, former Oxford Canal workshops I believe. The canal artist Jane Selkirk and her husband lived there for some years. When they put it on the market, Jane told me that they had prospective buyers asking "Where do you park your car?", "Is that the garage?" etc. despite the estate agent's shitsheet information brochure clearly stating that there was NO ROAD ACCESS.

(The Selkirks used to park two locks down, where there was a narrow lane; they kept a wheelbarrow there, which they used to transport their groceries home).

[zenataomm]

ER, it's a butty, Zen, hence there is no engine. As the hold is open, I would guess that it has just the fold-down (nominally) double bed in the back cabin.

 

C'mon Athy, you don't normally fire from the hip without checking what the target is.

 

Having experienced the selling of Marcellus as a butty, I was astonished at the numbers asking dumb questions.

And then when having had it pointed out to them that it is a cargo carrying Butty Boat with a cabin as lived in by a boatman and his family in the 30s, the response often was ........

"Yeah I know, so what kind of engine does it have then?"

[Athy]

 

C'mon Athy, you don't normally fire from the hip without checking what the target is.

 

 

Er, not entirely sure what you mean. But it is probably some years since I could be considered remotely hip.

I know from experience that many casual waterways users (which might include prospective buyers) do not know what a butty is, unless it includes two slices of bread.

[zenataomm]

Doh! ....Athy .........

 

I said: -

"What sort of engine?

How many berths?

.................... being just two of the questions that will be flooding in from London Town direction."

 

Trying to suggest that's the kind of questions the non boating, living for free in London brigade will be asking.

 

But thanks for explaining to me.

[Athy]

Doh! ....Athy .........

 

I said: -

"What sort of engine?

How many berths?

.................... being just two of the questions that will be flooding in from London Town direction."

 

Trying to suggest that's the kind of questions the non boating, living for free in London brigade will be asking.

 

But thanks for explaining to me.

My pleasure. Actually I wasn't sure what you meant by the London Town bit, so thanks for explaining to me.

[roland elsdon]

Would be a shame to cut loads of town class motors. Could sell fenny buy back thaxted and Alperton and be back in the 80s. For 75000, except there would be nowhere to tie 140ft anymore. Just got hard stare from Sue.

[alan_fincher]

Has Princess Anne been mentioned?

[AMModels]

Has Princess Anne been mentioned?

no I think Id have noticed..

 

How many kidneys is that do you reckon?

[Athy]

Arguably better looking than the original. Where in Derbyshire; Langley Mill basin?

Not sure about the "renovated Boatman's stove" - they don't cost much to buy new. I wonder if it's actually a back cabin range rather than a Boatman's?

[Derek R.]

Depends which stove is fitted. New ones like Epping aka Classic are efficient but featureless (and overpriced), whereas Guidwife; Larbert; Nipper and maybe some others are worth fixing up if at all possible.

 

Classic; Larbert & Nipper:

 

 

A swift 'Google' - http://www.ilkcam.com/Archived/2008/0706LangMill.html

Edited April 20, 2016 by Derek R.

[Athy]

Depends which stove is fitted.

Yes, but these are not a Boatman's stove which is a cheap & cheerful small solid fuel stove, not a range.

[stagedamager]

I thought that the Princess Anne was at Egginton??

The only tug at Langley Mill is the Judith Anne.

Regards

Dan

[alan_fincher]

Has Princess Anne been mentioned?

 

For those like myself struggling to remember which boat it was originally it was GUCCCo "Plato".

 

I had forgotten it is still composite with wooden bottoms - quite rare now, nearly all the composite "Stars" have had bottoms changed to steel I think. (Athough I'm currently moored just up from one that has not, namely Sculptor).

[AMModels]

 

For those like myself struggling to remember which boat it was originally it was GUCCCo "Plato".

 

I had forgotten it is still composite with wooden bottoms - quite rare now, nearly all the composite "Stars" have had bottoms changed to steel I think. (Athough I'm currently moored just up from one that has not, namely Sculptor).

 

She wasnt cut down until after she finished carrying with Elements, she was a full length carrying tug for them until at least 67/8.

[alan_fincher]

 

She wasnt cut down until after she finished carrying with Elements, she was a full length carrying tug for them until at least 67/8.

 

It wouldn't be the first time an HNBC "history" page was wrong, but I hadn't actually spotted that when I posted it!

[AMModels]

 

It wouldn't be the first time an HNBC "history" page was wrong, but I hadn't actually spotted that when I posted it!

Sorry I wasnt criticising just pointing out the error on the HNBC page, shes still the dream boat though.

[alan_fincher]

Sorry I wasnt criticising just pointing out the error on the HNBC page, shes still the dream boat though.

 

I didn't take it as a criticsm.

 

Lovely though she is, I'm kind of surprised that the "asking" for a nicely presented "Grand Union", shortened or otherwise, now seems to be in the mid £50Ks.

 

I suppose time will tell whether such prices are achievable.

[MtB]

Yes, but these are not a Boatman's stove which is a cheap & cheerful small solid fuel stove, not a range.

 

I think Mr Athy is drawing a distinction between a "Boatman Stove" as manufactured by Northern Fabrications for £300 and a 'boatman's stove' (with lower case 'b') being a colloquial name for a back cabin range.

[Paul H]

 

She wasnt cut down until after she finished carrying with Elements, she was a full length carrying tug for them until at least 67/8.

I've always been a bit confused on the history of this wonderful boat. Malcolm Braine told me once that he had lengthened it and then later re-shortened it but I don't know for whom.. I also remember seeing a photo of it with a rudimentary conversion at some point.

 

I've asked this before but why were tugs cut down to 55-60ft? It wasn't to do the Leeds and Liverpool! I can understand why Vesta, Tug No 2 etc. were cut to around 40ft so that they could turn almost anywhere but a 57ft tug would seem to have little advantage over 70ft and the cost of shortening would probably be more than the boat was then worth. Was it possible to wind a 57ft boat in Anglesea or Hednesford basins and not a 70ft?

 

Anyway Princess Anne is indeed a lovely boat and was already generating a lot of interest when it was known to be available but not yet advertised. Most people are scared of the wooden bottom though.

 

As for which GU motor boats still have wooden bottoms - very few! Sculptor, Princess Anne, Mercury, Denebola spring to mind. A wooden bottom is a pain in a converted boat as it is awkward getting to the chine bolts but in an open boat I don't really see the problem.

 

Paul

[AMModels]

I've always been a bit confused on the history of this wonderful boat. Malcolm Braine told me once that he had lengthened it and then later re-shortened it but I don't know for whom.. I also remember seeing a photo of it with a rudimentary conversion at some point.

 

I've asked this before but why were tugs cut down to 55-60ft? It wasn't to do the Leeds and Liverpool! I can understand why Vesta, Tug No 2 etc. were cut to around 40ft so that they could turn almost anywhere but a 57ft tug would seem to have little advantage over 70ft and the cost of shortening would probably be more than the boat was then worth. Was it possible to wind a 57ft boat in Anglesea or Hednesford basins and not a 70ft?

 

Anyway Princess Anne is indeed a lovely boat and was already generating a lot of interest when it was known to be available but not yet advertised. Most people are scared of the wooden bottom though.

 

As for which GU motor boats still have wooden bottoms - very few! Sculptor, Princess Anne, Mercury, Denebola spring to mind. A wooden bottom is a pain in a converted boat as it is awkward getting to the chine bolts but in an open boat I don't really see the problem.

 

Paul

 

I used to think she was around with Elements in her shortened form and made models of her in that format, when I showed my grandad though he asked why because he had never had her shorter than full length and all the photos I have seem to confirm this, I did see a photo a while back of PA on the blocks at Norton Canes she looked full length so I thought that was when she was shortened.

 

She did have a funny conversion on at one point, it was built to the same outline as the rest of the cabin but there was a gap between the two and it was probably about 10ft+ long but that could have been the angle on the photo. Sadly although I saw the photos I never got copies of them but it was circa 1970 maybe a bit earlier when she had the second cabin.

 

Im pretty sure a 70ft boat could turn at Anglesey without a problem but maybe there were other places that they couldnt wind at.

 

I see what you mean about a wooden bottom on a converted boat and the difference with an unconverted one, most people see a wooden bottom as a negative sadly, replacement costs, perceived weakness and risk of sinking. Should my lucky numbers ever come up on the lotto though she would keep that wooden bum but then I would be tempted to find some plates to fill the missing bits in so Id be just as guilty as anyone who replaced the bottom in steel.

 

 

this is the latest photo I could find, it was taken just prior to the contract ending so early '68.

Edited April 20, 2016 by AMModels

[FadeToScarlet]

I like how Birmingham is as exotic and undiscovered as Athens and Brazil!

[RLWP]

I like how Birmingham is as exotic and undiscovered as Athens and Brazil!

 

What's more, it has the cuisine of both and many others

 

Richard

[Athy]

 

I think Mr Athy is drawing a distinction between a "Boatman Stove" as manufactured by Northern Fabrications for £300 and a 'boatman's stove' (with lower case 'b') being a colloquial name for a back cabin range.

Yes, and so will some prospective buyers, because that's what it generally refers to. Never heard a back cabin range called a boatman's stove, though as we all know that it's in the boatman's cabin*, it does make sense.

 

 

* don't we...?

 

For those like myself struggling to remember which boat it was originally it was GUCCCo "Plato".

 

I had forgotten it is still composite with wooden bottoms - quite rare now, nearly all the composite "Stars" have had bottoms changed to steel I think. (Athough I'm currently moored just up from one that has not, namely Sculptor).

Please forgive this rather basic question, but if one doesn't ask, one won't find out: why were some boats built "composite", which I assume means with a wooden bottom and metal sides? Why not all metal? Was it a question of cost?

[Ray T]

 

Please forgive this rather basic question, but if one doesn't ask, one won't find out: why were some boats built "composite", which I assume means with a wooden bottom and metal sides? Why not all metal? Was it a question of cost?

 

 

From the various historical books I have read one reason could be ease of replacement. As working boats tended to spend the majority of their lives low in the water the bottom of the hull could and did get damaged.

 

In one of Tom Foxon's book he relates where his boat, with a wooden bottom, encountered a sunken safe and damaged some of the planks.

 

Wood planks being easier, quicker and cheaper to replace. Also the boat would be out of service for less time.

 

E.T.A. Having spoken to "my" historic narrowboat captain today, he recons wooden bottomed boats "swim" better.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Ray T

[Derek R.]

Yes, and so will some prospective buyers, because that's what it generally refers to. Never heard a back cabin range called a boatman's stove, though as we all know that it's in the boatman's cabin*, it does make sense.

 

 

* don't we...?

(Snipped)

Yes to the latter (at least from me), though I'd not heard of the "Boatman's Stove" by Northern Fabrications until perusing their website. Seem to have an enthusiastic following. I did also wonder if Mr Athy meant a bottle stove as might have been found in some early cabin boats, though nowadays such titles appear to be stoves manufactured from old gas bottles. Oh well, back to boats.

 

PRINCESS ANNE looks very desirable.