MtB Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 I have the benefit of over 40 years researching these boats, and the circa 3000 photographs of them all taken by me are a helpful source of reference I know. Hence my inclination to accept what you wrote in preference to what I thought I could see in the photos! I have enormous respect for your diligence and depth of knowledge. As do many on here, in case you weren't sure. MtB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete harrison Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 I have enormous respect for your diligence and depth of knowledge. As do many on here, in case you weren't sure. MtB Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenataomm Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Yes me too. That bow doesn't look to me like a butty stern, although Pete is usually (no, always!) right about stuff like this. Where did the elum hang? And I had 25 years experience of owning the other end of Rigal, and can assure you that although both bits have new counters I had the front end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete harrison Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 And I had 25 years experience of owning the other end of Rigal, and can assure you that although both bits have new counters I had the front end. Do I need to make a correction then as I have you as the owner from 1983 to September 2000 (17 years, with the previous owner being Richard Bird and the following Ron Wilson). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Lol, busted!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 (edited) As is quite common with the conversions the triangular top part of the stern post has been rounded off and the bracket that supports the bottom pintal has been cut off. When I was at Braunston Historic Boats 3-4 years ago I wondered over to the yard below the bottom lock where Achilles was being cut into two. Both ends were on the dock, and the butty stern was in the process of being turned into a bow. The shape of Small Woolwich butty top bends at bow and stern are virtually identical, so with the anser pin loops and the lower ellum pintle ground off, all that is needed is to round over the top of the sternpost, to the same shape as the stem, and you would be hard pressed to tell the difference. Edited August 3, 2015 by David Mack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted August 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 When I was at Braunston Historic Boats 3-4 years ago I wondered over to the yard below the bottom lock where Achilles was being cut into two. Both ends were on the dock, and the butty stern was in the process of being turned into a bow. The shape of Small Woolwich butty top bends at bow and stern are virtually identical, so with the anser pin loops and the lower ellum pintle ground off, all that is needed is to round over the top of the sternpost, to the same shape as the stem, and you would be hard pressed to tell the difference. Sadly the same fate has just occurred for another "Small Woolwich" on the same dock, in the latest case it is Argo. I doubt it will be the last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcat Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 Sad but better than razor blades. Junior needs a butty . Somebody better tell him . Make a lovely home with a conversion. Big Woolwich butty makes the best one as there's a lot of internal space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 Sadly the same fate has just occurred for another "Small Woolwich" on the same dock, in the latest case it is Argo. I doubt it will be the last. They'll be classed as semi-historic, then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenataomm Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 Do I need to make a correction then as I have you as the owner from 1983 to September 2000 (17 years, with the previous owner being Richard Bird and the following Ron Wilson). Good Strewthness Pete you're only right! In my defence I confused myself with another boat I owned which was firstly mine and then my company's and then I bought it back. While you're on Pete, can you tell me where my spare specs are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete harrison Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 While you're on Pete, can you tell me where my spare specs are? Only if they were made by a recognised 'historic' boat builder, and they are certainly not on any 'yard lists' that I have here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 Only if they were made by a recognised 'historic' boat builder, and they are certainly not on any 'yard lists' that I have here Oh now that immediately prompts my weird way of thinking to wonder which historic boat builders are the unrecognised ones. But I guess you can't list them or that would make them recognised... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete harrison Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 Oh now that immediately prompts my weird way of thinking to wonder which historic boat builders are the unrecognised ones. But I guess you can't list them or that would make them recognised... Correct. There were numerous boat builders that produced several narrow boat and have good and credible records, and much of these are freely available. There were even more boat builders that built few or even one offs that are harder to prove as their records either do not exist or their production details are only by word of mouth. I suspect that I am aware of less than 10% of all narrow boat builders throughout the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larkshall Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 Theres a link in the ebay ad to the Apollo duck one. And frankly if people need to ask those questions I don't want them as buyers. You ought to experience the idiots we have had on the phone recently! Low audio log, please pretty please. I made the idiot mistake of helping a mate with his fowler showmans engine a few weeks ago, you can imagine the questions. I'm going to write them up and put them on an information board for the next show. Just a couple that spring to mind:- How fast does it go? Why is it so quiet? Why has it got two generators? How much water coal does it use. Why do you leave it running all the time? Etch etc etc. Oh the answers? 20mph, dunno mate they are all that quiet, one generator is the exciter for the main one. Coal/ water depends on how fast we go. As for leaving it running, the usual answer is "it ain't got a starter switch". Anyone who shows genuine interest I'll spend all the time in the world with. Eg one couple had their young daughter with them and we had no young lass for the ladies race. She was about thirteen, really really enjoyed racing around the arena in a fifteen ton smoke belching monster. Couldn't believe we let her drive it. Took her back to parents covered in soot smuts, and an ear to ear grin, my mate got a long hand written letter from her last week thanking us. But again she really wanted to know what hard work the old drivers had in the old days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek R. Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 Brilliant when that happens! Dump the ipod - grab that shovel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greywolf Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Low audio log, please pretty please. I made the idiot mistake of helping a mate with his fowler showmans engine a few weeks ago, you can imagine the questions. I'm going to write them up and put them on an information board for the next show. Just a couple that spring to mind:- How fast does it go? Why is it so quiet? Why has it got two generators? How much water coal does it use. Why do you leave it running all the time? Etch etc etc. Oh the answers? 20mph, dunno mate they are all that quiet, one generator is the exciter for the main one. Coal/ water depends on how fast we go. As for leaving it running, the usual answer is "it ain't got a starter switch". Anyone who shows genuine interest I'll spend all the time in the world with. Eg one couple had their young daughter with them and we had no young lass for the ladies race. She was about thirteen, really really enjoyed racing around the arena in a fifteen ton smoke belching monster. Couldn't believe we let her drive it. Took her back to parents covered in soot smuts, and an ear to ear grin, my mate got a long hand written letter from her last week thanking us. But again she really wanted to know what hard work the old drivers had in the old days. Doh well thats all my questions gone LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kris88 Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) Now for a proper old boat for sale, well out of my price range unfortunately. https://m.apolloduck.com/feature.phtml?id=437687&rid=gb&cid=4&z=gb4 Regards kris Edited August 6, 2015 by kris88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughty Cal Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Now for a proper old boat for sale, well out of my price range unfortunately. https://m.apolloduck.com/feature.phtml?id=437687&rid=gb&cid=4&z=gb4 Regards kris Nice boat. Fit out is not to my taste but that is easy enough to remedy. I wonder how much the mooring is pushing up the price though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larkshall Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) Right before I make an appt to view, will someone here tell me what they know about Albion engines, and the gearbox fitted. I know the marina, and yes that does really colour the boat cost. I've seen the boat there, I didn't realise the interior was as grim as it is, and would reflect any price I offered. I think id have to rip out and renew the interior, and plumbing and heating. Depending on what you guys say about the engine, I will make an appointment to view. Edited August 6, 2015 by larkshall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kris88 Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) I don't know much about Albion engines in boats, they used to make buses and trucks if I remember right. I'm sure someone will be along with chapter and verse though. It is a bit disconcerting that there aren't any photos of the engine room, some better photos of the engine would be good as we'll. Regards kris Why not go and have a look anyway. Edited August 6, 2015 by kris88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larkshall Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 I probably will, I have friends nearby Thanks Kris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 I probably will, I have friends nearby Thanks Kris Leave your cheque book at home Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) Right before I make an appt to view, will someone here tell me what they know about Albion engines, and the gearbox fitted. Albion are low-cost lorry engines from the fifties IIRC, for those who couldn't afford a Gardner at the time! Twin Disc is a well regarded modern gearbox. Edited August 6, 2015 by Mike the Boilerman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larkshall Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Funny that truck drivers of that era hated gardners, thanks to your prompt though I now remember Albion bus engines, duh I'm getting dumb in my dotage. Am off to view Sat afternoon then show up west in the evening ( might as well). Making list of questions, why both 24 and 12 volt systems? One for you though before I ring round, surveyors do they charge by size of Hull? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Albion was a Scots firm which built buses and lorries. They became part of Leyland about 1970. They did build their own "Albion Oil Engine" range, but some of their vehicles had Gardner engines and it would be logical to assume that later ones had Leyland ones. I am not sure whether they supplied engines to outside firms; this boat is quite likely to have the lump from a scrapped Albion lorry or bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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