Which boat builder

[GUMPY]

Can anyone identify the builder of this hull from the sterngear?

I have some ideas but nothing concrete

 

[Chertsey]

Are we not allowed to see the whole boat or would that spoil the fun?

 

And I'm not very technical, but is that actually the sterngear?

[Liam]

You can recognise some shells from their arse after end, but I'm personally better in recognising boatbuilders from a picture of the fore end. Do you have one you could post?

 

Edited to add: It's also nice to see a shell builder using a more robust affair for their rudder stock than the usual 3/4 bent bar and feeble looking bearing!

[GUMPY]

The bow photo that I have looks nothing like it does in real life so would be misleading.

The tiller bearing and dollys are fairly distinctive and are not dissimilar to a Hudson but AFAIK his always had his name on them and I'm sure he never supplied shells for other companies to fit out.

I know who did the fit out, Phoenix and they disappeared in the last century, but am trying to work out who did the steel work before I actually buy the boat.

[Chubby Chaser]

It may be Jonathan Wilson / Tim Tyler. Phoenix used their steelwork for a lot of their boats. The internal design is a variation of Drimble 2. You'll be in good company if you buy a Phoenix boat. David Suchet owns/owned City Of Sheffield.

[RLWP]

The bow photo that I have looks nothing like it does in real life so would be misleading.

The tiller bearing and dollys are fairly distinctive and are not dissimilar to a Hudson but AFAIK his always had his name on them and I'm sure he never supplied shells for other companies to fit out.

I know who did the fit out, Phoenix and they disappeared in the last century, but am trying to work out who did the steel work before I actually buy the boat.

 

What does it say on the BSS certificate?

 

Richard

[GUMPY]

AFAIK it says Phoenix but they never did steelwork only fitting out hence my question.

I think that its Tim Tyler as having looked at a JW shell there are some significant differences

Edited May 10, 2012 by idleness

[bizzard]

Putting the fuel tank breather on the mooring dolly is not good practice in my opinion ''too vulnerable'' whoever the builder is.

[Tiggers]

I really dont think this is Tim Tyler's work. There is a couple of share boats in the marina that look very similar, let me do some more digging...

[alan_fincher]

Although I think they have differed a bit over the years, it doesn't "feel" like a Wilson to me - can't really say why - just it doesn't.

 

I'm less familiar with Tyler, but don't his shells tend to feature quite a few fancy bits around things like front cants ? Or are there some earlier ones that remain fairly plain ? (Not that we can see the front end here, but I'm sure it might yield some clues).

 

How old is the boat supposed to be ?

[nicknorman]

The bow photo that I have looks nothing like it does in real life so would be misleading.

The tiller bearing and dollys are fairly distinctive and are not dissimilar to a Hudson but AFAIK his always had his name on them and I'm sure he never supplied shells for other companies to fit out.

I know who did the fit out, Phoenix and they disappeared in the last century, but am trying to work out who did the steel work before I actually buy the boat.

Definitely not Hudson, he doesn't put the fuel tank in the counter nor vent in the dolly, and rudder bearing is wrong anyway. Swans neck is too insubstantial. Steve doesn't put vents in the doors, they are hooded type in the aft bulkhead. Apart from all that it's close!

 

How about Stoke on Trent Boatbuilders? (just a guess). Does Jim Shead have anything to say on the subject?

Edited May 10, 2012 by nicknorman

[GUMPY]

 

How about Stoke on Trent Boatbuilders? (just a guess). Does Jim Shead have anything to say on the subject?

All the documentation and Jim S says Phoenix, as I said they never did steel work, its a 97 vintage

[Keeping Up]

How about Stoke on Trent Boatbuilders? (just a guess). Does Jim Shead have anything to say on the subject?

 

I've never seen that style of rudder bearing on a Stoke on Trent boat

[matty40s]

I've never seen that style of rudder bearing on a Stoke on Trent boat

 

I would be really wary of vents that low down the back doors seeing how much water comes from the top lock gates whilst going down sometimes.

On several occasions recently I have had to close the rear doors completely to stop the back cabin getting flooded.Vents that low would worry me.

[Chertsey]

I would be really wary of vents that low down the back doors seeing how much water comes from the top lock gates whilst going down sometimes.

On several occasions recently I have had to close the rear doors completely to stop the back cabin getting flooded.Vents that low would worry me.

I've got vents in that position in one of my back doors, but they still do a good job of keeping the water out in situations such as you describe. I've never given it a thought and never noticed any water ingress through them. And I don't have the option of moving forward away from the leaky gates.

[johnthebridge]

It's got a Denis Cooper/CTS look about it.

[billS]

Tha stern shapes and angles look exactly like my 1999 Reeves hull - as does the breather in the dolly. The rudder bearing and diesel cap are completely different though.

Edited May 10, 2012 by billS

[STUBAG]

Tha stern shapes and angles look exactly like my 1999 Reeves hull - as does the breather in the dolly. The rudder bearing and diesel cap are completely different though.

Should we do this by a process of elimination? It definitly is NOT a Hesford Marine OR a Geoff Pilling boat! Next........

[Paul H]

Although Jonathan Wilson supplied many of the boats, they used Norton Canes shells for at least a couple.

 

Perhaps this is one of those. Can we see the bow please?

 

Paul

Edited May 10, 2012 by Paul H

[Chubby Chaser]

Here's the link: http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/advert.phtml?id=246769 Norton Canes are highly regarded for their steelwork. You will see the Phoenix trademark tunnel light on the cratch.

[Albion]

Although Jonathan Wilson supplied many of the boats, they used Norton Canes shells for at least a couple.

 

Perhaps this is one of those. Can we see the bow please?

 

Paul

 

 

Here's the link: http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/advert.phtml?id=246769 Norton Canes are highly regarded for their steelwork. You will see the Phoenix trademark tunnel light on the cratch.

 

The bow doesn't look like Graham's (Norton Canes) pre Josher-style bow to me and neither does the scalloped treatment of the front edge of the cabin side panels. Take a look at this early Norton Canes that could well interest Proper Job Trelawny

In those days Graham didn't do any fit outs in the yard so any things such as the positioning of vents etc would be down to the choice of the fitter outer. Blue Haven fitted out a few NC shells.

Roger

[Ray T]

One of the give aways of a Reeves hull is the shape of the arrow head at the forward end of the top rubbing strake at the back. Unfortunately I don't have a good enough picture.

 

The ends of the top rails on a Reeves hull are rounded not square as on Pheonix so I don't think it is a Reeves hull.

 

Interesting to note it says built by Phoenix Narrowboats of Coventry and the Pheonix is part of Coventry Citys coat of arms.

 

 

 

Edited May 10, 2012 by Ray T

[johnthebridge]

The bow doesn't look like Graham's (Norton Canes) pre Josher-style bow to me and neither does the scalloped treatment of the front edge of the cabin side panels.

Roger

 

The cabinside treatment you refer to and the fore end still make me think, as per my earlier post, that it's one of Denis Cooper's (Canal Transport Services) boats. For those who don't know, CTS were the first of the "modern" builders at Norton Canes (1964), are still in business under Denis's son, and are neighbours of Norton Canes Boatbuilders. They built some lovely little "Hampton" class tugs in the late '60s/early '70s.

 

Incidentally, re my earlier post, having looked at the Duck ad, if that is a CTS boat at that money and it's in good nick, then it would appear to be a very good purchase.

Edited May 10, 2012 by johnthebridge

[GUMPY]

We are going for it , however we have to wait for a deposit on Parglena before we can proceed as we don't have that much spare cash lying about.

[sarahavfc]

It's not a Norton Canes.

 

I'd go with those who think its a Jonathan Wilson.