Narrowboats at sea

[Tam & Di]

The steering position is another issue, I wouldn't fancy either trad or cruiser stern in any sort of 'weather', though the traditional layout does give some shelter. I think Chris Coburn's boat has wheel steering from inside as an option, though I might have imagined that.

 

Tim

 

Chris does not have a wheel option as far as I am aware. We did join Chris and a couple of small barges just off shore from Dunkerque on one of the small ship events, and the square chine of Progress did seem to make it more stable than some of the other craft out there. Another aspect of this though is do you go alone or do you have crew? If you have crew, where are they? Not stood on the gunwhale I trust, but I for one would not like to spend a crossing inside a steel cigar tube which is rocking and rolling and where the only exit is from the stern (as the front end has to be sealed very securely to prevent waves breaking through). Chris crosses in company with a safety boat, and so did Darlington as far as I could understand what he wrote. I believe Chris works on the principle that he can afford to write off the cost of Progress should it sink, as insurance would be prohibitive.

 

At Twickenham market on Saturday we met a woman who said she and her husband were planning to cross to France in their narrow boat, rafted up to another one. She was absolutely adamant that they would have no trouble at all like this. Now that really is a recipe for disaster. I've been out from Limehouse with an empty pair a few times, and on the first occasion very nearly came a cropper by being breasted up pretty much as if we were on a canal. We started with the fore ends tied conventionally with a line from the tee stud of one to the stud of the other, but once we were out on the river we found we needed a line from the mast of each boat to the stud of the other as well to reduce the sawing motion between the two. After that and having talked with various boatmen who had done it we always put tyres between the boats to allow crud to float down between the pair and minimise the risk of it building up between the two fore ends. We also took a line from the back end rail of the motor, under the two boats and back to the rail to prevent them leaning in towards each other and slamming back each time we met a wave. But that was just the Thames - a 15+ hour Channel crossing and meeting waves from ferries and such other craft with two little modern narrow beam pleasure boats does not bear thinking about.

Edited May 23, 2011 by Tam & Di

[onionbargee]

Anyone seriously considering going out to sea in a narrowboat needs to be in secure accomodation, full stop.

 

There is no part of a narrowboat that has anything to do with sea going craft, they are not even happy on small rivers. Thats like driving a tractor on a motorway, no chance.

[DandV]

Another problem I foresee is in that narrowboats would be extremely prone to lifting both their propeller and rudder, at least partially out of the water, when in either a head or following sea with a wave lengths near hull length.

Rudder lift would result in loss of directional control, and prop lift alternative loading and unloading the engine, with both loss of effective power and steering as well as possible engine damage. Wave facing boats generally have deeper rudders and props, which are also generally located further from the stern.

 

Cheers from a current salt water sailor now intending to spend a lot of money on a boat that I certainly would not consider sea worthy.

 

Don

[David Schweizer]

Anyone seriously considering going out to sea in a narrowboat needs to be in secure accomodation, full stop.

 

There is no part of a narrowboat that has anything to do with sea going craft, they are not even happy on small rivers. Thats like driving a tractor on a motorway, no chance.

I am not sure that I would agree with you there, The only thing unhappy about going on rivers in our boat is me, as I cannot swim, and would not be able to walk to the bank if I fell in.

 

I have taken our boat on Rivers and apart from an increase in speed at the same engine speeds, have not noticed any significant difference. Admittedly our boat, at 33", is much deeper draugted than many modern recreational narrowboats, whether that makes a difference I am not sure.

[Nickhlx]

I am not sure that I would agree with you there, The only thing unhappy about going on rivers in our boat is me, as I cannot swim, and would not be able to walk to the bank if I fell in.

 

I have taken our boat on Rivers and apart from an increase in speed at the same engine speeds, have not noticed any significant difference. Admittedly our boat, at 33", is much deeper draugted than many modern recreational narrowboats, whether that makes a difference I am not sure.

 

 

My immediate fear would be a wave or swell instantly filling the front area of the boat - even if the cabin (glazed) doors did not give, with a well full of water it would be constantly leaking in, assuming the weight did not lower the front to below water line - nightmare !

 

I had considered doing the end of the K and A up the Severn and back in near Sharpness, ( surf the bore ? ) but I think once the boat has been exposed to salt water spray, corrosion will be much faster and maintenance (depreciation) also accelerated ...

 

 

Nick

[ditchcrawler]

Nick Sanders went to the Black Sea with a pair of Narrowboats, one sank. He had a problem breasting up on choppy water as well. The boats were built specifically for the trip with the motor hold being decked with welded steel and not board so the front end was water tight.

[carlt]

Anyone seriously considering going out to sea in a narrowboat needs to be in secure accomodation, full stop.

 

It's a good job all those inland boat owners, congregating at Tough's Boatyard, in 1940, didn't take that attitude.

 

Anything over 30' with a flat bottom that can float!

Edited May 23, 2011 by carlt

[David Schweizer]

My immediate fear would be a wave or swell instantly filling the front area of the boat - even if the cabin (glazed) doors did not give, with a well full of water it would be constantly leaking in, assuming the weight did not lower the front to below water line - nightmare !

 

I had considered doing the end of the K and A up the Severn and back in near Sharpness, ( surf the bore ? ) but I think once the boat has been exposed to salt water spray, corrosion will be much faster and maintenance (depreciation) also accelerated

 

 

Nick

The Severn Estuary is hardly a "small River" it is several miles wide where the Avon joins it

[the grinch]

Nick Sanders went to the Black Sea with a pair of Narrowboats, one sank. He had a problem breasting up on choppy water as well. The boats were built specifically for the trip with the motor hold being decked with welded steel and not board so the front end was water tight.

 

you are quite right brian, i had already mentioned that trip (the first video "the longest narrowboat journey in the world) the return journey is "Black sea oddysey (the journey home)" the first video is best for the channel crossing footage.

 

as Tam says the reliance on normal lines is not enough if you look at unspoilt by progress 1&2 they were breasted with crossed straps both side to side and front to back with numerous intermediate straps, this was still not enough to stop the butty sinking in gapsicova lake when the weather turned nasty, you will also see waves coming over the fronts and running full length down the gunnels!! if it recall it was a force 2 rising 3 that day they crossed.

 

It's a good job all those inland boat owners, congregating at Tough's Boatyard, in 1940, didn't take that attitude.

 

well said Carl, the right precautions are needed, the right weather not only now but forecast for the next 48 hours, and a boat suitably equiped and designed to make the required passage.

[Nickhlx]

The Severn Estuary is hardly a "small River" it is several miles wide where the Avon joins it

 

 

Agreed - about 5.5 miles wide at that point, and still 2 miles wide at the Severn Bridge... ( Onionbargee's comment ? )

 

Nick

[Guest]

Anyone seriously considering going out to sea in a narrowboat needs to be in secure accomodation, full stop.

 

There is no part of a narrowboat that has anything to do with sea going craft, they are not even happy on small rivers. Thats like driving a tractor on a motorway, no chance.

 

Most Narrowboats are perfectly suited to river work. This is simply not correct I'm afraid.

 

As long as you have a sufficiently powerful engine and adequate cooling there is no reason at all why you can't tackle a river in a NB.

 

We have done it now number of times and never had a problem.

[Chertsey]

Anyone seriously considering going out to sea in a narrowboat needs to be in secure accomodation, full stop.

 

There is no part of a narrowboat that has anything to do with sea going craft, they are not even happy on small rivers. Thats like driving a tractor on a motorway, no chance.

I also disagree with the second part of this. You must speak for yourself but I know narrow boats both old and modern that are very happy on rivers, and indeed the large Grand Union boats were designed with the Thames in mind.

Edited May 23, 2011 by Chertsey

[canaldrifter]

you are quite right brian, i had already mentioned that trip (the first video "the longest narrowboat journey in the world) the return journey is "Black sea oddysey (the journey home)" the first video is best for the channel crossing footage.

 

as Tam says the reliance on normal lines is not enough if you look at unspoilt by progress 1&2 they were breasted with crossed straps both side to side and front to back with numerous intermediate straps, this was still not enough to stop the butty sinking in gapsicova lake when the weather turned nasty, you will also see waves coming over the fronts and running full length down the gunnels!! if it recall it was a force 2 rising 3 that day they crossed.

 

 

 

well said Carl, the right precautions are needed, the right weather not only now but forecast for the next 48 hours, and a boat suitably equiped and designed to make the required passage.

 

That is the whole point. He ignored local weather advice and misjudged the width of the waterway. Luckily the swamped boat actually sank alongside, so it could be lifted out by crane, but he lost a lot of video material.

 

I don't see why a narrowboat could not go coastal, if all precautions are taken, the cruise is carefully planned and not too ambitious, the boat is not alone, and weather and tides are taken into account.

 

A properly organised and escorted trip from the Thames down to Chichester would be interesting. There are many places where narrowboats could shelter, and other places to explore such as the River Sandwich and the creeks of the south coast. But the Chichester canal does not go to Chichester. There is only a short stretch that might be navigable up to Cutfield Road Bridge. I'm not even sure that Salterns tidal lock is operable now.

 

It might be better to navigate up to Dell Quay.

 

The only navigable part of the Chichester is from Canal Basin to Crosbie Bridge at Donnington and that is isolated.

 

Obviously the best way to go coastal is in a coastal boat, but there is a certain appeal in taking a narrowboat where others fear to go.

 

Tone

[DaveG]

There is a narrowboat permanently moored on the tidal Hamble near Eastleigh which looks like a liveaboard though I've no idea whether this was brought round by sea or taken by lorry.

 

The Chichester canal is only about 4 miles long, from the tidal natural harbour up to the town. There are two locks, one of which I know was permanently shut last year. The basin itself is fairly full with canal society boats. I guess you would need to get council permission to moor there as I think they own it.

[canaldrifter]

The basin itself is fairly full with canal society boats. I guess you would need to get council permission to moor there as I think they own it.

 

How would you get there. By road? That's how their boats arrived.

 

Tone

[Jim Riley]

snip

I am going round Trent falls soon and that is absolutely the tops for a narrowboat, even that is pushing it, and I am only doing that because there is no inland way to York from Nottingham with a complete boat.

snip

 

?? keadby lock onto stainforth and keadby, round to selby and on to the ouse again? misses out trent falls and it's broad all the way afaik.

I've done selby to york and back, would love to do trent falls one day, so I'm not saying don't do it, just that there's a less exiting way round.

[RLWP]

?? keadby lock onto stainforth and keadby, round to selby and on to the ouse again? misses out trent falls and it's broad all the way afaik.

I've done selby to york and back, would love to do trent falls one day, so I'm not saying don't do it, just that there's a less exiting way round.

 

Not in a seventy foot boat there isn't

 

Richard

[Keeping Up]

Most of what needs to be said has already been said, and well said. I agree 100% with those who say "don't"; when asked what accessories should be fitted to a narrowboat before taking it to sea, my first suggestion would be "a periscope".

 

Alan Fincher mentioned Ocean Princess; it should be noted that it wasn't "adapted" for sea-going journeys, it was designed and constructed that way from the outset with many hidden features such as extra strengthening in crucial places, and baffles in the water and fuel tanks, etc.

 

When we took our boat from Bristol to Portishead and the weather turned against us, I had considerably difficulty at times when the rudder and propeller lifted out of the water between the waves. There is a short video on the page on our website, but it doesn't illustrate this particular point at all because I had to wait for things to calm down a lot before I could divert enough attention (and hand-holds) to risk filming anything.

[PaddingtonBear]

We know the OP is a little mad but he must be extremely rich as well if he is going to moor for any length of time anywhere in Chi Harbour. A friend pays 3400 to moor a 29' Westerley in the marina. Makes the canals look a steal.

[mrsmelly]

?? keadby lock onto stainforth and keadby, round to selby and on to the ouse again? misses out trent falls and it's broad all the way afaik.

I've done selby to york and back, would love to do trent falls one day, so I'm not saying don't do it, just that there's a less exiting way round.

 

Hi Jim

 

Yes Ive done it that way before but no can do with 70 feet...

[the grinch]

 

But the Chichester canal does not go to Chichester.

since when? it has always gone there!

There is only a short stretch that might be navigable up to Cutfield Road Bridge.

wrong! casher's or manhood end lock is the limit as it has no gates and a concrete dam across its top cill

 

I'm not even sure that Salterns tidal lock is operable now.

as far as i know it is still operational with care.

It might be better to navigate up to Dell Quay.

this drys out at low tide as far as i can recall, but has a nice pub!!

The only navigable part of the Chichester is from Canal Basin to Crosbie Bridge at Donnington and that is isolated.

because of WSCC's inability to get the 2 bridges sorted, an unacceptable situation that has been like it for over 40 years, doubt it will ever change as Portsmouth & Arundel Canal Society is no more and the Ship Canal Trust has no decent leadership!

Obviously the best way to go coastal is in a coastal boat, but there is a certain appeal in taking a narrowboat where others fear to go.

 

Tone

think that is what the few have thought.

Edited May 23, 2011 by hamsterfan

[blackrose]

Would a 12ft wide NB style boat fare any better than a NB at sea? (assuming the bow well deck & windows were covered and air intakes around the engine room were raised, etc). I'm not thinking of doing it, but when I was moored at Limehouse a few years ago one of the former lockkeepers told me he would cross the channel on a good day without a second thought in my boat.

 

The problem as I see it is not necessarily the crossing itself because that could be done in a "quick dash" on the day of one's choice according to the weather and forecasts, but getting around the Kent coast is probably trickier because of the time it takes to get out of the Thames estuary from the Medway for example, by which time conditions could have changed. Even on a flat calm day the wash from ferries is also something that could sink inland boats as someone already mentioned. I was in Calais harbour once on a sailing boat moored up against the harbour wall waiting for a lockkeeper to let us into the canal and the wash from the ferries was horrible.

Edited May 23, 2011 by blackrose

[canaldrifter]

One advantage of a flat bottomed boat is that it doesn't matter when the tide goes out.

 

I'd forgotten about that second lock above the sea lock. It's a while since I've walked the Chichester, and the canal doesn't reach Chichester from the harbour for boats any more than the Chesterfield canal reaches Chesterfield from the Trent. The difference is, one day the Chesterfield will.

 

Tone

[TimD]

Thanks for welcome. I've got a sailing weekender which we often de-rig & canal cruise. We are considering buying a NB - one big consideration is whether we could get it to, for example, Chichester harbour for, say, the summer.

 

 

I don't see why you would want to take a NB to Chichester for the summer,... but one solution could be to get a GRP narrowboat. I was recently chatting to someone on the Bridgwater and Taunton canal which is isolated from all other waterways. He was telling me that the boat was light enough to tow on a trailer and use a slipway so though he was based on the B&T other rivers and canals were easily accessible to him. It clearly suited his needs, but I don't think I'd ever splash out on one.

[carlt]

One advantage of a flat bottomed boat is that it doesn't matter when the tide goes out.

Not really an advantage, when you think of all the sea worthy boats that can take the ground.