Narrowboats at sea

[max campbell]

Anyone got experience of taking a NB to sea, apart from short dashes across the Bristol channel, etc. Am thinking of Thames to Chichester, for example? Any advice?

[Gibbo]

Anyone got experience of taking a NB to sea, apart from short dashes across the Bristol channel, etc. Am thinking of Thames to Chichester, for example? Any advice?

 

I did Bristol to Liverpool. My advice is don't.

[Guest]

Anyone got experience of taking a NB to sea, apart from short dashes across the Bristol channel, etc. Am thinking of Thames to Chichester, for example? Any advice?

 

Hi Max - welcome to the forum.

 

Taking a NB to sea requires considerable preparation - is this a really serious proposition?

[max campbell]

I did Bristol to Liverpool. My advice is don't.

 

Why?

[Gibbo]

Why?

 

Well there are, apparently, some narrowboats that are geared for going in the sea. Mine isn't and I suspect most others aren't either. In flat calm or small waves it's fine. The Irish sea is a bit nasty when it wants to be.

 

I'm sure many others will have done it also but think it's no big problem. I'm not so sure. Simple things like waves hitting the sides could quite easily take all the windows out and fill it with water.

[max campbell]

Hi Max - welcome to the forum.

 

Taking a NB to sea requires considerable preparation - is this a really serious proposition?

 

Thanks for welcome. I've got a sailing weekender which we often de-rig & canal cruise. We are considering buying a NB - one big consideration is whether we could get it to, for example, Chichester harbour for, say, the summer.

 

I've read Narrow dog to Carcasonne, etc, and understand I'd need to cover the cratch, protect windows, maybe fit washboards - carry VHF, anchor, liferaft, etc etc, and I do a fair bit of sea sailing.

[mrsmelly]

Anyone got experience of taking a NB to sea, apart from short dashes across the Bristol channel, etc. Am thinking of Thames to Chichester, for example? Any advice?

 

Hi

If you want to go to sea I suggest a Boat shaped boat, narrowboats were specifically designed many years ago to carry goods being dragged along a shallow ditch by a horse. I have been to sea many many times on proper boats and would never take a bath tub out there. I am going round Trent falls soon and that is absolutely the tops for a narrowboat, even that is pushing it, and I am only doing that because there is no inland way to York from Nottingham with a complete boat.

Yes we all know people have done the wash, the bristol channel and in some cases some idiots have gone across to France putting their lives at risk as well as our fantastic coastguard/Rnli guys. As for Thames to Chichester where the hell is Chichester

[RLWP]

<snip>

 

I've read Narrow dog to Carcasonne,

 

<snip>

 

That book has a lot to answer for

 

Richard

[Guest]

Thanks for welcome. I've got a sailing weekender which we often de-rig & canal cruise. We are considering buying a NB - one big consideration is whether we could get it to, for example, Chichester harbour for, say, the summer.

 

I've read Narrow dog to Carcasonne, etc, and understand I'd need to cover the cratch, protect windows, maybe fit washboards - carry VHF, anchor, liferaft, etc etc, and I do a fair bit of sea sailing.

 

Sounds to me as if you are 'good to go'.

[NB Alnwick]

Thanks for welcome. I've got a sailing weekender which we often de-rig & canal cruise. We are considering buying a NB - one big consideration is whether we could get it to, for example, Chichester harbour for, say, the summer.

 

I've read Narrow dog to Carcasonne, etc, and understand I'd need to cover the cratch, protect windows, maybe fit washboards - carry VHF, anchor, liferaft, etc etc, and I do a fair bit of sea sailing.

 

It was always my ambition to have a boat that is capable of coastal cruising whilst having the necessary dimensions to navigate the canals. Our narrow boat has been out in the Severn Estuary as far as Portishead and along the tidal stretches of the Thames and Trent but I think that anything more ambitious would require something built specially for that purpose.

[max campbell]

Hi

If you want to go to sea I suggest a Boat shaped boat

 

Well, that's what I thought, but when you think about it some more the flat bottom provides the best form stability, and they're well ballasted (you'd have to make sure the ballast was well fixed). They're also strong (steel monocoque "tube"). If you can deal with water ingress via windows, cratch, etc, then the narrowness is the only downside (and handling because of hull windage, I guess) - or am I missing something else?

 

Oh, and Chichester (between Bognor & Portsmouth, south coast) has a canal - only a few miles long and not connected to any other, but hey.

 

but I think that anything more ambitious would require something built specially for that purpose.

 

Why? That's a genuine question - what changes would you make?

Edited May 22, 2011 by max campbell

[carlt]

Well, that's what I thought, but when you think about it some more the flat bottom provides the best form stability,

If thinking about it leads to that conclusion then you really need to either think harder or stop thinking about it altogether.

 

The reason sea going boats are "boat shaped" is for stability, in waves.

[mrsmelly]

Well, that's what I thought, but when you think about it some more the flat bottom provides the best form stability, and they're well ballasted (you'd have to make sure the ballast was well fixed). They're also strong (steel monocoque "tube"). If you can deal with water ingress via windows, cratch, etc, then the narrowness is the only downside (and handling because of hull windage, I guess) - or am I missing something else?

 

Oh, and Chichester (between Bognor & Portsmouth, south coast) has a canal - only a few miles long and not connected to any other, but hey.

 

Hi

Yes the narrowboat is strong enough for very small seas but has too many apertures in standard form, such as air intakes for engine etc also they are greatly underpowered to combat serious waters and wind. My boat at 70 feet and well inexcess of 20 tons only has 43 hp and thats not shp I doubt if in reality its more than 35 horses. Being full displacement makes them steady enough but they do not rise and fall with larger waves as well as a boat shaped boat and broadside on if the you no what hit the fan,,,,,,

[David Schweizer]

Chris Coburn has taken his narrowboat Progress to sea several times. However, I believe it has been specially adapted to do it in comparative safety.

 

 

The only other person I know who has done it was Dennis Jewiss in The narrowbopat William in the 1960's when he went out into the Wash and blew a big end battling against the outgoing tide when he attempted to get back in.

[the grinch]

another video to watch is "the longest narrowboat journey in the world" this will give you an insight as to what would face you

[NB Alnwick]

Why? That's a genuine question - what changes would you make?

 

The traditional steering position of a narrow boat from a low stern deck that is barely a yard long isn't much fun in rolling waves. I think that with the addition of watertight stern doors to protect the steerer, a foldaway or collapsible mast for nav. lights and antennas and a full range of safety and navigation equipment Alnwick, with its high front deck and reasonably powerful engine, would perform quite adequately at sea. Whether or not we could find affordable insurance is a completely different issue.

[Timleech]

Hi

Yes the narrowboat is strong enough for very small seas but has too many apertures in standard form, such as air intakes for engine etc also they are greatly underpowered to combat serious waters and wind. My boat at 70 feet and well inexcess of 20 tons only has 43 hp and thats not shp I doubt if in reality its more than 35 horses. Being full displacement makes them steady enough but they do not rise and fall with larger waves as well as a boat shaped boat and broadside on if the you no what hit the fan,,,,,,

 

The steering position is another issue, I wouldn't fancy either trad or cruiser stern in any sort of 'weather', though the traditional layout does give some shelter. I think Chris Coburn's boat has wheel steering from inside as an option, though I might have imagined that.

 

Tim

[the grinch]

The only other person I know who has done it was Dennis Jewiss in The narrowbopat William in the 1960's when he went out into the Wash and blew a big end battling against the outgoing tide when he attempted to get back in.

 

there was someone else that ended up on the beach, wrecked 1980's if i remember right,

several boats have crossed the channel not just chris / lawrence that have ventured to sea

tim spall aslo coasted his dutch barge round southern england (bbciplayer "all at sea")

 

 

you may not like this one!!!

Edited May 22, 2011 by hamsterfan

[howardang]

You seem to be convinced that the project is feasible so I don't quite see why you are asking on this site. However, aside from the total unsuitability of the average narrow boat in open waters, have you thought that the cost of carrying out suitable modifications to make it even slightly more suitable might be more than the costs involved in taking it to Chichester by truck each summer.

 

Additionally, is there sufficient cruising available to make it worth while?

 

Howard

[Roger Gunkel]

A canal boat is designed to carry loads in comparatively calm waters and the hull shape for maximising load carrying.

 

A seagoing hull is designed to give directional stability in a seaway, increasing stability and bouyancy in the rolling moment with wave motion, and flare and bouyancy to the bow to deflect waves and lift the bow in a seaway. A narrowboat does not possess those characteristics and therefore will be much less inherently stable and safe in any sort of heavy wave motion. In addition the slamming of the baseplate in a heavy seaway will put considerable stress on areas of the structure that were not designed for it.

 

If you have experience of sailing at sea, you will be very aware of the motion of a boat with a seaway on one of the rear quarters, where the bow is trying to dig in and the stern is rising trying to broach the boat. This is exactly the sort of situation that could push the bow of a narrowboat under or through a wave, making it uncontrollable and extremely dangerous. A sea hull would gain increasing bouyancy as the bow digs in, lifting the bow and maintaining directional control. Another situation is where high angles of roll develop, where a sea hull's upper hull width and shape will maintain bouyancy and help with the self righting motion. A narrowboat hull will not gain extra bouyancy from the upper hull, relying on the self righting of the balast to a mugh greater degree and to much smaller limits.

 

A final point is that a boat designed for sea will be designed with compartments which are capable of taking on a certain amount of water while staying afloat. There are no similar areas in a narrowboat and water coming onboard particularly over the vulnerable bow and stern areas are almost certain to result in the total and rapid loss of the vessel.

 

It is of course perfectly possible to take anything that floats to sea in the right conditions and with the right precautions, but with any sudden or unexpected change of conditions or situation, you are in a life threatening situation. The sea is already a dangerous enough environment without making it more so.

 

All purely my opinion and open to disagreement:)

 

Roger

[the grinch]

and a most sensible reply from roger

no amount of do it or don't do it can replace the considerable knowledge of us on CWDF combined

if you take the right precautions then it could be trip of a lifetime, if you don't - disaster!

[Ark Right]

Chris Coburn has taken his narrowboat Progress to sea several times. However, I believe it has been specially adapted to do it in comparative safety.

 

 

The only other person I know who has done it was Dennis Jewiss in The narrowbopat William in the 1960's when he went out into the Wash and blew a big end battling against the outgoing tide when he attempted to get back in.

 

Sorties onto the Wash are commonplace apparently http://www.narrowboatworld.com/index.php/leatest/2577-fancy-a-cruise-across-the-wash

[blackrose]

there was someone else that ended up on the beach, wrecked 1980's if i remember right,

several boats have crossed the channel not just chris / lawrence that have ventured to sea

tim spall aslo coasted his dutch barge round southern england (bbciplayer "all at sea")

 

 

you may not like this one!!!

 

Most Dutch barges that go to sea are at least RCD Cat C and some are B. Most narrowboats are only Cat D.

 

http://www.boatcompliance.com/rcdirective.php

Edited May 22, 2011 by blackrose

[alan_fincher]

There have been other brave souls beyond those mentioned so far....

 

Here is another

 

Ocean Princess Linky

 

EDITED to add

 

Another Ocean Princess Link

Edited May 22, 2011 by alan_fincher

[canaldrifter]

There have been other brave souls beyond those mentioned so far....

 

Here is another

 

Ocean Princess Linky

 

EDITED to add

 

Another Ocean Princess Link

 

Ocean Princess was definitely adapted for sea going, with inside front cabin steering and freeboard to the top of the windows. Even then I believe the coastguard restricted her to no more than a three foot swell.

 

If Neil Arlidge is around here he could tell you more.

 

 

Tone