Electricity charges in a marina

[Alan de Enfield]

And, @Chris John has been very quite since being proven wrong - he has visited since being corrected (in fact just an hour ago) but no suggestion of "yes - you were all correct".

[Nightwatch]

52 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Not for a bloody long time 🤪

True. You git!

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

And, @Chris John has been very quite since being proven wrong - he has visited since being corrected (in fact just an hour ago) but no suggestion of "yes - you were all correct".

Some people find it very hard to say " sorry guys, I was wrong". Not me, of course, I have had plenty of practice.

[IanD]

13 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Some people find it very hard to say " sorry guys, I was wrong". Not me, of course, I have had plenty of practice.

 

Me too... 😉

[Mike Todd]

19 hours ago, magnetman said:

Exactly. I do know that it is incorrect but was quite interested to see the google result

 

It could partly explain why people might be confused about it. 

Google generally returns the best match to the question for which it has an answer - similar to corrective/predictive typing. Most helpful for those of us whose typing is always erratic\!

[Jess--]

A friend that runs a small holiday lodge site just had his 2 year fixed deal run out and as a result has jumped from the low 20's per unit up to 96p per unit.

his current DAILY bill is between 300 & 400 pounds.

 

he has found a new supplier that he can move to at a lower rate but his current supplier won't allow the changeover while they see an amount of over £10 owing on his account, with his smart meter reporting usage every few minutes this will never happen.

 

His plan is to cancel midweek bookings for next week and shut the power off for 48 hours so that he can get to the point where he can pay the bill and get it to a zero balance to move away, he reckons the cost of doing this is going to be around £2000 but 6-800 of that will be offset by not having the power on and the remainder will be saved in lower electric costs by the end of Jan. 

[David Mack]

Wouldn't it be cheaper for him to overpay so the account is in credit, then reclaim the surplus after the supplier change has completed?

[Jess--]

It probably would be cheaper for him, but knowing him I suspect he has other maintenance work planned that needs the site to be empty that he will get done at the same time.

I know that there is currently 20kw of solar being put on the site (fitters have been there all of this week), so the disconnection may be being timed to coincide with that being connected.

[Tacet]

On 08/12/2022 at 21:32, Alan de Enfield said:

 

One ampere is equal to 6.241509074×10 electrons worth of charge moving past a point in a second

An ampere is a lot more electrons than that!

[Alan de Enfield]

21 minutes ago, Tacet said:

An ampere is a lot more electrons than that!

 

Yes - you are correct - I missed a few ! (Although as of 2019 the definition has been revised)

 

The ampere (/ˈæmpɛər/, US: /ˈæmpɪər/;  symbol: A, often shortened to amp, is the unit of electric current in the International System of Units (SI). One ampere is equal to 6.241509074×10¹⁸ electrons worth of charge moving past a point in a second. It is named after French mathematician and physicist André-Marie Ampère (1775–1836), considered the father of electromagnetism along with Danish physicist Hans Christian Ørsted.

As of the 2019 redefinition of the SI base units, the ampere is defined by fixing the elementary charge e to be exactly 1.602176634×10¹⁹ C (coulomb), which means an ampere is an electrical current equivalent to 10¹⁹ elementary charges moving every 1.602176634 seconds or 6.241509074×10¹⁸ elementary charges moving in a second. Prior to the redefinition the ampere was defined as the current that would need to be passed through 2 parallel wires 1 metre apart to produce a magnetic force of 2×10⁻⁷ newtons per metre.

[davidg]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

As of the 2019 redefinition of the SI base units, the ampere is defined by fixing the elementary charge e to be exactly 1.602176634×10¹⁹ C (coulomb),

Taking a punt of being accused of pedantry again, but if the charge on the electron is that I wouldn't want to be around one of those when it got out in the wild😊

[nbfiresprite]

Just had my quarterly bill from Foxes with a note attached. The unit price is fixed at 16p per unit plus vat at 20% until end of May 2023, The only other change is the move to monthly billing as their energy supplier has switched them to monthly billing.

[Tacet]

1 hour ago, davidg said:

Taking a punt of being accused of pedantry again, but if the charge on the electron is that I wouldn't want to be around one of those when it got out in the wild😊

Yes.  Just one of those electrons would be enough to last a lifetime!

 

An ampere used to be a coulomb per second but inflation has ruined all that.

[cuthound]

23 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Yes - you are correct - I missed a few ! (Although as of 2019 the definition has been revised)

 

The ampere (/ˈæmpɛər/, US: /ˈæmpɪər/;  symbol: A, often shortened to amp, is the unit of electric current in the International System of Units (SI). One ampere is equal to 6.241509074×10¹⁸ electrons worth of charge moving past a point in a second. It is named after French mathematician and physicist André-Marie Ampère (1775–1836), considered the father of electromagnetism along with Danish physicist Hans Christian Ørsted.

As of the 2019 redefinition of the SI base units, the ampere is defined by fixing the elementary charge e to be exactly 1.602176634×10¹⁹ C (coulomb), which means an ampere is an electrical current equivalent to 10¹⁹ elementary charges moving every 1.602176634 seconds or 6.241509074×10¹⁸ elementary charges moving in a second. Prior to the redefinition the ampere was defined as the current that would need to be passed through 2 parallel wires 1 metre apart to produce a magnetic force of 2×10⁻⁷ newtons per metre.

 

Does this mean I need to recalibrate my ammeter? 😂🤣

[frangar]

Our marina has now gone down to 33p/KWh from 45p/kWh….will see how long that stays! They actually didn’t tell us…it just happened. 

[TheBiscuits]

17 minutes ago, frangar said:

Our marina has now gone down to 33p/KWh from 45p/kWh….will see how long that stays!

 

Which is the current discounted commercial rate, so until the end of March 2023 unless that scheme gets extended.  It may but possibly not at the same discount rate.

[frangar]

4 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Which is the current discounted commercial rate, so until the end of March 2023 unless that scheme gets extended.  It may but possibly not at the same discount rate.

Indeed. But it seems not all marinas have done the same. Our works unit is still 21p/kWh till august next year…..

[Momac]

On 11/12/2022 at 14:08, nbfiresprite said:

Just had my quarterly bill from Foxes with a note attached. The unit price is fixed at 16p per unit plus vat at 20% until end of May 2023, The only other change is the move to monthly billing as their energy supplier has switched them to monthly billing.

VAT on electricity should be 5%

12 minutes ago, frangar said:

Indeed. But it seems not all marinas have done the same. Our works unit is still 21p/kWh till august next year…..

That's good at todays prices. 

Similarly at our marina we are fixed until December 2024 but at not such a favourable rate .

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, MartynG said:

VAT on electricity should be 5%

 

The marina will be charged 20% (commercial rate) but should charge any domestic users at 5%.

 

We have to do the same for the caravan park.

[nbfiresprite]

2 hours ago, MartynG said:

VAT on electricity should be 5%

That's good at todays prices. 

Similarly at our marina we are fixed until December 2024 but at not such a favourable rate .

That was the case at Foxes, until the taxman ordered them to increase it back to 20 percent as the moorings are not classed as Residential. Tracy show me the letter from HMRC when I asked about it. 

[Momac]

2 hours ago, nbfiresprite said:

That was the case at Foxes, until the taxman ordered them to increase it back to 20 percent as the moorings are not classed as Residential. Tracy show me the letter from HMRC when I asked about it. 

Our marina mooring is not residential but VAT on electricity is charged at 5%.

 

[MtB]

Just now, MartynG said:

Our marina mooring is not residential but VAT on electricity is charged at 5%.

 

 

That doesn't necessarily make it correct. Next time a human bean at HMRC VAT casts an eye over one of their VAT returns, a retrospective bill for the missing 15% may result. 

 

 

[nbfiresprite]

25 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

That doesn't necessarily make it correct. Next time a human bean at HMRC VAT casts an eye over one of their VAT returns, a retrospective bill for the missing 15% may result. 

 

 

That was the case with Foxes after a visit from the VATman

[Momac]

45 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

That doesn't necessarily make it correct. Next time a human bean at HMRC VAT casts an eye over one of their VAT returns, a retrospective bill for the missing 15% may result. 

 

 

Or may not.

 

Its domestic use . 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-on-fuel-and-power-notice-70119#vat-liability-of-fuel-and-power

 

 

[nbfiresprite]

1 minute ago, MartynG said:

Or may not.

 

Its domestic use . 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-on-fuel-and-power-notice-70119#vat-liability-of-fuel-and-power

 

 

Not when the mooring is classed as non residential as the letter to Foxes from the HMRC stated.