Buying first narrowboat advice?

[Sucatraps]

If you had a £60k budget… would you spend the max you can on a boat or would you think it would be better to spend less and have more to pay for repairs / fitting out etc..? 
 

only asking because I saw a £20k project boat I could change the interior to my liking from day 1 but needed some work including fitting out and over plating hull versus a £45k boat I would still need to fit out, but probably better hull condition. 

 

Edited September 15 by Sucatraps
Autocorrect Spellings!

[Stroudwater1]

Neither I’m afraid. I would keep looking for a boat that is  a fit for us at just over £50k and keep just under 10k in an ISA for contingency 

 

A 20k boat will most likely chew up time and money. You can earn the money but anno domini won’t return the time. The only benefit is personal satisfaction etc and all that goes with that. 

[Rob-M]

I agree with Stroud water, but a boat that enables you to go boating and doesn't require you to spend months refitting.

[dmr]

Its up to you to decide, do you want to go boating or will you get pleasure and satisfaction from a big and lengthy project?   Overplating is rarely cost effective unless its a treasured boat with a good interior, in fact paying others to work on your project is rarely cost effective.

 

A friend got himself a sinker and stripped it out to bare steel, taught himself to weld, did all the steelwork, including replacing much of the cabin, fitted out with recycled wood, rebuilt the engine, and is now hapily living on the boat. He got some help with the engine rebuild and got a professional welder in to do the welds below the water line (he had all the steel fittred and prepped ready to go).  It can be done.

[SLC]

Horses for courses. I know what I would do but either option is viable. Bangers and Cash has taught me one thing. You never get back what you put into a restoration job especially if you have to employ professionals, but people do because the pleasure in doing it is worth the cost.

I would buy at nearer £50k and put a contingency aside because within 12m something will need doing! Some of the cost could be cosmetic, some mechanical. Within 6 months our boat jumped around with an engine misfire. Cost £500 plus grief. Then there was...

[MtB]

I agree with all the above. Decide if you want to actually go boating or if you want to spend a year of two of evenings and weekends re-modelling a boat. Bear in mind all boat projects always over-run massively on both time and cost. 

 

Also bear in mind they cost money to run and maintain. £5k a year running costs seem typical, and it can be horribly lumpy. An engine swap can easily soak up the whole of the £10k contingency posters above have suggested. 

 

 

 

[MrsM]

1 hour ago, Stroudwater1 said:

Neither I’m afraid. I would keep looking for a boat that is  a fit for us at just over £50k and keep just under 10k in an ISA for contingency 

 

A 20k boat will most likely chew up time and money. You can earn the money but anno domini won’t return the time. The only benefit is personal satisfaction etc and all that goes with that. 

I would go this route (and in fact this is what we did when we bought our boat). 

[Bee]

Most, if not all, boats have a ceiling value, much the same as, say, an ex council house.  You can put stone lions on the gate posts and a fountain in the front garden but nobody will pay more for the house. I've only ever come across a handful of boats that are really worth the time and huge effort to be worth doing up. I have had 4 boats from shells and that has been worthwhile but you do need a collection of tools and skills and grim determination bordering on the obsessive to get the job done. There are some perfectly OK middle of the road boats that will give good service for not a huge amount of money and I think that is probably a sensible thing to look for - you will need a good bit of cash anyway to pay for licence, mooring, surveys, new batteries, paint and the rest of a long list of stuff. Good luck.

[LadyG]

If you intend to do a bit of boating in good weather you could buy a nice cheap boat (that does not need overplating) and do it up as it suits your timetable. 

If keeping it long term, it will likely be best grit blasted and recoated, which could take about month if you are organised. Trying to to strip out, replace insulation, new shower (? ), some plumbing, new galley (up to £3K),  new cushions and upholstery £650+ new batteries £650+. some electrics (?), a stove, central heating, means you could spend three months getting it really nice.

So a project boat could end up costing as much, as something half decent which can be improved at your leisure.

I keep about £5K ready to spend on gross failures.

 I now average maybe £1K per annum on maintenance and upgrades. Costs can be unplanned, and lumpy.

First year took a lot of time, and money.I seem to remember about £4K just frittered away, though there were some marina fees involved.

Edited September 15 by LadyG

[Laurie Booth]

9 hours ago, Sucatraps said:

If you had a £60k budget… would you spend the max you can on a boat or would you think it would be better to spend less and have more to pay for repairs / fitting out etc..? 
 

only asking because I saw a £20k project boat I could change the interior to my liking from day 1 but needed some work including fitting out and over plating hull versus a £45k boat I would still need to fit out, but probably better hull condition. 

 

Buy a house in Burnley

 

[matty40s]

Buy 60 houses in Stoke...

[Alan de Enfield]

Buy Liverpool  (well 60,000 houses) -  The flagship project launched in 2015, offered people the chance to buy dilapidated, derelict and tinned-up homes (a large percentage of Liverpool) for just £1 and try and turn them into proper homes.

 

Life in Liverpool's £1 houses that went from derelict terraces to family homes - Liverpool Echo

Edited September 15 by Alan de Enfield

[Crewcut]

"Project" boats rarely make sense, your budget is enough to buy a decent boat allowing for some contingency so look for one with as many of the characteristics you think you want as possible. When you get the boat live with it as it comes for a while before making any changes. Making a list can help - essentials, nice to haves, etc. Go and see plenty of boats to start building a picture of what you can get for your budget...

[Sucatraps]

Haha! Thanks for all the replies! I had wondered if there was any hope of getting a £20k boat, taking the time and effort (and money) and ending up with something worth at least more than I originally paid for it, but tbh I’m real new to Narrowboats (at least it’s been a long time) and I’ve never lived aboard, which is my plan…

 

Just to make sure I’m positively over-sharing, I’m going through a divorce, will come out with something in the region of £80k which I can’t buy a house where I current live for that, but could buy a boat (plus I don’t want to be locked into a mortgage until the day I die) and I had already planned building in a contingency fund for life disasters -and maybe a canine companion- hence thinking £60k budget…

 

I will likely have a lot of time on my hands and I figured putting time into a boat project might be a good way to keep myself busy during the mourning/healing process (post completion) to avoid the chance of getting mopey and keeping the old mental health game in tip top form… 🤞🤞🤞 I am fairly handy and I have tools etc. so I’m not too worried about the fitting out - Plus I picked up a Graham Booth book (I think on Tony’s advice) so it’ll be easy right? 😂 

 

I’m hoping for something in the 60+ feet variety, so I can build in a bedroom with desk etc. for the kiddos and to be honest coming from a tiny maisonette, I might actually end up with more space! (Has anyone ever said that on a narrowboat??) The £20k boat I saw was 71ft but was the one needing underplating, so I figured that would be anywhere up to £10-20k and I wondered if that would restore any of the boats value, but I think from what I’m reading, I’m just being a) a bit tight, b) a bit naive, and c) I might have enough work to be getting on with day to day on the boat, without needing to rebuild the whole thing! 😂

 

Stoke and Liverpool would be nice, but I sadly need to stay somewhere close to the expensive end of the grand union for work and kiddos… Seriously though, thanks all for the advice!

Edited September 15 by Sucatraps
SPG corrections

[LadyG]

 

The internal design can vary a lot, so you might have to see a few to decide what is best. I have thought about a desk. But the diner which doubles as a bed is more adaptable, and you can fill the base with books, tools, and general stuff. I've got a nice oak tabletop which matche's the kitchen worktops, and it looks very smart, not outrageously expensive.

Edited September 15 by LadyG

[MrsM]

Sorry to hear what you are going through. As has been said, you have enough budget for a pretty decent boat especially if you are in the market for a longer one, as many people are after 57-8 footers. There will be more than enough life-management tasks (eg water, waste, heating, cooking), maintenance, fettling, painting etc to keep you busy. In terms of your mental health I don't think there is much that could be better than actually getting out boating - something you wouldn't be able to do for ages if you were going to take on a £20k project boat. And you'll be able to have your children on board sooner. Best of luck. 

[Crewcut]

Plenty (110 boats) available 60-70ft & £40-£60k see here. If you didn't know already both brokers and private sales are on Apollo Duck. As said you can get more bang for your buck at this size and you also can if you buy from oop north as opposed to darn sarf. Good luck, ask opinions on here when you have a shortlist, take someone knowledgeable with you when you view if poss, you'll have read about surveys, some brokers being better than others, etc...

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Sucatraps said:

I sadly need to stay somewhere close to the expensive end of the grand union for work and kiddos…

 

With that in mind, are you thinking of continuously cruising (cannot stay in one area and have to move each 14 days) or getting a residential mooring ?

The mooring costs are not cheap and are charged per foot, so a 70 foot boat will cost about 50% more than 45ft boat.

 

For an officially 'residential mooring' you could be looking at £1000's (typically £10-£15,000 per annum in London, maybe £3-£5000 per annum in the Midlands.

You boat licence will be ~£1000 per year

 

Sme folk are happy to risk living on a lesiure (non residential) mooring which will be cheaper but there is a greater risk of eviction. Boat moorings are not like house rentals - you have no security of tenure and if you upset the marina, or neighbouring boaters you can be asked to leave within 15 minutes. If living on a leisure mooring you really need to 'keep your head down' and obey all the marina rules and keep the neighbours happy.

[LadyG]

48 minutes ago, Crewcut said:

Plenty (110 boats) available 60-70ft & £40-£60k see here. If you didn't know already both brokers and private sales are on Apollo Duck. As said you can get more bang for your buck at this size and you also can if you buy from oop north as opposed to darn sarf. Good luck, ask opinions on here when you have a shortlist, take someone knowledgeable with you when you view if poss, you'll have read about surveys, some brokers being better than others, etc...

Up North as in Leeds and Liverpool Canal the liveaboard boats are generally 57ft . It's a great area for boating but quite a few locks are 57, though of course people do use slightly longer boats, but not 70ft in a 57ft lock.

For  the novice boater singlehanded, I'd stick to 57ft 

Who knows what is in front of us now, so might be best to be more flexible., one can't really move freely from N to S in a wide beam, or a 60ft NB

Edited September 15 by LadyG

[David Mack]

3 hours ago, Sucatraps said:

I will likely have a lot of time on my hands and I figured putting time into a boat project might be a good way to keep myself busy during the mourning/healing process (post completion) to avoid the chance of getting mopey and keeping the old mental health game in tip top form… 🤞🤞🤞 I am fairly handy and I have tools etc. so I’m not too worried about the fitting out - Plus I picked up a Graham Booth book (I think on Tony’s advice) so it’ll be easy right? 😂 

 

I’m hoping for something in the 60+ feet variety...

Trying to live in a 60ft boat while also refitting is going to be a bit of a problem - things like keeping sawdust out of your sleeping accommodation or food store will become an issue. As will storage of personal possessions, tools and fitout materials while maintaining space to work. And not forgetting that as a CCer you won't have access to mains power, offboat storage or road access for delivery of materials etc. 

[Quattrodave]

Ive done a few 'project' boats, they are massively rewarding but, unless you know exacly what you are getting into; don't!!  You will have to get very good very quickly at many different trades, buy beg or borrow many different specialist tools & design & work to code.  Think of a budget and double it, than add a bit more. Think of a time schedule, double it and add a bit more...

[LadyG]

Yep, all newbies think about a project, but its probably best avoided. You will be puting a lot of time and money in to what seems at times like a never ending project, its far harder than painting the living room on a weekend, lol.

Living on board turns it in to an exhausting process. 

I also think you need to spend time  on board to determine how to proceed, I started off full of enthusiasm and used that to paint the boat  ...... twice, as the first colour was too bland.

 

 

Edited September 15 by LadyG

[agg221]

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

With that in mind, are you thinking of continuously cruising (cannot stay in one area and have to move each 14 days) or getting a residential mooring ?

The mooring costs are not cheap and are charged per foot, so a 70 foot boat will cost about 50% more than 45ft boat.

 

For an officially 'residential mooring' you could be looking at £1000's (typically £10-£15,000 per annum in London, maybe £3-£5000 per annum in the Midlands.

You boat licence will be ~£1000 per year

 

Once you get outside London proper, the prices are much more reasonable. Places like Engineer's Wharf, Brentford etc.

 

Alec

[truckcab79]

Only you can really decide but if you  have the time,  skills and tools, which it sounds like you have, then a project makes perfect sense. To me spending £60k on a boat that isn’t right for me is a waste of money.  I’d feel as if I’d paid for it and therefore it makes no sense to rip it all out.

 

I’d rather buy something sound but with an interior I hate or is in poor condition, gut it and start again. Spending the money making it perfect for me.  It’s what we’ve always done with houses over the years.  Buy the classic, untouched, old lady house, functional, liveable but nothing worth keeping.  Then change it as time and money allow.  
 

Much more satisfying but not for everyone.  

[MrsM]

70ft Liverpool Boat Narrowboat Cruiser Stern - 70 foot | eBay 

Just noticed this on Ebay. Liverpool boats are at the budget end and are generally not well regarded, but this seems a lot of boat for £45k. It is in Nottingham.

Edited September 17 by MrsM