Tanker Narrowboats.

[Derek R.]

I always considered the by-products of gas works was creosote, and the 'gas boats' transported it to places such as those storing wooden railway sleepers for impregnation as a preservative. Though I'm probably wrong.

[PeterF]

7 hours ago, MtB said:

 

What is gas water? 

 

Or if there is a missing comma, would water really have been moved around by boat? 

 

Thanks.

 

Answering my own question maybe it was "water gas".

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_gas

 

I believe it was often called "gas liquor" or just "liquor" but "gas water" is descriptive. The generation of towns gas gave as byproducts a mixed organic liquid, "coal tar" and a mixed aqueous liquid "gas liquor" which contained a lot of ammonia along with other soluble compounds. This was used to generate ammonium compounds such as ammonium sulphate for use as a fertiliser. It could easily have contained cyanides as these are another nitrogen based compound like ammonia.

[BEngo]

Gas water was also derived from the coke.  After it left the ovens the coke was red hot and, in air, would start to burn.  So the coke was quenched with water.  Some  water turned to steam, which, with some coke, might be fed back into the gas producers, but as the coke cooled, there was a lot of water contaminated with products that could be extracted and sold.

 

A Gasworks wasted nothing.

 

N

 

[DandV]

And what bought this thread about

In 2015 on the Lower Peak Canal we came across Spey sprawled across the canal, whilst her crew attempted a delicate salvage operation.

A "very nasty branch" had snatched the steerer's very expensive spectacles off his nose and into the canal.

In spite of valiant efforts by her crew, there they probably remain.  

[fanshaft]

On 06/04/2024 at 21:22, BEngo said:

 

The Ellesmere Port to Aldridge run was operated for Duckhams, but was shipping lubricating  oil for blending rather than diesel. The cargo was in cylindrical tanks installed in ex GU and FMC boats.  I think Midland Canal Transport were the carrier.  At least one boat capsized during loading or unloading.  There are pictures in,  IIRC, the excellent  Phillip Weaver photo book published by the  h/ HNB(O)C.

 

N

 

It was Birmingham & Midland boats 'Yeoford' and 'Pictor' that were used.  Initially a round tank was installed but this made the boat capsize so a different type of tank, 'rectangular with a moderately pitched top' (per IWA Bulletin)  in shape was provided which was fine.  The first loads were carried in Feb 1970 but the weight of the tanks and depth problems on the Wyrley & Essington  reduced the payload to 34 tonnes.  Several more trips took place but a change of ownership of Duckhams and policy brought about an early demise. 

Edited April 10 by fanshaft

[Heartland]

Water onto coke produced "Water Gas" which was rich in hydrogen and provided a gas in a quick time to supplement gas demand at peak times.

 

Gas Water is mentioned in gas works records and is the liquor that was rich in ammonia salts and had a market for manures and chemical manufacture

 Chance and Hunt moved gas water to the Oldbury Alkali works by narrow boat and British Cyanides Co Ltd works at Oldbury

Thomas Clayton, apart from tar and oil carried gas water to the Oldbury Tar Works and also the British Cyanides works at Oldbury

 

This traffic being bulk liquid traffic, there was also the conveyance of chemicals in carboys etc-----

Cowburm and Cowper brought boats to Courtaulds with Carbon Bisulphide, Caustic Soda and Sulphuric Acid. there was also some traffic in Acetic Acid along the BCN to the Coventry Canal.

 

[fanshaft]

On 06/04/2024 at 21:41, DandV said:

Thanks for that. 

Lube oil in simple tanks makes sense. Specially built boats didn't seem to make sense.

And now I know how great grandmother's Wright's Coal Tar Soap was really just a way of maximising the yield from a toxic by product of coal gas production! I remember it smelt vile compared to fragrant Lux.

 

Don

The Claytons boats and the tanker barges on the larger waterways (e.g. 'Exol Pride' now running lube oil from Hull to Rotherham)  didn't/don't have tanks installed.  The only boats with tanks, historically, that I can think of were five or six narrow boats of the Cowburn and Cowpar fleet which had cylindrical tanks, 4ft 6in in diameter.  So why were these not prone to capsizing?  An answer given to me was that the centre of gravity was lower with the heavier/denser acid compared to light weight fuel oil.  In more modern times (May 1978) a cylindrical tank, approx 9ft in diameter and about 38 ft in length was fitted by me into the hold of Leeds & Liverpool short boat 'Irwell' as a trial for carriage of waste liquid from Esholt to Knostrop (Leeds) where it was either pumped off into any waiting tanker barge or up the pipeline into the works, a highly efficient operation. The tank arrangement had two drawbacks, however - the weight of the tank (5 tonnes) reduced the payload to 45 tonnes, and when returning light there was a tendency for the tank to catch the lowest bridge in Leeds if the pound was slightly high.  It was also not too easy to see over the top when empty!  Thus short boat 'Everton' (a more modern and better carrier) was converted into a tanker with an arrangement similar to the Claytons i.e. tight bulkheads each end of the hold and a centre bulkhead with a valve to allow for trimming when loading, and to discharge the forward area.  Again an on board diesel pump was very efficient, a payload at 56 tonnes excellent and a wheelhouse with wheel steering provided a degree of comfort for the crew.  I was assured that both vessels would be dangerously unstable without baffles but in fact that wasn't an issue at all. (I was also informed that it would be impossible to steer a short boat with a wheel and this turned out to be untrue as well - after all Sheffield size and West Country keels were being provided with wheel steering without issue.)

Both boats occasionally went to Goole when there was a stoppage on the L&L canal.  The traffic ended when the need to dispose of sludge from Esholt in this manner (to sea) ceased although the larger tankers carried on running from Knostrop and Long Sandall down to Goole until the 1990s when sea disposal was finally ended.    

Edited April 10 by fanshaft

[Tam & Di]

39 minutes ago, fanshaft said:

Thus short boat 'Everton' (a more modern and better carrier) was converted into a tanker with an arrangement similar to the Claytons i.e. tight bulkheads each end of the hold and a centre bulkhead with a valve to allow for trimming when loading, and to discharge the forward area.  Again an on board diesel pump was very efficient, a payload at 56 tonnes excellent and a wheelhouse with wheel steering provided a degree of comfort for the crew.

Not a tanker, but we fitted our 74' x 14' Trent barge Clinton, running grain from Tilbury to Weybridge, with water ballast for running light. Suitable pipework and stop cocks enabled it to be filled or emptied using a powerful pump driven off the main Gardner 5LW.

 

 

Edited April 10 by Tam & Di

[jonesthenuke]

On 10/04/2024 at 08:17, BEngo said:

Gas water was also derived from the coke.  After it left the ovens the coke was red hot and, in air, would start to burn.  So the coke was quenched with water.  Some  water turned to steam, which, with some coke, might be fed back into the gas producers, but as the coke cooled, there was a lot of water contaminated with products that could be extracted and sold.

 

A Gasworks wasted nothing.

 

N

 

I agree that water was used to quench the coke, however, my recollection is that the raw gas was passed through water to remove the denser components and reduce the smell. The result would be water saturated with oils, creosote, ammonia etc. This was a valuable source of chemicals and was thus collected and transported to chemical processing works for extraction of useful chemicals 

[BEngo]

Another source of gas water, though not as common, was the water used as a seal in the old-style rising gasometers.   After a period of years in  use it was well saturated with gas by-products so could be pumped out and recycled during a planned maintenance period. 

 

N

[DandV]

The remaining boats, and the photographs of them are undoubted very valuable, and hopefully durable relics, but are only one dimension.

This thread has been valuable to me in adding a lot to, of  another dimension, one not so durable, that of the context. Why and what?

And even some about about that third dimension, the dimension that is increasingly  uncomfortably for many of us, not so durable.

The  people involved, and their lives. The who. 

So thanks everbody who has contributed  in making this thread so interesting to me. 

[jonesthenuke]

There are videos on coal gas manufacture on Youtube. The first one below gives some idea of the byproducts that were collected/made and is thus relevant to the tanker trade (the sound is terrible but just about intelligible). The second gives a more hands on view of the actual gas making.

 

[Ian Mac]

Clayton specialised in carrying any liquids, when they first started they just had open boats, however following a  boat overturning on the Thames government pass a law saying all liquids would be carried in enclosed tanks, and thus the tar boat was born. In the 1920's Clayton got a contract to deliver 200tns a week of Saudi light oil from Shell Stanlow to there facilities in Oldbury. This mean at least 10 boats on the job. Sometimes the oil was collected from Shell Trafford Park rather than Stanlow, not sure why that happened. This was stopped after the war when the Pluto pipeline system was slightly deregulated and the oil could be pump down the pipeline and became available from the Kidderminster pumping station, so it became cheaper to road haul it into Oldbury.
Claytons other traffics of which people have written was the delivery of liquids from gas works to tar distilleries. This would bring Clayton boats all around the country. There was a southern fleet of wide beams which dealt with the London Gas works.

 

Another oil traffic not sure who ran this one, was bringing petrol up the Seven from Avonmouth to Worcester. Infamous for one of the boats blowing up the Seven Rail Bridge. One thing these boats would do, is to shoot the weirs when the river was in flood. No need for Locks!

 

Pluto only runs down from Stanlow to Avon Mouth then Southampton Water Not sure if the link to the Isle of White is still used. I do not believe it is bidirectional which some of the other lines are.

Edited April 12 by Ian Mac

[Pluto]

2 hours ago, Ian Mac said:

Pluto only runs down from Stanlow to Avon Mouth then Southampton Water Not sure if the link to the Isle of White is still used. I do not believe it is bidirectional which some of the other lines are.

I'm knackered, so haven't run anywhere for years!

[Ray T]

https://www.canaljunction.com/heritage/craft/thomas_clayton.htm

 

I have ordered a model NB kit from here: https://www.mobilemarinemodels.com/margaret--joy-49-c.asp

 

I am considering modeling one of Claytons tanker boats. The hull is a GRP molding complete with rivets.

Having consulted "Claytons of Oldbury" I am unsure if any of Claytons tankers were of metal construction. I know the majority were wood.

Any help please?

 

Edited April 13 by Ray T

[max's son]

Spey out the water 

[springy]

AIUI all Clayton's tank boats were wooden, they did briefly own at least one second hand iron composite (Adder ex FMC IIRC) but disposed of it fairly quickly. For the tar traffic the wooden hull was important as it acted as an insulator keeping the heat in and the tar more liquid.

 

springy

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Ray T said:

https://www.canaljunction.com/heritage/craft/thomas_clayton.htm

 

I have ordered a model NB kit from here: https://www.mobilemarinemodels.com/margaret--joy-49-c.asp

 

I am considering modeling one of Claytons tanker boats. The hull is a GRP molding complete with rivets.

Having consulted "Claytons of Oldbury" I am unsure if any of Claytons tankers were of metal construction. I know the majority were wood.

Any help please?

 

You really shouldn't have posted that, its a long time until Christmas to be on my best behaviour 😁

[Ian Mac]

The other problem with Tin boats was they could not carry the same load. This is all to do with the centre of buoyancy and the centre of Mass, The centre of mass has to be below the centre of buoyancy, otherwise it will roll over to get them in the correct place. I believe they are know as a couple as both forces work together. The closer they are to each other the more unstable the craft is, untill they pass each other and then turn turtle in an attempt to sort the problem out

Adder was really unstable when loaded.

35 minutes ago, max's son said:

Spey out the water

We have replaced that plank twice now.
so 37,58, 89 and then again in 2020 as it would have been silly not to do it. May have lasted another 5 to 10 years.
Image shows the new wood laid out ready to have the scarf cut on to it before we steam it into place. The last plank to be replaced on that side.

[Ray T]

44 minutes ago, springy said:

AIUI all Clayton's tank boats were wooden, they did briefly own at least one second hand iron composite (Adder ex FMC IIRC) but disposed of it fairly quickly. For the tar traffic the wooden hull was important as it acted as an insulator keeping the heat in and the tar more liquid.

 

springy

Springy, thank you. It gives me an excuse to model Adder, perhaps?

Cowburn and Cowper had some metal tanker boats but AIUI these boats had long tanks in the holds which carried carbon disulphide for Courtaulds.

 

Edited April 13 by Ray T

[billh]

24 minutes ago, Ray T said:

Springy, thank you. It gives me an excuse to model Adder, perhaps?

Cowburn and Cowper had some metal tanker boats but AIUI these boats had long tanks in the holds which carried carbon disulphide for Courtaulds.

 

The tanks in the C & C boats looked very similar in size to the ones in their road tanker fleet in the 50s and 60s  .Scammel tractor units with quite small trailers. Which came first,tanks in boats or tanks on the road?

[Ray T]

[agg221]

2 hours ago, Ray T said:

Springy, thank you. It gives me an excuse to model Adder, perhaps?

Cowburn and Cowper had some metal tanker boats but AIUI these boats had long tanks in the holds which carried carbon disulphide for Courtaulds.

 

You could model Trent 5?

 

https://www.nationalhistoricships.org.uk/register/2476/trent-5

 

Alec

[fanshaft]

In view of the law mentioned by Mac (of which I was unaware)  presumably the enclosed arrangement per Claytons and their larger brethren counted as tanks. It didn't stop Mattys from running with phosphorous waste in open holds! 

The Severn tankers were operated by a variety of companies  but the best known were Harkers and Bowker and King. 

[Ian Mac]

Here is an image from the J.Greenway collection of NB Yeoford & NB Pictor on the Duckhams oil run. You can see the purpose made tanks inside the boats.

I am assuming this is taken somewhere on the Wryly, before Birmingham & Midland had a spat with British Waterways and Waterways took their dredger home.