Best place for a newbie to view boats?

[Emc]

Hello, I would like to buy a boat but I'm new to boating and would like to view a range of boats and different sizes to get a better understanding of everything.  

Is there a place I can go that will have a range of boats for sale that I might be able to look at? Or is it just a case of needing to reply to lots of individual adverts? I don't want to waste anyone's time by replying to individual alerts while I'm still uncertain about boat size preference etc. 

Any advice gratefully appreciated

Edited April 3 by Emc
Edited for typo

[RichM]

What type of boat are you looking for?

 

I recommend visiting a boat brokerage who will have many boats available for sale. There are many like Whilton Marina who will let you have a tour of the boats available and this will hopefully give you a better idea as to what's available within your budget. 

 

Also, sites like Apollo Duck (arguably equivalent to the auto trader of boats) will also give you a good feel for what's available. 

https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/

Also do research on what kind of layout you would like, reverse layout narrowboats are increasingly popular but may not be for everyone for example. Then you have a choice of sterns to choose from, e.g. traditional, semi-traditional and "cruiser". A lot of it is horses for courses but definitely research on this if you have not already.

[blackrose]

What part of the country are you in? Visit a brokerage and they should have a few boats for sale, but go online and see what they've got first and find out whether the boats are actually moored at the brokers. You may need to arrange a viewing.

[LadyG]

Google ABNB boats , go to 

Information

Boat styles

Lots of info and photos

[Pie Eater]

Have a look at the canal newspaper "towpath talk" online as there are lots of boat brokerages and adverts for boats for sale and then visit the ones in your area.

[Bacchus]

I should have thought the best place for a novice to pick up information would be at a boat-show. You're not wasting anyone's time there, they're literally there to tell you about their products.

 

If it's canal boats you're interested in, you could do a lot worse than going to Crick (https://www.crickboatshow.com/)

 

If it's other types of inland/sea-going boats, one of the boat shows at Southampton or Excel might be better.

[Tony Brooks]

6 minutes ago, Bacchus said:

I should have thought the best place for a novice to pick up information would be at a boat-show. You're not wasting anyone's time there, they're literally there to tell you about their products.

 

If it's canal boats you're interested in, you could do a lot worse than going to Crick (https://www.crickboatshow.com/)

 

If it's other types of inland/sea-going boats, one of the boat shows at Southampton or Excel might be better.

 

But there won't be many second-hand boats at shows, only a few brokerages with printouts of their websites. I am with the go visit brokerages advice.

[Bacchus]

17 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

But there won't be many second-hand boats at shows, only a few brokerages with printouts of their websites. I am with the go visit brokerages advice.

 

fair, but the OP said that he/she wanted "to view a range of boats and different sizes to get a better understanding of everything". Whenever I have been to a brokerage, it has been to view a specific boat. I wouldn't have thought a broker would take kindly to showing someone round every single boat they have.

 

Going to a boat show will give them an idea of what they think they want to purchase, then they can start looking at actual boats for sale - and anyway the OP didn't specify second-hand. The boats at a show will be for sale too, and they may have just won the lottery 🙂.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, Bacchus said:

Whenever I have been to a brokerage, it has been to view a specific boat. I wouldn't have thought a broker would take kindly to showing someone round every single boat they have.

 

The likes of Whilton give you the keys to 3 boats, you go on your own (no escort), view the boats, go back and get another 3 sets of keys and view some more.

Go in the Cafe and have a monster Fry-up.

Go back to the sales office and get another 3 sets of keys, repeat, repeat, repeat.

[Higgs]

If you're looking to buy most things, you will need a budget. What is available at the price you can cope with? And obviously, try and acquaint yourself with the variations and layouts, and equipment choices. 

 

 

[Lady M]

As it is coming up, Crick sounds like a good suggestion to me.  A lot of the boat exhibits will not be for sale but there will be plenty of opportunity to talk about boats and layouts, meet builders and boaters.  Spending another day or two in the area will allow for visits to a number of nearby second hand boat brokerages.

[Peanut]

Nothing to do with the style of boat you buy, but you will need to sort out, is where you will keep it.  Will you have a home mooring or keep moving around?  These are lifestyle choices which you need to be aware of, will you be able to keep moving all the time, or is there a mooring available near where you would like to be? 

[Jon57]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The likes of Whilton give you the keys to 3 boats, you go on your own (no escort), view the boats, go back and get another 3 sets of keys and view some more.

Go in the Cafe and have a monster Fry-up.

Go back to the sales office and get another 3 sets of keys, repeat, repeat, repeat.

Followed by a vist to the hospital to check your blood pressure and cholesterol levels. 😁

[Bacchus]

Oh, and a bit more advice for the OP - do the research, look at dozens, maybe scores of boats, decide on exactly what you want, and then fall in love and buy something that doesn't tick any of your boxes, but speaks to you! Can't speak for everyone, but that certainly seems to be what I do...

Edited April 4 by Bacchus

[Machpoint005]

2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

But there won't be many second-hand boats at shows, only a few brokerages with printouts of their websites. I am with the go visit brokerages advice.

 

Yes, me too. Brokerages, plural. Be prepared to travel around.

 

 

[cuthound]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The likes of Whilton give you the keys to 3 boats, you go on your own (no escort), view the boats, go back and get another 3 sets of keys and view some more.

Go in the Cafe and have a monster Fry-up.

Go back to the sales office and get another 3 sets of keys, repeat, repeat, repeat.

 

Seconded, I wouldn't necessarily buy from them, but they do have a wide range of boats you cab view unattended.

[Alan de Enfield]

19 minutes ago, cuthound said:

I wouldn't necessarily buy from them,

 

Corrected that for you !

[Tracy D'arth]

Whilton's other site is Venetian Marine in Cheshire, same applies, you can view as many as you like. A lot depends on where you are based. 

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Corrected that for you !

Unfair Alan. Many do and have had good experiences of buying from them. Its only the bad ones that get talked about.

I have bought from Whilton and have no complaints but it is alway buyer beware wherever you buy.

I do not like the unanswered question of ownership that sometimes comes up with Whilton though. 

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Corrected that for you !

 

The problem arises when the boat you really, really like is only for sale at Whilton. If that occurs you either buy it and apply lots of due diligence or don't buy the one boat that ticks all of your boxes. 

Edited April 4 by cuthound
sale not salt!

[Emc]

Thanks so much for getting back to me - so many useful responses! 

 

The Crick boat show looks great, so I'll try to get along to that. And going to a brokerage is also a great idea. I've been Googling some near-ish to London or East Anglia and will try to visit from next week hopefully. 

 

I'm currently living in south east London but for a while I lived in a flat overlooking the Grand Union canal and every day would walk past all the boats thinking how lovely it would be to live in one.

 

If I buy a boat, I would hopefully be on the Grand Union or Regents Canal travelling up and down rather than a mooring (I work in London several days a week so need to be based close by but I think moorings seem to be difficult to get?). I would also love to be able to travel over to East Anglia and the River Lark and around Cambridge and Ely but it looks like the stretch of canal from Milton Keynes to Bedford isn't completed yet (or maybe only for widebeams) which is a shame. 

 

My budget isn't huge relatively - up to around £80,000 (and only because a parent recently passed away, so I want to make sure I'm using that money as wisely as possible and preferably don't lose money if I need to sell etc). 

 

I love the interior look of widebeam boats (although from doing a bit of research, other boaters don't seem to be huge fans of people who have widebeams - and as a single woman potentially living on one, getting any sort of hostility from other boaters would be difficult). I also really love the idea of designing and creating an interior space myself (and learning some carpentry skills along the way), so have been tentatively looking online at widebeam sailaway boats which seem to sell for around £70,000. However I realise from reading other forums that fitting out a boat is a huge undertaking and not always the fulfilling project experience I'm hoping for. 

 

But anyway, the search begins!  Thank you so much for getting back on this, it's been really useful! 

 

 

[Stroudwater1]

There’s many boats for sale currently. It’s not far between Rugby boat sales, ABNB Braunston Marina and Wilton Marina. That will get you a large number to focus your thoughts. Some of those will chat over pros cons of boats etc. others less so. 

 

 I fear your aspirations meet that of very many. You need to be prepared to move your boat regularly, often double moor  sometimes queue for ages for water empty loos regularly deal with muddy towpaths. Is is really a boat you are after or a mobile home that floats? 
 

I suspect that you would do better if feasible to use some or most of the £80k for a house deposit and hire a boat occasionally? 
 

A boat is not an investment usually. 

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, Emc said:

I love the interior look of widebeam boats (although from doing a bit of research, other boaters don't seem to be huge fans of people who have widebeams - and as a single woman potentially living on one, getting any sort of hostility from other boaters would be difficult). I also really love the idea of designing and creating an interior space myself (and learning some carpentry skills along the way), so have been tentatively looking online at widebeam sailaway boats which seem to sell for around £70,000. However I realise from reading other forums that fitting out a boat is a huge undertaking and not always the fulfilling project experience I'm hoping for. 

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

I don't think the hostility is to all wide beam boats, on some waterways they are the norm.  I think the hostility is towards people who more such bats in stupid places causing difficulties of other boaters. Also, those who insist on moving them along what are canals built for narrowboats, again causing problems for other boaters when trying to pass them coming the other way, let alone overtake them - see below.

 

The wider the beam, the harder it is to steer and make progress on even the canals built for wide beam boats and the smaller rivers, so being caught behind a 13 or 14 ft beam monster weaving from side to side and moving so slowly the following boats have to keep moving their boats in and out of gear to be slow enough tries the patience of the most laid back boater, especially when the steerer on the offending boat is staring resolutely ahead and refusing to move to the bank to let faster boats go past. In the same circumstances, it is far easier to overtake another narrowboat.

 

Boats are a depreciating asset, and you are very likely to lose money when you come to sell it, although there was a surge in boat prices a few years ago that made that less likely, but don't bank on that. The upcoming 25% increase in continually cruising license fees may cause used boat prices to drop.

 

Basically, it is the idiots who create the friction.

 

If you continually cruise (see what CaRT says you have to do) in a wide beam, the London may not be a very accommodating place to be. If you double moor two wide beams you go a long way to blocking the canal. It would be far easier on the large northern canals and rivers.

 

The dream of fitting out a sail away hull, whilst not impossible, all too often ends in tears with a half finished boat and a broken owner. There is far more than just carpentry. There is the electrical systems to install, the plumbing, and as you say that you what to cruise the gas system. They and more all really should comply with the Recreational Craft Directive (EU) and the Recreational Craft Regulations (GB), both are, at present, the same.

 

Be prepared for it to take three to five times longer than you think it will and cost between three and five times more.

 

Anyway, best of luck with your search.

 

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Emc said:

If I buy a boat, I would hopefully be on the Grand Union or Regents Canal travelling up and down rather than a mooring (I work in London several days a week so need to be based close by but I think moorings seem to be difficult to get?). I would also love to be able to travel over to East Anglia and the River Lark and around Cambridge and Ely but it looks like the stretch of canal from Milton Keynes to Bedford isn't completed yet (or maybe only for widebeams) which is a shame. 

I don't mean to be rude, but you need to do far more research about the basics of owning and living on a boat before you worry about the finer points of which boat to buy. There are loads of boaters all wanting to be in and around London, and the place is basically full. They have grown in numbers over the last two or three decades, both encouraged by lifestyle articles in the media, and driven by the increasingly unaffordable cost of renting or buying in the capital. Official permanent moorings are few and expensive, so most London boaters are so-called 'continuous cruisers' engaged in an ongoing process of musical chairs shuffling about just enough to keep CRT's enforcement people off their backs. And many struggle to manage the movement, the need to fill water tanks, empty toilets, buy diesel and gas, generate enough electricity and not knacker the batteries, heat the boat etc., all while doing a 9-5 job in an office.

If you are in London 'several days a week' you won't have time to get any distance away in your non-working days.

Cambridge and Ely are a fortnight's travel away from London, via the narrow beam Northampton Arm. The Bedford-Milton Keynes Waterway is a pie-in-the-sky project which will take decades to complete if it ever happens. The only alternative route to the Anglian waters is via the sea or on the back of a lorry.

Sorry if that sounds brutal, but going starry-eyed and uninformed into boat ownership looks like an effective way of burning through your inheritance and ending up without a lot to show for it.

[Francis Herne]

1 hour ago, Emc said:

If I buy a boat, I would hopefully be on the Grand Union or Regents Canal travelling up and down rather than a mooring (I work in London several days a week so need to be based close by but I think moorings seem to be difficult to get?).

Bear in mind the rule for continuous cruisers to "satisf[y] the Board that the vessel to which the application relates will be used bona fide for navigation throughout the period".

 

In recent years CRT have interpreted this as a range of 20 miles (while moving a reasonable distance every 14 days or less), but have stopped publishing that guideline in the last year or two, I suspect as a precursor to applying more stringent criteria. In the past, BW and I think CRT have demanded much greater distances of movement with mixed success.

 

You will find it quite hard to find spots to moor in London, particularly for a large widebeam boat, because a very large number of people have had the same idea already. Most of the towpath has moored boats end-to-end, with narrowboats often moored two abreast. Services like water, Elsan and pumpouts are congested for the same reason.

 

CRT have begun 'solving' this for visiting boats by introducing fairly expensive pre-bookable moorings, with a limited number of days per boat per year. There is currently a consultation on introducing several more areas of this. Of course this further reduces the space available for free mooring on the towpath.

 

The number of people "continuously cruising", but really just shuffling back and forth within London over the shortest possible distance, is increasingly being seen as a problem to be solved by CRT (and a significant proportion of boaters, including some on this forum and frankly myself). It simply isn't viable for half the population of London to live on the canals, and ludicrous housing costs are pushing ever more people that way.

 

I would expect further changes of some sort in the next few years to make this less attractive - whether that's further increases to the CC surcharge, continued expansion of paid towpath moorings, a stricter interpretation of "bona fide navigation" or all of the above. Planning for the status quo would be unwise.

 

1 hour ago, Emc said:

I would also love to be able to travel over to East Anglia and the River Lark and around Cambridge and Ely but it looks like the stretch of canal from Milton Keynes to Bedford isn't completed yet (or maybe only for widebeams) which is a shame.

The proposed Bedford - MK canal is very aspirational and has no chance of being built in the foreseeable future. No significant work has been carried out on it besides some improvements to the river at Bedford.

As a Cambridgeshire native, I would like to see it too!

A narrowboat can get there the long way round via Northampton but not a wider boat.

 

1 hour ago, Emc said:

I love the interior look of widebeam boats (although from doing a bit of research, other boaters don't seem to be huge fans of people who have widebeams - and as a single woman potentially living on one, getting any sort of hostility from other boaters would be difficult).

I think antipathy to wide boats is overstated generally. Careless mooring of them does cause much more trouble than narrowboats as it's much easier to obstruct the channel. Disputes over mooring spaces might be an issue within London but not elsewhere.

 

A lot of people here dislike 'widebeam narrowboats' because they're ugly and usually very badly designed as boats for navigation, or because their owners are often interested in them as a residence first and as a boat a firm second, but no-one is likely to confront you over that.

 

You should consider that a big heavy boat will be physically harder work single-handed (mooring in crosswinds and the like, probably not viable to rope through locks so you'll be climbing ladders a lot). Manageable if you're reasonably fit, but narrowboats are easier!

[agg221]

If you are not looking to live in the cheapest way possible, there are permanent liveaboard moorings west of London which are within the range of the underground network. Engineer's Wharf sometimes has moorings, as does Brentford. They are, perhaps surprisingly, not always full with a long waiting list because they are not central London and it is more expensive than shuffling around the towpath, but they do come with water, power and the security of being there legitimately without any need to move.

Alec