Problems with payments

[Tam & Di]

6 hours ago, LadyG said:

When you pay someone, they give you a receipt, that's how business works.

Records are kept for accounting purposes.

Accounts are kept so tax is paid.

The taxman uses that money to keep the economy running.

When you pay someone in business you can ask for a receipt, certainly, and if appropriate these could be used to substantiate payments you've made in the personal accounts you present to HMRC. A 'statement of affairs' should show all the relevant transactions, but the figures shown there cannot be technically regarded as 'receipts' and used in the same way - they won't show any of the same detail.

 

I don't think you'll get very far trying to convince HMRC that this company is acting dishonestly.

[john.k]

What about the VAT man?.............used to feared once in the dodgy economy.

[MrsM]

I've reread the thread but am a bit confused. @LadyG have you clearly confirmed with the contractor that you no longer want him to finish the "next job", after he completed the "main job"? You were informed (presumably - unless of course you heard through a third party) that there was an issue with ill health so it seems fair to accept a delay in proceedings. If it is a case of you changing your mind then it seems entirely reasonable to me that he retains the couple of hundred pounds for being messed around. He may have turned down other work to be with you and is therefore faced with an unexpected gap in his diary. The fact that he has taken delivery, stored and may have already stated work on the materials you provided for the next job implies that he has actually begun the "next job". A couple of hundred pounds is at most only a day's work so I think he is justified in retaining your upfront payment. It seems reasonable to ask for the return of the materials but I expect he is not feeling particularly happy with how he has been treated. What precisely are your materials he has? As you say, he and his wife are trying to run a small business - not easy in today's economic climate. It sounds like they have done a satisfactory job for you to date and it is a great shame that relations have soured. 

[LadyG]

9 hours ago, Tam & Di said:

When you pay someone in business you can ask for a receipt, certainly, and if appropriate these could be used to substantiate payments you've made in the personal accounts you present to HMRC. A 'statement of affairs' should show all the relevant transactions, but the figures shown there cannot be technically regarded as 'receipts' and used in the same way - they won't show any of the same detail.

 

I don't think you'll get very far trying to convince HMRC that this company is acting dishonestly.

I'm not saying they are  I was responding to a poster who queried why a receipt is expected.

[truckcab79]

56 minutes ago, MrsM said:

I've reread the thread but am a bit confused. @LadyG have you clearly confirmed with the contractor that you no longer want him to finish the "next job", after he completed the "main job"? You were informed (presumably - unless of course you heard through a third party) that there was an issue with ill health so it seems fair to accept a delay in proceedings. If it is a case of you changing your mind then it seems entirely reasonable to me that he retains the couple of hundred pounds for being messed around. He may have turned down other work to be with you and is therefore faced with an unexpected gap in his diary. The fact that he has taken delivery, stored and may have already stated work on the materials you provided for the next job implies that he has actually begun the "next job". A couple of hundred pounds is at most only a day's work so I think he is justified in retaining your upfront payment. It seems reasonable to ask for the return of the materials but I expect he is not feeling particularly happy with how he has been treated. What precisely are your materials he has? As you say, he and his wife are trying to run a small business - not easy in today's economic climate. It sounds like they have done a satisfactory job for you to date and it is a great shame that relations have soured. 

 

I’d save your breath with the various possible scenarios to be honest. The OP has a history of hilarious posts about tradesman and posting pictures of the godawful work that they do.  I love them and a large part of me thinks she makes them up for something to write.   If the issues are as many as stated then you have to assume she’s either the unluckiest boater in the kingdom of boatdom or she’s the common denominator.  

Either way they’re my favourite thing on here and long may they continue. 👍

 

10 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I'm not saying they are  I was responding to a poster who queried why a receipt is expected.

I’ve never issued or been asked for a receipt in years of working.  I send an invoice. Client pays. End of process.  If they message me with an ‘all paid’ I’ll send them a many thanks. That’s it really. So far HMRC have not locked me up for using the thumbs up

emoji as a receipt. 😂

[MrsM]

21 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

 

I’d save your breath with the various possible scenarios to be honest. The OP has a history of hilarious posts about tradesman and posting pictures of the godawful work that they do.  I love them and a large part of me thinks she makes them up for something to write.   If the issues are as many as stated then you have to assume she’s either the unluckiest boater in the kingdom of boatdom or she’s the common denominator.  

Either way they’re my favourite thing on here and long may they continue. 👍

 

I’ve never issued or been asked for a receipt in years of working.  I send an invoice. Client pays. End of process.  If they message me with an ‘all paid’ I’ll send them a many thanks. That’s it really. So far HMRC have not locked me up for using the thumbs up

emoji as a receipt. 😂

My husband submits several large invoices a year and similarly has never issued or been asked for a receipt, but that is not the problem here as I understand it. I don't think anyone would be threatening to damage the reputation or try and cause a small business issues with HMRC/VAT over a lack of receipts! I agree that we will probably never know the full details of Lady G's dealing with her tradesmen, nor do we need to. However she chooses to make it the forum's business and if she can be guided to less acrimonious and stressful outcomes - for all concerned - surely that is a good thing? Sometimes it is hard to stand back and see another point of view and as a solo mature boater (who might at times feel slightly vulnerable?) it must be helpful to get other perspectives, or else she wouldn't air her issues in this way.

Edited to add: I have been following the forum for a good few years now and briefly met with Lady G a few years ago when she was in Lincoln. She was great company and I think she is admirable for what she manages to do her own - not without a little drama here and there admittedly, but I have much respect for her.

Edited March 28 by MrsM

[truckcab79]

Of course it would be a good thing,  if she’d listen. Unfortunately if you try to help, she doesn’t want it and the story just spirals into a load more nonsense.  Ref recent threads on her new sink and kitchen for a start. The work she pays for and posts on here is a very poor standard  but if it’s not all just fiction then I suspect her approach to the people she employs is the main issue and any tradesman who doesn’t complete the job has probably just had enough and walks. They shouldn’t keep her money but there’s so much work around currently that most can afford to pick and choose their clients. 
 

 

[MtB]

27 minutes ago, MrsM said:

I don't think anyone would be threatening to damage the reputation or try and cause a small business issues with HMRC/VAT over a lack of receipts!

 

No only this but HMRC probably get about 5,000 reports a day from disgruntled customers of all types of business, hoping to prompt an investigation when in actual fact the report has only been made due to a dispute between the parties. I very much doubt HMRC would take any action at all unless the report was one of many about the same business from lots of different people. They have their own, better methods of identifying the businesses that really need investigating.

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

I tried to assist her some time back  with regards to her flat in Scotland. She was unpleasant to deal with and quite insulting so I am not surprised that anyone working for her decides to down tools and jump ship.

[MrsM]

6 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

Of course it would be a good thing,  if she’d listen. Unfortunately if you try to help, she doesn’t want it and the story just spirals into a load more nonsense.  Ref recent threads on her new sink and kitchen for a start. The work she pays for and posts on here is a very poor standard  but if it’s not all just fiction then I suspect her approach to the people she employs is the main issue and any tradesman who doesn’t complete the job has probably just had enough and walks. They shouldn’t keep her money but there’s so much work around currently that most can afford to pick and choose their clients. 
 

 

That is not strictly true. She does listen and has been helped by many kind souls on here, both virtually and in person. You could try to see her as more than just a figure of fun. 

[Tony Brooks]

8 minutes ago, MrsM said:

That is not strictly true. She does listen and has been helped by many kind souls on here, both virtually and in person. You could try to see her as more than just a figure of fun. 

 

I have not met her, but right from her first posts I got the impression that she knows best - or thinks she does. When asking the forum about narrow boating and relating her previous experience, I well  remember that when I tried to explain that a narrowboat in shallow water coming when trying to come alongside behaves very differently to a yacht that probably has a round bilge, a keel and is in deeper water. I tried to explain how when reversing close to the side, prop thrust throws water between the swim and bank, which tends to push the stern away from the bank. Apparently she knew all about that, so I gave up. Much the same when an experienced member, working in the field, tried to advise on her kitchen refit, or the rudder drama. Then there were the battery problems with batteries located in unusual positions with non-typical wiring. Just my impression of her, so I tend not to respond so much.

[truckcab79]

19 minutes ago, MrsM said:

That is not strictly true. She does listen and has been helped by many kind souls on here, both virtually and in person. You could try to see her as more than just a figure of fun. 

Have never made fun of her. Tried to help her on a number of occasions with stuff that I actually do for a living. Met with rudeness and arrogance so not my loss.  I’ll enjoy her nonsense nonetheless. 

[Arthur Marshall]

7 hours ago, john.k said:

What about the VAT man?.............used to feared once in the dodgy economy.

VAT almost certainly irrelevant wuth a small frader, the turnover isn't high enough and usually the punter buys the materials, so just pays for labour. When the VATman got merged with the Taxman they got a bit less fearsome.

[GUMPY]

[Mike Todd]

On 27/03/2024 at 14:28, Paul C said:

If you overpaid them there is no right to refunds of the difference. Also what is a “statement of account”? They are not obligated to tell you if you’ve overpaid, it’s 99.9% likely they do have a record of it but are not obliged to pay it back.

 

Knowing the above, the best course would be to ask politely for it back.

Are you sure of this legal advice?

[truckcab79]

36 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

Are you sure of this legal advice?

Legally they’d be on very thin ice refusing to repay it without a good reason. It’s irrelevant in this instance because there is no overpayment.  She’s claiming that she’s essentially put herself in credit in advance of work completed. She’d need to prove what was refundable. They in turn could include deductions including materials purchased, labour prepping for the work that’s been booked, and admin to process it. If there was any sort of contract it could be slightly different, but I’m sure there won’t be.  In the real world they’ll just give it back and be glad to see the back of it I’d imagine.  😂

Edited March 28 by truckcab79

[Paul C]

53 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

Are you sure of this legal advice?

It’s not legal advice. But yes, sure.

[Mike Todd]

37 minutes ago, Paul C said:

It’s not legal advice. But yes, sure.

See (as the first example that came up on Google) https://www.hardingevans.com/news/2022/02/17/accidental-payments-into-your-account-a-dream-come-true-or-a-legal-nightmare/#:~:text=' but unfortunately%2C the answer is,you must pay it back.

 

I have long thought that it was called Theft

[truckcab79]

2 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

See (as the first example that came up on Google) https://www.hardingevans.com/news/2022/02/17/accidental-payments-into-your-account-a-dream-come-true-or-a-legal-nightmare/#:~:text=' but unfortunately%2C the answer is,you must pay it back.

 

I have long thought that it was called Theft

Not the same thing as what’s being discussed. This isn’t an accidental payment. It’s monies paid by a client (presumably for work agreed, and for agreed amounts), that is now not going to take place.  Verbal contract they could argue quite easily.  they’d be within their rights to keep it, but they won’t. It’s just not worth the hassle. I doubt we’re talking about a great deal of money either. Equally, taking it at face value LadyG could argue they’ve not kept their side of the contract by not completing work within a reasonable time.  All pointless conjecture on our part of course. Only she knows what conversation has taken place with them and I very much doubt their version would match.  
😂

[Paul C]

3 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

See (as the first example that came up on Google) https://www.hardingevans.com/news/2022/02/17/accidental-payments-into-your-account-a-dream-come-true-or-a-legal-nightmare/#:~:text=' but unfortunately%2C the answer is,you must pay it back.

 

I have long thought that it was called Theft

 

I'll PM my bank details if you like, then you can "accidentally" pay some money in (can be an arbitrary amount), then let us know how you get on clawing it back without me sending it back to you. Money where your mouth is???

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Paul C said:

 

I'll PM my bank details if you like, then you can "accidentally" pay some money in (can be an arbitrary amount), then let us know how you get on clawing it back without me sending it back to you. Money where your mouth is???

 

Jeremy Clarkson was of the same mind as you so he advertised his bank account number & sort code.

 

Using those details someone set up a direct debit to a Charity (rather than steal him money into their own bank account)

 

BBC NEWS | Entertainment | Clarkson stung after bank prank

[Paul C]

7 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Jeremy Clarkson was of the same mind as you so he advertised his bank account number & sort code.

 

Using those details someone set up a direct debit to a Charity (rather than steal him money into their own bank account)

 

BBC NEWS | Entertainment | Clarkson stung after bank prank

 

..........And the bit that you've missed, is that he could have used the Direct Debit Guarantee to have that payment refunded, but chose not to (for............charitable reasons). And in any case its a different thing, since I offered to PM my bank details, not put them onto the public domain.

[pearley]

We had a dormant Nationwide account with around £100 in it. I received a statement which showed a deposit of £19 from someone called WPA that I'd never heard of. It took over 2 months to eventually refund the money. WPA are a health insurers.

 

When we ran a business it was not unusual to get extra in a delivery or be paid twice. It was always a hassle trying to get another company to admit they'd made a mistake.

 

Conversely we had deliveries where items were missing. Again, suppliers often doubted my word which really pissed me off.

[LadyG]

I recently had a payment from my bank referring to an ATM transaction, but it must be many moons ago, I've checked back about six months, anyway I've not queried it, but it would help if they identified the date or location.

Edited March 29 by LadyG

[1st ade]

1 hour ago, pearley said:

We had a dormant Nationwide account with around £100 in it. I received a statement which showed a deposit of £19 from someone called WPA that I'd never heard of. It took over 2 months to eventually refund the money. WPA are a health insurers

Friends of ours had a teenage Son who was killed (by accident) on holiday - while clearing his affairs his parents found quite a large deposit which had gone to "the wrong David" - his parents had a hell of a job returning the payment and the payee blamed them for accepting it. Not nice while dealing with (early) bereavement.