Problems with payments

[LadyG]

OK, Ive been having work done, and although it was obvious to me as a small business owner that they were not au fait with book keeping  I let this pass as the work was satisfactory.

Unfortunately I have paid in too much, and have not had response to any of my emails. 

I have asked for Statement of Account. No response.

I've had enough and have told them to refund overpayment and return my materials. I used the email I was given. 

How to build a business. How to run a business. How to make friends and influence people. NO no No.

If they don't respond I'll  report them to HMRC, that will not be nice for them.

 I'm currently thinking of pursuing them, at 2.4mph!

PS if you're up North and having work done, feel free to pm.

 

 

Edited March 27, 2024 by LadyG

[haggis]

I am a wee bit confused ! How did you manage to overpay ? I thought you said you had agreed a price and how had he some of your materials?

. I thought the work was being done on your boat. 

If I read it correctly you say you have communicated by email. Emails can and do often disappear into cyberspace. Would a phone call or face to face meeting not be better,? 

 

[LadyG]

I have used the email they provided.

They are able to send me invoices but not a statement of account.

Its not me who is supposed to be in business, its them.

If they think they can run a business without records they will soon find the taxman can access their banks accounts. I've given them seven days to sort it out. 

I have had more than one job done, so several invoices.

One cannot be sure exactly how much each job will cost. So there has to be a degree of trust, and  the person who does the accounting is not the person who does the work.

If they don't want to do the work, then they need to return the money they owe me and return my materials. Its quite simple. 

Any face to face will be me demanding my materials and my money, there is no negotiation. 

Edited March 27, 2024 by LadyG

[Tracy D'arth]

Trouble, trouble and toil, trouble, toil and tears. An ongoing saga of a boat person. Serialised on a forum near you.

[Paul C]

If you overpaid them there is no right to refunds of the difference. Also what is a “statement of account”? They are not obligated to tell you if you’ve overpaid, it’s 99.9% likely they do have a record of it but are not obliged to pay it back.

 

Knowing the above, the best course would be to ask politely for it back.

[LadyG]

14 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Trouble, trouble and toil, trouble, toil and tears. An ongoing saga of a boat person. Serialised on a forum near you.

Yes well, it's a warning, they may be working locally on someone else's boat instead of finishing mine. 

[truckcab79]

You don’t appear to be asking a question or for advice so I’m not sure what you’re after. 
 

For what it’s worth HMRC will have no interest whatsoever.  Why would they?   Company has a responsibility to submit their turnover and pay the relevant tax.  They cant have done anything wrong in HMRC eyes as they won’t have declared their info until  the year after it’s happened?  
 

if you believe you have been wronged then you need to decide whether you have a criminal or civil case.  On the info provided you have neither. You have willingly paid more money up front than work completed and they have not YET done the work. Answering the phone or emails isn’t yet a crime.  

[Tracy D'arth]

1 minute ago, LadyG said:

Yes well, it's a warning, they may be working locally on someone else's boat instead of finishing mine. 

You mean that you have paid them, in fact overpaid, they have not finished the job and they have left?  Are you really that simple?

[truckcab79]

And too late now but you should know what a job is going to cost you up front. If a job is an estimate then ask for notification at the point it changes from that estimate. 
 

Either say you’ve had all the work done you intend to and ask for the balance  to be returned or suck it up and write it off.  
 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

Sound a bit like my bucket of grief with the fuel boat mob, which was all down to lousy accounting and crap communication. Some of these canal firms are so inefficient it's a wonder they stay in business, though it's odd that every mistake they make means you get overcharged, never, ever, under!

[truckcab79]

Just now, Arthur Marshall said:

Sound a bit like my bucket of grief with the fuel boat mob, which was all down to lousy accounting and crap communication. Some of these canal firms are so inefficient it's a wonder they stay in business, though it's odd that every mistake they make means you get overcharged, never, ever, under!

Not always. Sent a regular client a price for building some steps in reclaimed brick and stone. £2.5k.   Didn’t have it done for a while and then asked for an updated copy. Somehow I managed to send it with a price of £895. Did the work and when they queried the price I pointed out the original was clearly the correct one and the latter one a typo but my error and to pay the one they felt was correct.  They live in a £6m property…….and paid me £895 for the work. C’est la vie.  😂😂

[Higgs]

And always ask for the VAT price. It's a little detail some conveniently forget to mention.

 

 

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

You mean that you have paid them, in fact overpaid, they have not finished the job and they have left?  Are you really that simple

It seems unlikely that educated people who run an established business from their boat, who are in their sixties, have a workshop, two boats and a car are going to run off with my materials and have the taxman on their tail for the sake of a few hunded pounds.

Edited March 27, 2024 by LadyG

[haggis]

Is this the workman whose praises you were singing not all that long ago? 

I don't understand the statement of account bit. I tend to pay when I get the invoice and I don't expect anything else. I pay promptly working on the principle that having a reputation as a prompt payer stands me in good stead with other contractors. I am sure if I didn't pay promptly or had a reputation as a complainer things would be different. Word travels 😉

[LadyG]

21 minutes ago, Higgs said:

And always ask for the VAT price. It's a little detail some conveniently forget to mention.

 

 

Well you see, i dont think they are VAT registered, i mean i think they are trying to run their business under the VAT radar. They may not meet the VAT threshold as its all labour, few materials, they may not pay tax either, using a personal account is one  flag., but its not uncommon 

As i said earlier I dont think they have a clue about book keeping. Anyone can buy Quickbooks to keep their accounts, and when you have income and payments, you have to enter them in the software, could not be easier with a micro business.

Ive suggested they do this, aĺl they have produced so far are hand made invoices.

Edited March 27, 2024 by LadyG

[truckcab79]

5 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Well you see, i dont think they are VAT registered, i mean i think they are trying to run their business under the radar. They nay not meet the VAT threshold.

As i said earlier I dont think they have a clue about book keeping. Anyone can buy Quickbooks to keep their accounts, and when you have income and payments, you have to enter them in the software, could not be easier with a micro business.

Ive suggested they do this, aĺl they have produced so far are hand made invoices.

They don’t HAVE to do any of that though. They have to submit their tax return honestly at year end, a year in arrears and be prepared to justify their submission if HMRC take an interest. You’re making a load of assumptions about their ability to run their business and their honesty. 

[haggis]

Ah, so they are at fault for not giving you a nicely typed invoice? Nothing wrong with them keeping a notebook and entering the transactions by hand and writing out invoices. Nothing wrong with a company not being VAT registered if they are below the limit. I think the fact that you have suggested how they run their business might have something to do with the deterioration in communicating. I am probably wrong though.

[LadyG]

Of course i would normally pay when they invoiced me, but the main job dragged on, for various reasons, so i made an interim payment to get the next job started and finished

A statement of account is  like a bank acount, shows payments and invoices. Should be produced automatically if they use a simple bookeeping system. They evidently dont know how to keep books, thats their problem.

They should know how much i have paid them and how many invoices they have sent out.

They are in business, and if they dont keep proper records it will end in tears. 

12 minutes ago, haggis said:

Is this the workman whose praises you were singing not all that long ago? 

I don't understand the statement of account bit. I tend to pay when I get the invoice and I don't expect anything else. I pay promptly working on the principle that having a reputation as a prompt payer stands me in good stead with other contractors. I am sure if I didn't pay promptly or had a reputation as a complainer things would be different. Word travels 😉

 

I have paid them, its not my reputation tbat is in doubt here

 

[Naughty Cal]

Your reputation of falling out with tradesmen has never been in doubt 

[LadyG]

28 minutes ago, haggis said:

Ah, so they are at fault for not giving you a nicely typed invoice? Nothing wrong with them keeping a notebook and entering the transactions by hand and writing out invoices. Nothing wrong with a company not being VAT registered if they are below the limit. I think the fact that you have suggested how they run their business might have something to do with the deterioration in communicating. I am probably wrong though.

I have a business background, so I know that they dont understand accounting, at all.

I wanted the work done, and it was satisfactory, however the guy insisted his partner dealt with the finance. She is an educated person, so should be able to cope with producing invoices and answering emails.

23 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Your reputation of falling out with tradesmen has never been in doubt 

Absolutely, if they do the work properly, and present the invoice, they get paid immediately.

Ive asked for a statement, they havent sent one, ive told tbem to refund the overpayment and return my goods within seven days.

If there is some problem, and I think the last problem was ill health, they need to advise me.

I have no objection to their invoice as such, but that is only one part of running a businees, its not bookkeeping for accounting purposes. Its just a bill.  

When i made a payment, and ive made several they should acknowledge it, that is not what they are doing.

 

Edited March 27, 2024 by LadyG

[Paul C]

You could ask (or insist) on acknowledgment of payment. Send 1p first and if they acknowledge, send the rest.

[truckcab79]

1 minute ago, Paul C said:

You could ask (or insist) on acknowledgment of payment. Send 1p first and if they acknowledge, send the rest.

Don’t think paying is an issue.  Getting it back is.  😂

[LadyG]

I dont actually need acknowledgement  of payment, as I have my bank statement, but it is standard practice  not to mention courtesy.

In fact to help them produce a statement of account if they don't keep books I have sent them a list of my payments with dates. Twice ive done this.

I have had some detailed invoices when I have insisted on them , but no acknowledgement of those invoices being paid. 

Not all transactions are invoices paid,  some are , but for the bigger job, which went on for months for various reasons, I made interim payments, and sent an email saying these are business payments.

I won't be using them again, its too much hassle. 

 

 

 

 

[Paul C]

Why did you overpay?

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, haggis said:

Ah, so they are at fault for not giving you a nicely typed invoice? Nothing wrong with them keeping a notebook and entering the transactions by hand and writing out invoices. Nothing wrong with a company not being VAT registered if they are below the limit. I think the fact that you have suggested how they run their business might have something to do with the deterioration in communicating. I am probably wrong though.

Invoices are typed.

I have suggested the might use an accounting software, because it would make life easier for them, and because they seem unable to produce this statement of account, which is a simple document, it would acknowledge my payments, that is why I want it.

Edited March 27, 2024 by LadyG