Claytons' 'Stour'

[Francis Herne]

A friend without an account on here asked to post these pictures of Stour at the Black Country Living Museum.

 

She's recently been removed from the water and dumped on the bank with no plans to put her back any time soon. I think the pictures speak for themselves.

 

 

Edited February 1 by Francis Herne

[Sea Dog]

8 hours ago, Francis Herne said:

She's recently been removed from the water and dumped on the bank with no plans to put her back any time soon.

To be fair to the BCLM, they've not really "dumped" it on the bank - they've gone to the effort of supporting her on what looks to be a pukka bespoke frame. I'd have thought they've taken action to arrest it's decline by taking it out of the water and, even if there's no immediate plan, it is probably in relatively safe hands given the museums' raison  d'etre. Let's hope so anyway. Has the museum been asked?

[Derek R.]

A covered shed; lots of skilled and non-skilled volunteers required; and a huge amount of money.

A good frame to stand on, and by the straight level of the 'mud line', it looks to be comparatively sound, but that could be deceptive.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

6 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

To be fair to the BCLM, they've not really "dumped" it on the bank - they've gone to the effort of supporting her on what looks to be a pukka bespoke frame. I'd have thought they've taken action to arrest it's decline by taking it out of the water and, even if there's no immediate plan, it is probably in relatively safe hands given the museums' raison  d'etre. Let's hope so anyway. Has the museum been asked?

They've event tied it on to the frame with some blue string at the stern, so it won't accidentally blow away!

Sad to see the state it's in.

[Rob-M]

Such a shame it has been left to get in this state after the effort that went in to the last restoration.

[J R ALSOP]

Watch this space, all is not lost

[Ian Mac]

Without getting my screwdriver out the hull does not look too bad, after all it was all new thirty years ago, so most of it should not be dreadful. The cabin is a mess, but then so is ours, however you would need to be fairly skilled or have inside knowledge to know that, as we do constant maintenance (*after a fashion!)
The problem here is that a boat is a living thing, whilst it is a boat, and museums and their staff in the main are not about living things, they are about conservation and preservation,  that said the BCLM should have a better clue as the have the word Living in the title, and lots of stuff there is in fact modern replicas and working examples, so they should have been better able to couple with a boat. Wooden boats require constant maintenance, a docking and a good coat of looking at every year or so. The BCLM has not done this for a number of reasons, mainly I suspect because the a) could not afford it and b) did not know they had to - back to being in a Museum and how senior staff are trained to think.
So they will now need deep pockets, or to choose another path, and make it a static exhibit on the bank, but that will cost too.
What I do know is that we have over the last fifty odd years currently spent well less than a quarter of the money that has been expended on Gifford. However we have done the work ourselves, which is were the major cost comes from. Also Gifford has been in a higher standard of presentation than we have, for longer, but we have done considerably more miles. Once of a day we were allowed to play with her, taking her to rallies all over the place. They were magic times.
I attach a happy image.

[magpie patrick]

4 hours ago, Derek R. said:

A covered shed; lots of skilled and non-skilled volunteers required; and a huge amount of money.

 

 The bit in bold 

 

I was watching Bangers and Cash (whilst sorting Magpie the Elder's slide collection) last night and they were restoring a 1970s Saab. The materials were about £5k, the labour costs were north of £40k 

 

If that's what it costs for a 1970s mid size car, gawd knows what the equivalent is for a full length narrow boat!

[ditchcrawler]

As I see it, the problem is that money can be raised for the capital cost of a restoration but it can't be raised for ongoing maintenance . This seems true of lots of projects 

[Derek R.]

53 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

As I see it, the problem is that money can be raised for the capital cost of a restoration but it can't be raised for ongoing maintenance . This seems true of lots of projects 

Not just projects. Get fit in a gym is just the beginning. It is repeated visits and exercise (along with diet) that is essential to maintain that fitness.

Miss out on the latter, and that sofa will put you back to square one very quickly.

[zenataomm]

The hull itself "appears" tackle'able.  The cabin is merely a consumable once it's got to that stage.  What happens now she's out will dictate the future and timeframe.

Is the counter block likely to fall off?

What about the lump?

Is that castle nut locked on with a pin, although the blades look like tiddlers?

Are questions that spring to mind when sitting in the warm behind my keyboard.  Other questions are available ... 🫤

[Stroudwater1]

A covered wharf could be really useful at the BCLM, like the one at the top of Camp Hill locks that may be on its way out as the premises were being gutted in November. 
 

Wont help the hulls but will hopefully be better for exterior paintwork and reducing water ingress 

[billh]

11 hours ago, Ian Mac said:

Without getting my screwdriver out the hull does not look too bad, after all it was all new thirty years ago, so most of it should not be dreadful. The cabin is a mess, but then so is ours, however you would need to be fairly skilled or have inside knowledge to know that, as we do constant maintenance (*after a fashion!)
The problem here is that a boat is a living thing, whilst it is a boat, and museums and their staff in the main are not about living things, they are about conservation and preservation,  that said the BCLM should have a better clue as the have the word Living in the title, and lots of stuff there is in fact modern replicas and working examples, so they should have been better able to couple with a boat. Wooden boats require constant maintenance, a docking and a good coat of looking at every year or so. The BCLM has not done this for a number of reasons, mainly I suspect because the a) could not afford it and b) did not know they had to - back to being in a Museum and how senior staff are trained to think.
So they will now need deep pockets, or to choose another path, and make it a static exhibit on the bank, but that will cost too.
What I do know is that we have over the last fifty odd years currently spent well less than a quarter of the money that has been expended on Gifford. However we have done the work ourselves, which is were the major cost comes from. Also Gifford has been in a higher standard of presentation than we have, for longer, but we have done considerably more miles. Once of a day we were allowed to play with her, taking her to rallies all over the place. They were magic times.
I attach a happy image.

Location is Pottinger Street Bridge , Ashton Canal. Gartside's Brookside Brewery  stood where the new sheds are under construction, the brewery used water drawn from the Jeremy Brook which passes under the canal and railway at this point. The mill in the background was used by Hall & Kay Ltd who were air conditioning  and ventilation engineers originally for cotton mills for dust extraction and fire prevention. Building demolished about 1985. Extreme left is an electrification gantry , part of the BR Woodhead system opened in 1954, closed 1981. Interesting is the fact that the vertical  part of the gantry was fastened  down to the towpath. Ian, I'm  guessing the picture is about 1982?

[BEngo]

9 hours ago, billh said:

Interesting is the fact that the vertical  part of the gantry was fastened  down to the towpath. Ian, I'm  guessing the picture is about 1982?

 

The 1500 V DC electrification was planned and the overheads designed when the LNER owned and  ran the Woodhead line.  The LNER also owned the Ashton Canal  (with a depot in Gorton Tank) so it was probably not a hard ask to use the Ashton  towpath for the gantries.

 

The stretch of railway from Manchester to Glossop was re-electrified at 25 kV AC  after the DC line closed through Woodhead.  Some at least of the DC gantries were re-used.

 

N

[billh]

4 minutes ago, BEngo said:

 

The 1500 V DC electrification was planned and the overheads designed when the LNER owned and  ran the Woodhead line.  The LNER also owned the Ashton Canal  (with a depot in Gorton Tank) so it was probably not a hard ask to use the Ashton  towpath for the gantries.

 

The stretch of railway from Manchester to Glossop was re-electrified at 25 kV AC  after the DC line closed through Woodhead.  Some at least of the DC gantries were re-used.

 

N

The railway certainly were in charge of the canal up until nationalisation, the canal staff were answerable to the District Engineer at Guide Bridge Station, I have several  items of correspondence between the Canal Inspector (George Lucas) and the DE.

The electrification  of the route between Guide Bridge and Stalybridge is set to go live (25kV AC) in a month's time. All the gantries on the main line next to the picture have been replaced with new, the original DC wiring only reached Dukinfield Central Station providing a head shunt for the Brookside sidings.The siding alongside the towpath gave rail access to the Prince's Dock  about 200 yards away. The last use of this dock was loading 12 tons of coal into NB Joel for distribution to the various lock keepers  then resident on the canal.

[David Mack]

39 minutes ago, BEngo said:

The stretch of railway from Manchester to Glossop was re-electrified at 25 kV AC  after the DC line closed through Woodhead.  Some at least of the DC gantries were re-used.

And across Manchester, the line out to Altrincham was first electrified at 1500Vdc, was then converted to 25kV ac when West Coast Main Line electrification reached Manchester Piccadilly, then when the route became part of the Metrolink tram system, it was converted to 750V dc. Many of the original rivetted gantries remain in use.  And I understand that when the trams started running, some sections of the overhead conductor line remained from 1500V days, having operated at three different voltages, although the whole route was been rewired since.

[max's son]

 

Back in late 50' early 60's

[angelasoldman]

With Spey on the dock !

[max's son]

 

[DHutch]

Nice photos. 

[tarboat]

On 02/02/2024 at 23:29, billh said:

Location is Pottinger Street Bridge , Ashton Canal. Gartside's Brookside Brewery  stood where the new sheds are under construction, the brewery used water drawn from the Jeremy Brook which passes under the canal and railway at this point. The mill in the background was used by Hall & Kay Ltd who were air conditioning  and ventilation engineers originally for cotton mills for dust extraction and fire prevention. Building demolished about 1985. Extreme left is an electrification gantry , part of the BR Woodhead system opened in 1954, closed 1981. Interesting is the fact that the vertical  part of the gantry was fastened  down to the towpath. Ian, I'm  guessing the picture is about 1982?

The photo is from 1979 Bill.

[Ian Mac]

I seem to remember that MAx told me that the image of Spey on the Slip was from 1958. THe yard had renewed all the uxter boards and the second plank. Also note the engine room roof is not attached so I suspect the engine may have been removed for an overhaul. Something it is due again.

The other image of NB Spey is post 1976 and pre 1979 as there is only the one water can on the roof. Alf Tolley pained two for us, the one in the image and a black one, which was stolen. It will be interesting to see if the black one eventually appears for sale somewhere!