Dear oh dear...

[MtB]

14 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I would suggest not the near zero rate of building new homes but the near zero rate of building homes of the right type.

 

Everywhere I go Ii see masses of new houses being built, however, they are mainly large detached expensive homes.

 

I would suggest the occupation density of large detached homes is not that much lower than that  of one bedroom starter homes. 

 

When I owned a decent-sized four-bed, a family of six of us lived in it. Would you have our family split up and living in three or four one bed starter homes? 

[Jerra]

3 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I would suggest the occupation density of large detached homes is not that much lower than that  of one bedroom starter homes. 

 

When I owned a decent-sized four-bed, a family of six of us lived in it. Would you have our family split up and living in three or four one bed starter homes? 

The point is there is no shortage of large houses for those who can afford them, what is needed are houses within the price range of people looking to start on the property ladder.   Most are single or young couples.  I suspect you would have a long search for a family of 6 still living with parents as they haven't been able to start on the property ladder.

 

Large detached houses do not solve the housing crisis for those who most need houses.

 

 

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, Jerra said:

The point is there is no shortage of large houses for those who can afford them, what is needed are houses within the price range of people looking to start on the property ladder.   Most are single or young couples.  I suspect you would have a long search for a family of 6 still living with parents as they haven't been able to start on the property ladder.

 

Large detached houses do not solve the housing crisis for those who most need houses.

 

 

 

 

Totally agree with all that. 

 

The answer is to build as many houses as the population needs (whatever that means), not whine about the size of them.

 

Shove the supply of a good up, and the price goes down. 

 

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

2 hours ago, peterboat said:

I was interested that without migration the population would stay static 

 

 

If it the same report, it is also interesting that in early 1800s something like 90% of the population lived and worked in rural areas and 10% lived and worked in the cities, this has now almost completly reversed with 89.3% (2023) of the UK population living in 'urban' areas

Edited February 3, 2024 by Alan de Enfield

[ditchcrawler]

11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

If it the same report, it is also interesting that in early 1800s something like 90% of the population lived and worked in rural areas and 10% lived and worked in the cities, this has now almost completly reversed with 89.3% (2023) of the UK population living in 'urban' areas

And how many of them owned a house?

[MtB]

9 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

And how many of them owned a house?

  

 

Several hundred....

 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

30 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

Totally agree with all that. 

 

The answer is to build as many houses as the population needs (whatever that means), not whine about the size of them.

 

Shove the supply of a good up, and the price goes down. 

 

And that's why it won't happen. And that's why the council houses got sold. Tough on people, but the profits (and the rents) are fantastic. You've got to get your priorities right.

[MtB]

16 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

And that's why it won't happen. And that's why the council houses got sold. Tough on people, but the profits (and the rents) are fantastic. You've got to get your priorities right.

 

 

Totally agree, and betting the farm on property back in the mid 90s has turned out to be a good decision.

 

Thanks for your approval. I'd no idea you'd done the same. 

 

 

 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

11 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

Totally agree, and betting the farm on property back in the mid 90s has turned out to be a good decision.

 

Thanks for your approval. I'd no idea you'd done the same. 

 

Neither approve or disapprove ... my attitudes to landlords rather depends on how they treat their clients. Some, as we know, are appalling, some are great, some just do the job they are meant to. Rental property is essential and landlords who treat it as a business have to make a living, which means reasonable profits. Nowt wrong with that.

I lived in various rented places for thirty years and never had a problem. And, for a couple of years, was a landlord myself. Never had the money or the desire to do it permanently.

[Tracy D'arth]

The other factor increasing demand for housing is the large number of separated/divorced couples. One family split needs two properties.

[MtB]

9 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

The other factor increasing demand for housing is the large number of separated/divorced couples. One family split needs two properties.

 

Good point. 

 

This is also driving the number of liveaboard boats. Family splits up, mother and kids stay in the same house, bloke goes and buys a narrowboat to live on. See it repeatedly. 

[Jerra]

3 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Neither approve or disapprove ... my attitudes to landlords rather depends on how they treat their clients. Some, as we know, are appalling, some are great, some just do the job they are meant to. Rental property is essential and landlords who treat it as a business have to make a living, which means reasonable profits. Nowt wrong with that.

I lived in various rented places for thirty years and never had a problem. And, for a couple of years, was a landlord myself. Never had the money or the desire to do it permanently.

I agree.   Somehow modern society has moved to a situation where you think you must be able to afford and buy a property.   Wonderful if you can, however when I was young renting was the norm, three quarters of the village was council housing.  Only the well off owned or had aspirations to own a house.

A certain female prime minister destroyed the rental stock and gave everybody aspirations that many had/have no chance of fulfilling.

 

[Mike Todd]

On 03/02/2024 at 12:26, MtB said:

 

 

The actual law says "the Board are satisfied that a mooring or other place where the vessel can reasonably be kept and may lawfully be left will be available for the vessel, whether on an inland waterway or elsewhere"

 

And carlt (IIRC) used to often say on here that he had an "other place" to keep his vessel. This "other place" was a bit of canalside hard standing he knew of with a crane available. 

 

I have my doubts about whether the board would be "satisfied" with this. 

OK (?) if out of the water - plenty of people do this seasonally, mostly at a marina/boatyard. It is assumed that they calculate that they will save money on the licence - seems to me that they must have access to exceptionally cheap cranes!

[ditchcrawler]

16 hours ago, MtB said:

  

 

Several hundred....

 

 

Not in our village when I was a kid, even then most were council or owned by farms and that was as late as the 1960s

[magnetman]

1 hour ago, Jerra said:

A certain female prime minister destroyed the rental stock and gave everybody aspirations that many had/have no chance of fulfilling.

 

Yes but giving people aspirations probably helps to manipulate voting patterns. 

 

So given that her only aim as with many others was to get voted in again short term populist policies make sense in a way. 

 

Sunak could learn a thing or two. Banning more dogs won't cut the mustard. 

Edited February 4, 2024 by magnetman

[Adam]

3 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

OK (?) if out of the water - plenty of people do this seasonally, mostly at a marina/boatyard. It is assumed that they calculate that they will save money on the licence - seems to me that they must have access to exceptionally cheap cranes!

We had our narrow boat surveyed at Dunchurch pools - out and In £195 including vat. 

[Naughty Cal]

6 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

The other factor increasing demand for housing is the large number of separated/divorced couples. One family split needs two properties.

People forget that side of things. 

 

During the covid pandemic some good friends of ours divorced and their then 20 year old son moved out and bought his first house.

 

They went from one house to three in the space of a few months.

[system 4-50]

Some ideas for the government:

1. Students must live at home.  No student accommodation is to be provided by Universities.  If going to a university in a different town then the student must arrange a parents swap.  The current student accommodation can then house a family instead of a part-time resident student.

2. Divorce is not to be allowed unless/until both parties have found a new partner.  This way no intermediate single housing is required.  Certain days of the year will be recognised as "swap" days.  Dating systems will be extended to include property details in addition to the normal vital statistics.

Edited February 4, 2024 by system 4-50

[DandV]

22 hours ago, Jerra said:

The point is there is no shortage of large houses for those who can afford them, what is needed are houses within the price range of people looking to start on the property ladder.   Most are single or young couples.  I suspect you would have a long search for a family of 6 still living with parents as they haven't been able to start on the property ladder.

 

Large detached houses do not solve the housing crisis for those who most need houses.

 

 

There is no one size fits best.

Whilst the bulk of absolute  housing need, no spare bedrooms, is for one or two bedroom units, there is also a requirement for multi bedroom properties, even five and six bedrooms,  for those who choose to live in multigenerational family arrangements,

Not the norm in those of us with  Anglo Saxon heritage, but not uncommon for those with different heritages. 

Here, particularly for our maori and pacifika peoples but increasingly those with Asian heritage.  

[magnetman]

Extradite anyone who doesn't own property. Send them to 'stralia with a tenner in their pockets. 

 

 

The country would do perfectly well with the collective wealth of the property owners. Who could wish for more after all it is only a small country. 

 

All that money yum yum. 

[Ken X]

18 minutes ago, DandV said:

There is no one size fits best.

Whilst the bulk of absolute  housing need, no spare bedrooms, is for one or two bedroom units, there is also a requirement for multi bedroom properties, even five and six bedrooms,  for those who choose to live in multigenerational family arrangements,

Not the norm in those of us with  Anglo Saxon heritage, but not uncommon for those with different heritages. 

Here, particularly for our maori and pacifika peoples but increasingly those with Asian heritage.  

This reminds me of my upbringing in West London.  One local street had a large row of terraced houses all occupied by Sikhs.  It became apparent that people were entering at one end of the row and exiting at the other.   Turned out that they had knocked through doorways right through the loft spaces and were living as one big commune.

 

To be honest it worked really well.  The elderly sorted the child care whilst the workers were out and if the elders fell ill the family pitched in to support them.

[Alan de Enfield]

36 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Extradite anyone who doesn't own property. Send them to 'stralia with a tenner in their pockets. 

 

When Australia was advertising for poms to immigrate we applied, got all the way thru the paperwork and to the final Inteview at Australia House which seemed to go well, but a week later we got our "sorry - refused" letter, the only thing I can think it could have been was when they asked .........

 

"Do you have a criminal record ?"

 

and I replied

 

"Sorry I didn't realise it was still a requirement"

[Allan(nb Albert)]

16 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

When Australia was advertising for poms to immigrate we applied, got all the way thru the paperwork and to the final Inteview at Australia House which seemed to go well, but a week later we got our "sorry - refused" letter, the only thing I can think it could have been was when they asked .........

 

"Do you have a criminal record ?"

 

and I replied

 

"Sorry I didn't realise it was still a requirement"

You should have owned up to the Max Bygraves LP ...

[Slim]

On 03/02/2024 at 21:17, dmr said:

When you are too old to drive a boat or drink beer then its time to step aside

I did, for one of them. ☹️ 

[MtB]

8 hours ago, magnetman said:

Extradite anyone who doesn't own property. Send them to 'stralia with a tenner in their pockets. 

 

 

The country would do perfectly well with the collective wealth of the property owners. Who could wish for more after all it is only a small country. 

 

All that money yum yum. 

 

But its imaginary money though. Fix the housing supply problem and the "wealth" of the property owners you mention will evaporate because house values will tumble. 

 

Supply and demand innit. Flood the market, any market, with supply and the price drops accordingly. Which of course is exactly what we need in the housing market and why it won't happen, all neatly encapsulated in one mechanism. 

Alternatively fix the demand side by reducing the population to fit the number of houses we already have. Equally politically unacceptable!