How many more people are moving onto the canals?

[David Mack]

7 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

I am not advocating it but removing the right to a licence without having a home mooring would get there a lot quicker and at much less cost. But it would entail parliament to act instead of posing.

Actually, enforcing the current rules as they were envisaged by Parliament when the 1995 Act was passed would be a good start, and wouldn't require any further parliamentary involvement. So instead of just going for the low hanging fruit - those who range over less than 20 miles, CRT should announce that from some specific future date all new applicants for a licence without a home mooring will be required to move more frequently and over a much greater distance - say only 10 stays in one place exceeding 7 days duration per year, (and none exceeding 14 days) and a requirement to cover a total distance travelled of say 1000 miles covering at least 250 miles of the network. All existing holders of a non home mooring licence should have to comply with the same requirements from a date five years later. That means all existing CCers have five years to take a home mooring, adapt to more extensive travelling or move off the water, while all new applicants have to satisfy the Board etc. That will make bridge hopping/CMing much less attractive while retaining the CC option for those first whom the exemption in the '95 Act from the requirement to have a home mooring was actually intended.

 

[magnetman]

The CRT should be putting out literature to existing boat owners who live on their boat indicating that the correct protocol when interacting with random strangers is to say 'living on a boat is terrible'. 

 

Otherwise people will get the wrong idea. 

 

similar thing needed with newspapers. Bad News stories 'How the CRT ruined my idyllic life' &c. 

 

 

[Jerra]

10 hours ago, system 4-50 said:

We are overpopulated.  We are unable to grow enough food to feed ourselves despite highly intensive methods that make no allowance for the varying climate that this country is known to have had in the past.  We can import stuff now but this will not always be true.  The standards for housing have been watered down so they are smaller.   Our population density makes no allowance for the vast areas of our country that nobody wants to live in.  We have insufficient wealth-creating industries to absorb extra workers but we are highly skilled in developing service industries that drain resources.   We are going to seed, with the decline in living standards that goes with it, and its only going to get worse.  We are going to be poorer and poorer.  

I think the last time we were able to feed ourselves was in the 18th century so it isn't a new phenomenon.  

 

The population then was around 6,500,000

[MtB]

6 hours ago, Jerra said:

I think the last time we were able to feed ourselves was in the 18th century so it isn't a new phenomenon.  

 

The population then was around 6,500,000

 

 

Some population density stats for comparison:

 

The UK has a land area of a little over 90,000 square miles with a population of 68m approx. 755 people per square mile on average.

 

The Gaza Strip currently in the news has a land area of 141 square miles and a population of 2m, 14,184 people per square mile. Roughly 20 times the population density of the UK.

 

Hong Kong has an area of 1,000 square miles approx and a population of 7.4m. 7,400 people per square mile. ten times our population density.

 

France has a landmass of 213,000 square miles. Population is the same as the UK at approx 68m, which is 319 people per square mile. 

 

 

[Bee]

Seems to be 4 - 5 lived in motorhomes within a dogwalk of here now, No doubt there are some sort of rules and regs being broken and they are "getting away with it". "It" being council tax and all the other things that ccers are "getting away with". What is it that gets boat owners so upset about people buying boats to live on? Those boats are still floating around the system somewhere whether there is someone on board or not. Why should a boatowner have a mooring? We only have a winter mooring and nobody turns a hair that we are entirely without a mooring for the summer and we might end up in Holland, France or Belgium for the winter. There are more insufferable rules about how long you can stop for on CRT waters now and the more expensive it gets the more those who can pay hate those who can't and the more those who can pay demand more rules to keep the rest in line. If you encourage authoritarian organisations they just get worse until there is no pleasure left in anything. The boater with a battered Springer is not the enemy, leave him alone. 

[system 4-50]

10 hours ago, Jerra said:

I think the last time we were able to feed ourselves was in the 18th century so it isn't a new phenomenon.  

 

The population then was around 6,500,000

One day we will be able to feed ourselves again.  Because a lot of people will have died off to get us back to nearer that figure in a major famine.  Unless we still have sufficient unburnt oil to turn into food, or we have perfected limitless energy from nuclear fusion that is not the Sun.  Or we have invented perpetual motion.  Look up famine in Wikipedia to see how fragile our food supply has been.  In olden times a crop yield of 7 for 1 was excellent.  Now with modern technology we get 30 to 1, but our population has grown to an extent where we depend on that.  Spanish Flue and Covid have reminded us that our environment hates us and that we should be planning for the worse yet to come.

But it won't happen today, so have a nice day!

[Momac]

14 minutes ago, Bee said:

Seems to be 4 - 5 lived in motorhomes within a dogwalk of here now, No doubt there are some sort of rules and regs being broken and they are "getting away with it". "It" being council tax and all the other things that ccers are "getting away with". What is it that gets boat owners so upset about people buying boats to live on? Those boats are still floating around the system somewhere whether there is someone on board or not. Why should a boatowner have a mooring? We only have a winter mooring and nobody turns a hair that we are entirely without a mooring for the summer and we might end up in Holland, France or Belgium for the winter. There are more insufferable rules about how long you can stop for on CRT waters now and the more expensive it gets the more those who can pay hate those who can't and the more those who can pay demand more rules to keep the rest in line. If you encourage authoritarian organisations they just get worse until there is no pleasure left in anything. The boater with a battered Springer is not the enemy, leave him alone. 

It seems a lot of narrowboaters in the UK with a home mooring think everyone should have the same type of boat and behave exactly as they do.

And C&RT are supporting this  extremely intolerant and discriminatory way of thinking targeted at minority groups.

 

[mrsmelly]

4 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

Some population density stats for comparison:

 

The UK has a land area of a little over 90,000 square miles with a population of 68m approx. 755 people per square mile on average.

 

The Gaza Strip currently in the news has a land area of 141 square miles and a population of 2m, 14,184 people per square mile. Roughly 20 times the population density of the UK.

 

Hong Kong has an area of 1,000 square miles approx and a population of 7.4m. 7,400 people per square mile. ten times our population density.

 

France has a landmass of 213,000 square miles. Population is the same as the UK at approx 68m, which is 319 people per square mile. 

 

 

Its shocking where we live in Ceredigion. The population density is 40 people per square KM, I dont know what that equates to in proper money?

[MtB]

12 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Its shocking where we live in Ceredigion. The population density is 40 people per square KM, I dont know what that equates to in proper money?

 

Probably about £8m per square km.

 

 

[Jerra]

30 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Its shocking where we live in Ceredigion. The population density is 40 people per square KM, I dont know what that equates to in proper money?

It must be absolutely terrible up here in our area it is 4.758/square Km

 

Well, it was in 2021 I doubt it has changed much.

[magnetman]

My inner city area has a density of 15,695/Sq Km. 

 

Hmm. 

 

the country estate boat is in a slightly less dense place. 

 

 

 

Interesting about the cats 

 

 

https://www.data.gov.uk/dataset/febd29ff-7e7d-4f82-9908-031f7f0e0860/cat-population-per-postcode-district

They have dogs per postcode as well but the data is in comma separated values form I can't read it on the phone.

 

One wonders if someone has done ant population per postcode. 

 

 

[StevieN]

On 18/11/2023 at 11:23, blackrose said:

Yes, it's called an overpopulated country and a housing crisis. It shouldn't really be news to anyone with any experience of boating that the waterways are becoming increasingly overcrowded.

But is that true of *all* waterways?

 

Whenever I've been out travelling I've noticed the canals in the south seem rather more populated than those in the north.

 

Is that to do with work or just that people prefer to be nearer to the capital?

[BilgePump]

Our urban town is 5,380/km2. Just out of interest the population density on the Icon of the Seas cruise ship is over 400,000/km2 (using 365m length x 68m beam x max 9950 crew and passengers)

[Pluto]

At school, our geography master suggested that most of the population was densest from the neck upwards.

[Jerra]

4 minutes ago, Pluto said:

At school, our geography master suggested that most of the population was densest from the neck upwards.

Surely that was only the class he was talking about.       😁😁

[IanD]

1 hour ago, MartynG said:

It seems a lot of narrowboaters in the UK with a home mooring think everyone should have the same type of boat and behave exactly as they do.

And C&RT are supporting this  extremely intolerant and discriminatory way of thinking targeted at minority groups.

 

More accurately, a lot of narrowboaters with or without a home mooring who follow the rules -- including where to moor and for how long --think that the CMers abusing the system should do the same.

 

If they do that I think few people would give a fig about what they look like or what kind of boat they have...

[Naughty Cal]

8 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

Some population density stats for comparison:

 

The UK has a land area of a little over 90,000 square miles with a population of 68m approx. 755 people per square mile on average.

 

The Gaza Strip currently in the news has a land area of 141 square miles and a population of 2m, 14,184 people per square mile. Roughly 20 times the population density of the UK.

 

Hong Kong has an area of 1,000 square miles approx and a population of 7.4m. 7,400 people per square mile. ten times our population density.

 

France has a landmass of 213,000 square miles. Population is the same as the UK at approx 68m, which is 319 people per square mile. 

 

 

They don't grow much food in Hong Kong!

5 hours ago, Bee said:

Seems to be 4 - 5 lived in motorhomes within a dogwalk of here now, No doubt there are some sort of rules and regs being broken and they are "getting away with it". 

Unlikely. 

 

Break a "rule or reg" in a motorhome and you are having your home taken away from you.

 

The DVLA don't p*"s about like CRT! 

[LadyG]

21 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

Indeed it does, but that IS where governments get all the extra money needed to spend more than their income. 

 

 

 

So watch out if you decide to vote Labour. Rampant inflation, here it comes.

 

 

 

Well we have inflation now, well above targets, and it's not a labour government,so that argument is flawed.

 

[Naughty Cal]

37 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Well we have inflation now, well above targets, and it's not a labour government,so that argument is flawed.

 

I'm not sure Labour could have stopped the war in Ukraine which has led to a great deal of UK inflation recently!

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, Naughty Cal said:

I'm not sure Labour could have stopped the war in Ukraine which has led to a great deal of UK inflation recently!

Er, if your mortgage has gone up hugely recently, I don't think Putin had much to do with it. I realise some posters on here are desperate to avoid any allocation of blame to the party that's been in power for yonks and wasted billions of squids on duff PPE and tracking systems that didn't work, but really...

Edited November 19, 2023 by Arthur Marshall

[Naughty Cal]

7 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Er, if your mortgage has gone up hugely recently, I don't think Putin had much to do with it. I realise some posters on here are desperate to avoid any allocation of blame to the party that's been in power for yonks and wasted billions of squids on duff PPE and tracking systems that didn't work, but really...

The UK government do not set interest rates. That is down to the BOE.

[peterboat]

7 hours ago, Bee said:

Seems to be 4 - 5 lived in motorhomes within a dogwalk of here now, No doubt there are some sort of rules and regs being broken and they are "getting away with it". "It" being council tax and all the other things that ccers are "getting away with". What is it that gets boat owners so upset about people buying boats to live on? Those boats are still floating around the system somewhere whether there is someone on board or not. Why should a boatowner have a mooring? We only have a winter mooring and nobody turns a hair that we are entirely without a mooring for the summer and we might end up in Holland, France or Belgium for the winter. There are more insufferable rules about how long you can stop for on CRT waters now and the more expensive it gets the more those who can pay hate those who can't and the more those who can pay demand more rules to keep the rest in line. If you encourage authoritarian organisations they just get worse until there is no pleasure left in anything. The boater with a battered Springer is not the enemy, leave him alone. 

Do they move? If so as long as they are causing obstruction of the highway they aren't doing anything wrong as long as the vehicles are road legal. Cornwall recently had to explain its actions with a freedom of information request on campervans second time of asking they eventually provided the required information. Afterwards a series of prosecutions had to be reversed. We park on roads etc using various apps we have never been asked to move on. We use lots of very cheap car parks as long as we are allowed. 

[system 4-50]

8 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Do they move? If so as long as they are causing obstruction of the highway they aren't doing anything wrong as long as the vehicles are road legal. Cornwall recently had to explain its actions with a freedom of information request on campervans second time of asking they eventually provided the required information. Afterwards a series of prosecutions had to be reversed. We park on roads etc using various apps we have never been asked to move on. We use lots of very cheap car parks as long as we are allowed. 

not?

[MtB]

51 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Er, if your mortgage has gone up hugely recently, I don't think Putin had much to do with it. I realise some posters on here are desperate to avoid any allocation of blame to the party that's been in power for yonks and wasted billions of squids on duff PPE and tracking systems that didn't work, but really...

 

 

And you expect Labour to do any better at managing the economy?!

 

 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

2 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

And you expect Labour to do any better at managing the economy?!

 

Can't see how they can do any worse. For a start, they get scrutinised carefully by every newspaper in the country, which the current lot don't.

But that rather isn't the point. The point is you appear to be defending strenuously the lot who have been mismanaging it for the last twelve years and hoping desperately they will carry on destroying it. Which is odd.

As everyone outside the UK appears to know, we were very lucky to have Brown in charge when the last banking crisis hit.

3 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

The UK government do not set interest rates. That is down to the BOE.

Of course. I forgot Truss's budget had absolutely nothing to do with it. Silly me.