Hexagon Boat with Nana Engine and Hydraulic Drive … any good

[Didne]

oh dear … As a newbie looking for my first boat, I do seem to have a penchant for liking boats that aren’t quite standard … I’ve taken all your sage advice and given up on the gas-free-boat … since then I’ve been looking at lot of others that already have gas and a woodburner … and yes I’ve found another boat I really like … however it’s built (and fitted out) by a boatbuilder I’ve never heard of before … ‘Hexagon Boat Builder’ … with an engine I’ve never heard of before either  … ‘Nana’ (don’t know what size) … and it has an ‘hydraulic drive’ which I never even knew existed … it’s 14 yrs old … There’s another boat in the same marina which apart from being a couple of feet shorter and a couple of years older, has the same spec and the same layout so I’m supposing it must be a’production line boat’ rather than a bespoke one … The broker insists that hydraulic drive is a fabulous thing (well he would wouldn’t he)  … but I know nothing about them  … Are any of you able to tell me any more about Hexagon, Nana, or Hydraulic Drives and more to the point, are they good things, or are they best avoided ?
 

cheers, Didne xxx

 

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

Nanni engine?  A R Peachment are the UK folk.  Ferryman base engine I think you will find. French company.

 

Hydraulic drive is engine driving an hydraulic pump, control valve and hoses to hydraulic motor attached directly to the prop. So no alignment or gearbox problems. Engine can be anywhere in the boat, some are in the bow for quietness. Bow thruster can be driven same way.

 

Did you not google?

[magnetman]

Nanni is usually a Kubota engine. Nice motors.

 

Nannidiesel is the brand. 

[RAB]

Topic peaked my interest , mainly due to a past life having to use a hydraulic drive systems as a starter for large engines. I quickly googled pros/cons on using hydraulic drives on narrowboats and the following previous thread came up, which you may find useful (not fully read it myself yet). Also I apologise as not sure how to put a direct link to the thread🤔. If you use the search feature you may well find other similar topics. 

 

 

[Mike Tee]

We have a hydraulic drive and its fine, no issues (so far!). Feels no different to a 'normal' gearbox - the plus for us is with a trad backcabin, the floor is the same level as the rest of the boat, although its a big step down from the back door.

[Tony Brooks]

I would want to confirm it really is a hydraulic drive, rather than a mistake involving a hydraulic gearbox.

 

It may be slightly more fuel hungry than a similar boat with a gearbox.

[agg221]

We have a hydraulic drive on Oates. In addition to the comments made above (which I agree with) there are a few more things that are useful to know.

 

If the engine, pump and motor are well matched, it is a long-lived and reliable drive system. The hoses are expensive but are not exposed to the UV and flexing that they would be in, say, an excavator so they too are very long-lived. They also give a warning sign that they are about to fail by bulging. The only requirement is to keep the filter clean and change the hydraulic oil from time to time (do find out what the right specification is). The oil is cheap.

 

There are two types of pump. One is forwards/off/reverse so feels like a gearbox, the other has a variable angle plate (swash plate). The latter is infinitely adjustable which is nice if you have it but not essential.

 

It's a more expensive system to buy than a simple prop shaft, but if done properly and looked after it should see you/the boat out. Ours was installed by the previous owners c.2003 and has been around the whole system and is still going fine.

 

Do check that there is a header tank, that it has a level gauge and that there are no obvious leaks as sorting them out is a pain. It's easy to test if the set-up is right, just take the boat for a spin and check that it picks up properly and does not feel excessively laboured or slow for the engine revs. Listen out for the slight whine (inevitable) but check it has not got very loud, which would indicate a problem. Try forwards and reverse (btw, although you could probably wear it faster eventually by going from forward to reverse at high revs, it is a lot more tolerant to this than a mechanical gearbox is). Having run it, check the oil temperature and see whether it has an oil cooler or not. Some (inc. ours) don't ever get hot enough to need one if the pipe run is reasonably long and it runs against the hull.

 

Would I only have a hydraulic drive? No. Would I take out a perfectly decent prop drive to fit a hydraulic drive? No. Would it put me off buying a boat if it had one fitted? No - I would be quite happy to have another.

 

Alec

[MtB]

4 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Ferryman base engine I think you will find. French company.

 

Or is it Farymann, the German company? 

 

Here's a pretty one:

 

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

Farymann it is.   These are an old engine. Kubota seem to have replaced them.

[Sea Dog]

A Nana engine sounds like it might run on tea and shortbread biscuits whilst crocheting wooly blankets. Perhaps it's the eco way ahead?

[Mike Tee]

You obviously didn’t know my Nana - she ran a big busy pub in Corby right through the last war. Her husband was well over 6’ and built like the proverbial but she was the one who sorted out any trouble!

[davem399]

If I remember correctly, Hexagon narrowboats were/are built in Poland.  Before they went bust, Ownerships had some Polish built narrowboats, possibly by Hexagon?

[Francis Herne]

Nanni engine in mine (Kubota base).

 

Lovely engine, but the only UK dealer is Peachment who are awful to deal with. Long lead times, poor quality control, and generally unhelpful.

 

For new engines I'd get the Beta equivalent, but shouldn't be a dealbreaker if it's in a boat you like. You won't have to put up with Peachment often unless something's badly wrong.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Francis Herne

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Francis Herne said:

Lovely engine, but the only UK dealer is Peachment who are awful to deal with. Long lead times, poor quality control, and generally unhelpful.

 

They also do Hydraulic drives 

[Tracy D'arth]

20 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

They also do Hydraulic drives 

So it could well be a Peachment package.

[Didne]

Thank you all … well that’s enlightening … So Nanni engine not Nana ! (that’s what it said on the spec sheet ! … no mention of shortbread biscuits  … no wonder I couldn’t find it ! … yes I did google it all, and did find the thread linked, thank you, and a bit on hydraulic drives (but not if they were any good on a narrowboat)… However, any mention of Hexagon Boat Builders remains elusive … still no idea whether their hulls are any good 

 

 

 

xxx

Edited November 3, 2023 by Didne

[Francis Herne]

The comment above that their hulls were built in Poland seems in line with what Google says.

 

In that case I think they probably built a boat that was moored next to me for a couple of weeks -- it was a similar age to the one you're looking at and the owners said it had been built in Poland. I don't remember the builder but wasn't an Aqualine which are the other foreign-built boats I've heard of.

 

That one appeared in very good condition for its age, inside and out. The owner who'd just bought it said the hull survey came back almost as-new, and we were both very impressed by the electrical installation (all nicely labelled, routed and secured; many boats seem like bodge jobs).

 

[Having seen the electrical panel in the link below I'm now almost certain it was a Hexagon boat; very similar.]

 

At 14 years old how the boat's been looked after will be starting to matter as much or more as the original build quality, especially for the hull. There really isn't a substitute for a survey - on your own behalf, not shown to you by the seller or broker.

 

Presumably it's this one?  https://www.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/hexagon-boats-60-semi-trad-for-sale/738893

 

The very low well deck is an unusual feature on a new-ish boat. Is it above the waterline? I like them, but there's an obvious downside to the ones that are below the water and rely on a pump to remove rainwater.

 

The price is a bit higher than I'd expect but I suppose that reflects the new paint job.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Francis Herne

[john.k]

There can be a big difference in hydraulic drives .....all the way from Linde axial piston to cheap ally body gear or vane  pumps / motors ...... difference in efficiency and cost........Id say Linde and Daikin Sundstrand would be the top of the tree .........incidentally ,good old Joe Lucas used to make hydrostatic drives ,not bad quality either .

[blackrose]

On 02/11/2023 at 03:45, agg221 said:

Try forwards and reverse (btw, although you could probably wear it faster eventually by going from forward to reverse at high revs, it is a lot more tolerant to this than a mechanical gearbox is). 

 

A hydraulic gearbox is also a lot more tolerant to this than a mechanical gearbox. My PRM 150 is designed to be able to go from directly from forward to astern, but of course I have far too much inherent mechanical sympathy to ever perform such a manoeuvre except in an emergency situation.

Edited November 3, 2023 by blackrose

[Didne]

Ah … yes the cats out of the bag it is the one linked above by Francis … the low well deck is one of the features I particularly like as it means its easy access from within the boat for my 91 year old mum and also that the bow seat lockers are at normal seat height which is also a lot easier for her … As a newbie I must admit I hadn’t paid the slightest bit of attention to where the water line is or where the rain water goes so thank you for bringing that to my attention !

 

Edit …I see now that on the brokers website there’s an extra photo showing the well deck … I can’t see any drainage holes … but there is a little cut-out in the middle of the floor mat …

 

 

There was mention of taking it for a test drive if we go for a second viewing
 

what sort of price do you think might be more reasonable for that boat ? … it is over budget and doesn’t have any solar panels or covers for front or stern, which I’d like to have in future … 

 

Cheers

Didne

xxx

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by Didne

[Tracy D'arth]

The water tank is very small, impossibly so if its to be a live aboard IMHO.

[Didne]

Oooh ok … thanks … what size water tank would be better ?

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, Didne said:

Oooh ok … thanks … what size water tank would be better ?

 

Mine was 1000 litres, the one on my current boat is 600 litres.

 

300 litres is way to small even for a 'holiday boat'. If you are planning to liveaboard your life will revolve around finding taps to keep refilling the tank. It is made worse by having (2x) toilets using the same water tank to flush.

 

The thing with a sunken well-deck is that is awkward to get out of the boat via the 'bow' you need to build a step up to the seat which then tends to restrict the floor space as it is quite narrow, and then you skin your shins as you go over the side - and that was a sprightly 60 (+) year old.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[Didne]

Does the ideal water tank size depend on how many people are on board ? … For weekends and holidays with up to 4 people I can see that the water usage would be increased  … but when it becomes a liveaboard it would just be me (unless I find myself swept away in a crazy whirlwind romance !) (unlikely !) … so would 300 l still be too small for a solo liveaboard ? … while there are two loos, I can’t see that fact leading to me using them twice as often as I would if there was only one … I’d prefer cassette loo but it is what it is … the ‘spare’ one will probably just end up being a cupboard … xxx

[IanD]

4 minutes ago, Didne said:

Does the ideal water tank size depend on how many people are on board ? … For weekends and holidays with up to 4 people I can see that the water usage would be increased  … but when it becomes a liveaboard it would just be me (unless I find myself swept away in a crazy whirlwind romance !) (unlikely !) … so would 300 l still be too small for a solo liveaboard ? … while there are two loos, I can’t see that fact leading to me using them twice as often as I would if there was only one … I’d prefer cassette loo but it is what it is … the ‘spare’ one will probably just end up being a cupboard … xxx

Depending on frequency and length (oo-er missus...) showers are usually as big a water consumer as the toilet -- or sometimes bigger, if you're my daughter... 😉

 

300l is very small, it might be OK for a solo liveaboard but does mean you have to get to a water point a lot more often than a bigger tank -- which may or may not be an issue depending on where you moor and how much you travel.