Fuel boats - don't pay in cash.

[Annie cariad]

Like to hear the fuel boats side of this 

[Tonka]

9 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Correct, they text me to tell me when they are on the Macc, and I text back if I want anything. They then text me with the cost. It's all a matter of trust, which is what has gone pear-shaped.

It's a mistake, and they aren't prepared to admit it. It's obvious what's happened, the cash has been shoved in a pocket, spent in the shops or the pub and they've forgotten to tick the book in the rush of sales. I think they are, or were, fairly new at running the boat, I'd not met them before though 4 Counties Fuels have been running the boat with various people for years.

I never have been bothered about money (old hippies aren't). They'll get a cheque (I had to look to see if I'd still got one!) and a demand for a written receipt and a letter stating how I feel about it. Then it's up to them if they want to cash it. It gets them out of my hair, and they've had the last of my business, which is a shame. I'm not interested in making a fuss or falling out with them, I'll just have no more dealings. I do wish them well, as I've said we'd all be worse off without the fuel boats - as a leisure boater in my last few years it won't affect me much.

I just thought it was worth the warning to get a receipt if you pay cash.

 

So if as you say you are not making a fuss

What is this thread about

[koukouvagia]

I've never had any trouble all the years I've been using Jules Fuels.  I pay using online banking.  If I'm not on board I get a text telling me how much I owe and I pay straight away.  Works perfectly.  If I ever needed, I'd be able to prove I'd paid via my bank. 

(Incidentally, I've literally not spent a penny in hard cash anywhere since before the pandemic).

[magnetman]

They used to say cash is King but now it seems cash is merely a Count. 

[Midnight]

10 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

.....I think they are, or were, fairly new at running the boat

 

I think you are correct I used them twice this year and the two people on the boat I'd not met before.

What I find odd is that they filled you up and, if I've read your post correctly, left supposedly without being paid yet didn't give you an invoice or a receipt or text you what you owed. I saw them in Middlewich as I was walking the towpath and asked them to drop me a bag of coal. I then received a text tellling me how much it cost. Difficult one but if you are 100% sure you paid, as you seem to be, then I suggest you just let them know you will not be paying again. 

[john.k]

is there such a thing as Consumer Affairs/Small Claims Court ?..........a stat dec from your wife and self presented with a claim for Relief from Payment should settle the matter at no cost to you.

[magnetman]

Small Claims Court. 

 

I think just a letter to indicate intention to take the matter to the Small Claims Court would probably sort it. 

 

 

[David Mack]

It is the supplier who would have to take Arthur to the Small Claims Court, since it is they who are claiming he hasn't paid.

[Tracy D'arth]

I stopped dealing with 4 counties fuels after they ripped me off royally for coal from their land based delivery. They charged me a surcharge of £1 a bag for the disposable but reusable sacks which I offered them back but they would not take them.

[john.k]

It costs nothing ,and he will get a "Relief from payment" order from the court ......which is an official document ,and can be used against the fuellies if they should put him on a credit watch list.,or try to do something more unsavory such as sell his debt to shonky lawyers ........which will cause all sorts of drama for him.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Tonka said:

What is this thread about

 

I would have thought it was obvious.

 

If buying fuel from a fuel boat make sure you can prove you have paid them, especially if paying by cash. 

 

Otherwise you could find yourself in the same situation.

 

The thread is a warning to others.

[mrsmelly]

1 hour ago, koukouvagia said:

 

(Incidentally, I've literally not spent a penny in hard cash anywhere since before the pandemic).

Several businesses here in my small town/village are cash only. There are three takeaways, a chinese an Indian and a Pizza Kebab joint. All three are very busy serving all surrounding village folk, I had a kebab last night, all take only cash. Long may it continue, rather than sleepwalking into giving the banking system full control, when bank charges will simply go up. 

[Mike Todd]

12 hours ago, M_JG said:

 

We noted that a number of businesses in Cornwall when we were down there last month on holiday were card only.

 

When I queried (with the nice deli) in Fowey why this was, the answer was quite simple 'nowhere to deposit any cash takings in town, all the banks have closed down'

 

Sure enough a few buildings along the street were obvious 'ex-banks' complete with blocked up night safes in the front.

 

So its not really a political thing but rather the fault of the banks.

It is a good working hypothesis that any small business 'cash only' is in some way acting illegally or at the very least, contrary to the terms of their personal bank account. In my experience, all of the high street banks charge more for receiving cash than the credit card companies, even for small turnovers. It usually means that the business is either recycling the cash without it going on the books or or confusing business and personal expenditure. Even minimal accounting practice is that all cash received is banked and re-drawn if cash payments are needed (form a self employed person avoiding VAT?) One danger is the HMRC my start to investigate and decide that you owe more tax than your calculations have indicated - they may just 'estimate' your income and ask you to prove otherwise.

 

The sad thing is that I have met some hard working, otherwise honest, individuals trading cash-only without realising the risks that they are taking.

[magnetman]

I'm often tempted to ask if there is a discount for paying with cash. Maybe we could settle on 20 percent. 

[Mike Todd]

12 hours ago, M_JG said:

 

I froze the cards intially and rang around to see if it had been handed in at any of the shops or the pub we had lunch in but no luck.

 

So if anybody found it they didnt appear to have done the honest thing. 

 

That said I did once lose a debit card (HSBC) and the bank rang me to let me know it had been reported lost by the person who found it. Untill that call I wasn't aware I'd lost it.

 

They had rung the contact number on the card.

 

So yes honest folk exist.

 

 

A few years back (well perhaps at last ten!) when online purchase of train tickets was fairly new, I bought one to pick up at the local station, which I was visiting to pick someone up anyway. I retrieved the tickets and walked off as the train was arriving. Only a little later on the way back home I realised that I had left my card in the machine. I dropped my visitor off and went back for another person, getting there about an hour later. By that time the card had been handed in at the ticket office (remember them?) and the staff there had already reported it to the card company (so of course it could not then be used).

 

The machines are still somewhat behind the curve technologically and have a high problem rate (talk to non-ticket station staff!) but they at least have long upgraded to confirm that you have removed the card before they print the tickets! 

11 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I'm often tempted to ask if there is a discount for paying with cash. Maybe we could settle on 20 percent. 

What legal reason would any business have for agreeing a cash discount these days, let alone 20%?

[magnetman]

It is interesting that a coal boat would be worth running using someone else to drive it. I always assumed it would be an owner steerer type of job. 

 

If you do use someone else to drive the boat and handle transactions it seems wise to be on top of it otherwise problems like this will crop up. 

 

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

 

What legal reason would any business have for agreeing a cash discount these days, let alone 20%?

 

I wasn't thinking of legal reasons it was more to do with the fact they are probably not putting it through the books.

 

Card Only can be funny if you go to an establishment which serves the food and drink before you pay. 

 

If it says card only but was not that well advertised and you have no card they will take cash rather than watch you walk out of the door. 

 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

2 hours ago, Tonka said:

So if as you say you are not making a fuss

What is this thread about

Learn to read, you'll find it helpful.

[magnetman]

 

I had this recently where a relative took us to a decent pub and she wanted to pay cash (money laundering) but they said card only. I was with three female relatives who all do have cards but they all looked blank. 

 

I'm afraid to say that because the young lady asking was so ridiculously fit I got my card out and put it on her machine. Ooh baby ! 

 

Then the relative gave me the cash. 

 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, Midnight said:

I think you are correct I used them twice this year and the two people on the boat I'd not met before.

What I find odd is that they filled you up and, if I've read your post correctly, left supposedly without being paid yet didn't give you an invoice or a receipt or text you what you owed. I saw them in Middlewich as I was walking the towpath and asked them to drop me a bag of coal. I then received a text tellling me how much it cost. Difficult one but if you are 100% sure you paid, as you seem to be, then I suggest you just let them know you will not be paying again. 

This is largely what I've done. I've mentioned in my letter that the business, which does a lot of filling and dropping off in absentia, depends on trust. I've asked them to delete all my personal info as I won't be using them again.

7 minutes ago, magnetman said:

It is interesting that a coal boat would be worth running using someone else to drive it. I always assumed it would be an owner steerer type of job. 

 

If you do use someone else to drive the boat and handle transactions it seems wise to be on top of it otherwise problems like this will crop up. . 

 

 

Four Counties run a couple of boats, Halsall and Alton, and until Jason left, Bargus, all based at Bollington Wharf on the Macc. The registered office is there , though oddly the postcode is wrong either at Companies Hiuse or on their site.

[Mad Harold]

Would it be worthwhile finding the boss of this outfit, and going to see him in person and having it out man to man?

[casper ghost]

1 hour ago, john.k said:

It costs nothing ,and he will get a "Relief from payment" order from the court ......which is an official document ,and can be used against the fuellies if they should put him on a credit watch list.,or try to do something more unsavory such as sell his debt to shonky lawyers ........which will cause all sorts of drama for him.

Relief from payment order is only really for people who can't afford to pay their debts and seek a court order so they can have a pause on payments, not much help in this case.

Casp'

[magnetman]

3 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

Would it be worthwhile finding the boss of this outfit, and going to see him in person and having it out man to man?

He might have to get past the wife first. 

[blackrose]

13 hours ago, M_JG said:

 

So yes honest folk exist.

 

About a year ago my wallet fell out of my pocket outside a branch of of Screwfix in Peterborough as I was pulling my car keys out to unlock the car. As I reversed out the parking spot I drove over a black object and remember thinking WTF is that? 15 mins later when I arrived at my next destination I realised what had happened and drove back to the car park and checked with the staff in Screwfix but it was gone. There was 70 quid in the wallet plus 2 debit cards.

 

About 3 months later I received a random Facebook message from someone I didn't know asking if I'd lost a wallet. She didn't have it but she was part of a Facebook group with a guy who apparently did.

 

Eventually he got in contact with me and I went around to his house to pick it up. It was a Muslim guy and his wife opened the door and then he came down in full "nightshirt" and gave me a rather mangled wallet, damaged from being run over. He apologised for taking so long to find me and told me he'd forgotten about it but his daughter had nagged him to go on Facebook and try to find me. Not only was everything still inside the wallet including the cash, but he also produced a second brand new wallet which he said was a gift to make up for mine being damaged!

 

I'd bought him a couple of chocolate gift sets from a supermarket on my way over and gave them to him in appreciation of his honesty. He said I didn't need to do that but I told him to give them to his wife and daughter. He then hugged me and we said goodbye!

 

I really can't imagine that sort of honesty and respect from an average English chav family.

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by blackrose

[MtB]

52 minutes ago, magnetman said:

It is interesting that a coal boat would be worth running using someone else to drive it. I always assumed it would be an owner steerer type of job. 

 

Me too, and particularly in the case of Halsall. Wasn't it "Junior" of this forum bought Halsall about ten years ago and de-converted to run as a fuel boat? Does he no longer operate it? 

 

 

[magnetman]

9 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

 

I really can't imagine that sort of honesty and respect from an average English chav family.

 

What about a Muslim chav family?