Victron - The only choice.

[truckcab79]

New to all this and still learning.  Everything I see on websites and YouTube is Victron, as if nothing else exists.   Are there other reliable and obviously lower priced brands that people have first hand experience of?   Does half the community actually use some off-brand import but don’t like to admit it publicly?   

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

In what respect? Solar MPPTs, Inverters, battery chargers? What are you looking at?

[truckcab79]

All of the above to be honest as I’m learning and planning for my new to me boat fit-out.  
 

First work will be to re-wire engine bay and decide what I need / what I can fit in terms of battery pack.  Then I’ll be planning the remainder which will include solar. I will definitely want an inverter but am rapidly being convinced that I’ll use 12v for 99% of the time and just have mains as an added bonus so don’t need huge capacity unless it’s relatively inexpensive. 
 

Inverter being a good example.  2,000w Victron an arm and a leg.  Off-brand about £250.  
 

In particular on forums (not necessarily this one)  I know there’s a tendency to pile on and spread drama about off-brand ‘Chinese’ products that will burn your house down, but  in reality everyone is quietly buying them and using them without issue.  Be good to know the reality.  

[Puffling]

You won't need a 2000W inverter unless you are running a mains voltage fridge or a washing machine.

 

I've got a Victron battery charger, which also powers my 12v stuff on the rare occasion I use shore power in a marina. My solar controller is an EPever Tracer AN (60A). I'm very happy with it and it's a popular alternative brand with boaters. Not really 'off brand'.

[truckcab79]

Cheers.  I’ll have a look at those.  
 

incidentally 2000w wasn’t meant to be an actual example of what I need just an example of the  disparity in pricing.  
 

I suspect 500w will be enough which even in Victron isn’t that expensive anyway. 

[Momac]

I have a Victron battery charger which I bought in 2021.

I thought the price quite reasonable.

 

[nicknorman]

1 hour ago, truckcab79 said:

All of the above to be honest as I’m learning and planning for my new to me boat fit-out.  
 

First work will be to re-wire engine bay and decide what I need / what I can fit in terms of battery pack.  Then I’ll be planning the remainder which will include solar. I will definitely want an inverter but am rapidly being convinced that I’ll use 12v for 99% of the time and just have mains as an added bonus so don’t need huge capacity unless it’s relatively inexpensive. 
 

Inverter being a good example.  2,000w Victron an arm and a leg.  Off-brand about £250.  
 

In particular on forums (not necessarily this one)  I know there’s a tendency to pile on and spread drama about off-brand ‘Chinese’ products that will burn your house down, but  in reality everyone is quietly buying them and using them without issue.  Be good to know the reality.  

 

I used to be a Mastervolt fan, and we still have Mastervolt kit. But if it died I’d go for Victron for a few reasons. The kit seems well built and is reliable. They have a lot of “open source” information which allows connectivity with other stuff. Their Apps and Bluetooth connectivity are pretty good. They have a good concept of an overall system as opposed to individual items, eg their Venus Gx /Cerbus GX systems. No other manufacturer offers all that.

 

But it depends on what you want. In my caravan I have a stand alone sunshine solar inverter. It is quite good really, and cheap. But if you want a Combi inverter charger, battery monitor, solar controller etc all talking to each other and to an App, Victron has cornered the market.

 

As to the going on fire thing, hard to quantify but some cheap Chinese stuff is fine, some other cheap Chinese stuff is dangerous, hard to know which is which and that is the problem.

[Francis Herne]

Victron lead by a mile in system integration and documenting their products. Detailed manuals and guides on how to fulfil any given purpose. Everything is configurable, every configuration option is thoroughly described. Nothing else comes close there.

 

Mastervolt and Sterling are the other 'name' brands I see commonly. Reliable products, no frills, do what it says on the datasheet. Good support and warranties.

Outback are supposed to be similar from what I've heard but seem less common.

 

Renogy is fairly new, spending heavily on advertising. They clearly want to compete with Victron but my impression is the technical side doesn't back it up. Reliability from what I've heard ok within specs, but the specs can be stupid (e.g. a solar controller with 25V max PV input that will burn out if almost any modern panel is connected; even my ancient 20A Epever is rated for 100V). Documentation is patchy, support is reportedly hopeless.

 

Epever make cheap and bulletproof solar controllers. The tracking algorithm can be frustrating in some weather conditions though. They now make inverters but I don't know if those are good.

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Francis Herne

[rusty69]

I have recently started making the switch to victron stuff. Its early days, but seems much better than some of the other hardware I have had in the past . As said above, the integration alone and ability to remotely access it via the Victron OS makes it a real bonus in today's modern world. 

 

Be wary when buying inverters. Not all are NE bonded. Some of the Renogy ones, for instance, are not. 

 

Other brands I have heard that are reliable, are

 

Tracer, epever, morningstar, makeskyblue, xantrex, sunshine solar,midnite. 

Edited September 25, 2023 by rusty69

[PeterF]

My previous boat which I self installed a lot of kit I had a Sterling mains battery charger, no name 2000W inverter from Photonic Universe, Epever Tracer MPPT and for monitoring a voltmeter and shunt plus ammeter. It all worked well and nothing caught fire. The only minor niggle was the Epever Traver which sometimes did not track max power st times, which is a known issue if the panels are high voltage low current in series, would have been better in parallel.

 

My current boat was a new build in 2021 and for this I have the full Victron system with central Cerbo GX. The build quality is high, the performance is excellent and as someone who reads the manuals well documented and easily understood. The integration and ventral control is brilliant, the measures of battery voltage, charge current and temperature taken by the battery monitor are shared with the inverter/charger, MPPT and any other interested charging device. Remote data recording to the Victron cloud can be set up for no cost so you can check on system performance which is great for downloading.

[Francis Herne]

1 hour ago, rusty69 said:

Tracer, epever, morningstar, makeskyblue, xantrex, sunshine solar,midnite.

Tracer is an Epever product line unless I've missed something else.

 

Genuine MakeSkyBlue solar controllers are supposedly reliable except the fan (although I'm skeptical - the connectors are under-rated and the whole thing looks shoddily built), but a lot of the ones on the market are knockoff clones that don't last long at all.

 

My friend's 4000W Sunshine Solar inverter has been reliable and runs everything. He inquired about parts support/maintainability before purchasing and got good answers from the manufacturer.

[MtB]

2 hours ago, rusty69 said:

Other brands I have heard that are reliable, are

 

Tracer, epever, morningstar, makeskyblue, xantrex, sunshine solar,midnite. 

 

 

Point of Order:

 

My Sunshine Solar inverters have a rocker switch to neutral-bond, or to not-bond. Its easily switched from one to the other by mistake, especially as it looks the same as a the on/off switch (IIRC). 

 

 

[rusty69]

13 minutes ago, Francis Herne said:

Tracer is an Epever product line unless I've missed something else

They are also branded

branded as outback. Though I am sure the quality of the larger 60A and 80A outback products are far superior. 

5 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

Point of Order:

 

My Sunshine Solar inverters have a rocker switch to neutral-bond, or to not-bond. Its easily switched from one to the other by mistake, especially as it looks the same as a the on/off switch (IIRC). 

 

 

It was a general statement regarding other products I had heard were OK, not necessarily a comment relating to NE bonding. 

17 minutes ago, Francis Herne said:

My friend's 4000W Sunshine Solar inverter has been reliable and runs everything. He inquired about parts support/maintainability before purchasing and got good answers from the manufacturer.

Good point. My original mppt fan failed (not msb). The next one I had included a massive heat sink no fan. I guess the inclusion of a fan is a cost cutting initiative best avoided unless a supply of replacement fans are available. 

Edited September 25, 2023 by rusty69

[MtB]

27 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

It was a general statement regarding other products I had heard were OK, not necessarily a comment relating to NE bonding.

 

I was commenting not because you need to know in particular, but because people reading the thread and choosing an inverter might like to know. 

 

 

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I was commenting not because you need to know in particular, but because people reading the thread and choosing an inverter might like to know. 

 

 

Fair enough. I was only commenting on your comment cos I'm bored and have nothing else to do. 

[MtB]

10 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Fair enough. I was only commenting on your comment cos I'm bored and have nothing else to do. 

 

Have you considered getting a boat? They take up loads of time, so I hear.

 

Oh, hang on...

 

 

[cuthound]

My 16 year old boat boat was fitted with a Victron Combi and a Victron charger for the BT battery.

 

Both have performed faultlessly over that time. Enough said.

 

Furthermore unlike any of the other "marine" brands, Victron make power equipment for professional telecomms companies, so have a pedigree where reliability is paramount.

 

 

[IanD]

7 minutes ago, cuthound said:

My 16 year old boat boat was fitted with a Victron Combi and a Victron charger for the BT battery.

 

Both have performed faultlessly over that time. Enough said.

 

Furthermore unlike any of the other "marine" brands, Victron make power equipment for professional telecomms companies, so have a pedigree where reliability is paramount.

 

 

Probably Victron's biggest asset is not the hardware -- which is pretty good, but so are some others -- but the software/support and remote monitoring, which often makes it possible to remotely diagnose and debug problems, both with official help from Victron but also a huge community of knowledgeable users. They've also publicly committed on numerous occasions that VRM will remain free to users, and I can't see why they'd change this because it's one of their biggest selling points.

 

They also have the benefit of having *huge* amounts of hardware out there -- tens of thousands of units of popular items, a lot of it in big "professional" installations -- to be able to find any design/manufacturing problems, regularly upgrade both hardware and software, and sell and support products over long lifetimes rather than just bringing out new models for the sake of it.

Edited September 25, 2023 by IanD

[Jen-in-Wellies]

17 minutes ago, cuthound said:

My 16 year old boat boat was fitted with a Victron Combi and a Victron charger for the BT battery.

 

Both have performed faultlessly over that time. Enough said.

 

Furthermore unlike any of the other "marine" brands, Victron make power equipment for professional telecomms companies, so have a pedigree where reliability is paramount.

 

 

Shush, they'll hear you!

Cue load bang, magic blue smoke etc...

[rusty69]

22 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Shush, they'll hear you!

Cue load bang, magic blue smoke etc...

It's not just any magic blue smoke you know. It's Marks and Spencer  Victron magic blue smoke.

Edited September 25, 2023 by rusty69

[magnetman]

Victron is good stuff. 

 

They also do very good AGM batteries but you do pay! 

 

I don't like Sterling. Not used them but just a vibe thing. 

 

Dometic make some interesting smaller inverters. 

 

 

 

 

When I bought my big solar panels I was advised to get Victron controllers by the bloke selling the panels and when I asked if he could sell me one he said he didn't sell them. 

 

He was into off grid things and reckons that Victron actually is the best consumer grade product. 

 

 

[Kris9128]

Can't really comment on other makes as this is my 1st ever boat but it is running a vetus 3000w inverter, solar with a few Sterling bits in the mix. 

Seems to be coping fine ( now it's set up correctly) with my power hungry office. The only addition I've made is a remote control panel so I can turn it on/off etc from my desk. 

[robtheplod]

over the years of having the boat i've gradually replaced what was on the boat with victron. works great and the monitoring is excellent - it all talks to each other so you get a good picture of the state of play......

[magnetman]

1 minute ago, robtheplod said:

 it all talks to each other so you get a good picture of the state of play......

One hopes it talks in a quiet voice respecting the occupants right to enjoy the peace. 

 

 

[jonathanA]

my boat came with a sterling 1800W MSW inverter, it runs pretty much anything i've thrown at it, with the exception of  electric toothbrush charger which it fried.  I subsequently bought a sterling charger. both seem perfectly fine been working for over 10 yrs now. 

 

I have a modest 250W solar panel (all I could fit on ) and seller recommended the victron controller with blue tooth.  which I've been very impressed with and wasn't that much extra over other makes.   I'd definitely recommend the victron blue solar stuff and based on that if/when I decide to upgrade or replace the charger/inverted i'd seriously consider victron for all the reasons mentioned. 

 

to answer the OP something like the sterling 1800W MSW inverter i have is probably a reasonable mid market/mid performance unit at reasonable cost.