Victron - The only choice.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

43 minutes ago, magnetman said:

One hopes it talks in a quiet voice respecting the occupants right to enjoy the peace. 

 

 

If you are of a paranoid disposition, you'll be wondering what they are talking about so quietly.

[magnetman]

I imagine they could have quite a long and varied discussion about charging rates and voltages for Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries and the benefits and disbenefits thereof for use in narrow boats. 

 

 

[truckcab79]

Rather than start another topic I’ll continue here.  
 

Im veering toward Renogy given the largely positive reviews, our minimal usage and value for money.  
 

Actual manufacturer aside I’ve got a possibly daft question. Many of the inverters have 3 pin sockets as an output.  I’m assuming that in all cases you can also connect them to cables to supply your sockets in the boat?  The instruction manuals I’ve seen on line don’t seem to mention this. I can’t believe you’re meant to just plug in like a glorified extension lead. Or are you?  Seems a bit Heath Robinson.  
 

So question is. If they have sockets do they also have a ‘hard-wired’ output you’re able to use?  

Edited December 27, 2023 by truckcab79

[DaveP]

6 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

Actual manufacturer aside I’ve got a possibly daft question. Many of the inverters have 3 pin sockets as an output.  I’m assuming that in all cases you can also connect them to cables to supply your sockets in the boat?  The instruction manuals I’ve seen on line don’t seem to mention this. I can’t believe you’re meant to just plug in like a glorified extension lead. Or are you?  Seems a bit Heath Robinson.  
 

Done like this so the actual input to the boat mains circuit (generally a 16A fixed male plug) can't be energised both by the inverter and a shoreline/generator.

Edited December 27, 2023 by DaveP
Missing word

[Thames Bhaji]

4 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

So question is. If they have sockets do they also have a ‘hard-wired’ output you’re able to use?  

I think if an inverter has a 13a socket then a) this would be the only way to connect to it and b) its output would be limited to 13a anyway (or a multiple of 13a depending on how many sockets in it). 

[rusty69]

57 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

Rather than start another topic I’ll continue here.  
 

Im veering toward Renogy given the largely positive reviews, our minimal usage and value for money.  
 

Actual manufacturer aside I’ve got a possibly daft question. Many of the inverters have 3 pin sockets as an output.  I’m assuming that in all cases you can also connect them to cables to supply your sockets in the boat?  The instruction manuals I’ve seen on line don’t seem to mention this. I can’t believe you’re meant to just plug in like a glorified extension lead. Or are you?  Seems a bit Heath Robinson.  
 

So question is. If they have sockets do they also have a ‘hard-wired’ output you’re able to use?  

Bear in mind, particularly with Renogy the neutral-earth bonding may not be achievable. I may have mentioned it up thread. 

[MtB]

On 25/09/2023 at 14:57, Jen-in-Wellies said:

If you are of a paranoid disposition, you'll be wondering what they are talking about so quietly.

 

My psychiatrist told me I was paranoid.

 

Well ok, he didn't actually say so, but I could tell that's what he was thinking.

 

 

[truckcab79]

Bit more research needed I think.  Need to know what manuals I can find online are the most current.  There do indeed seem to be versions with and without a wired output.  Equally some manuals contain info on grounding and some not. 🙄

[Jen-in-Wellies]

11 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

Bit more research needed I think.  Need to know what manuals I can find online are the most current.  There do indeed seem to be versions with and without a wired output.  Equally some manuals contain info on grounding and some not. 🙄

If you are buying a new gadget, then the manuals from the manufacturers web site will be for the current version. https://uk.renogy.com have these, if you search around on the appropriate product page. Any other source of manuals and you are in to the "are these current?" problem.

[Willonaboat]

I've used Mastervolt, Sterling and Victron stuff in the past. When it came to the new boat there was only one choice: Victron. Because they produce almost everything you may need to put a system together, the products are well-specified, can commuincate with each other and the information displayed on Cerbo screens, apps or online. The manuals are usually comprehensive and well-written and the Victron Community forums are useful for answering queries if you have any. Victron's software is also opensource which means it's possible to amend for particular requirements if you need to. There is also reliability, which I think is about as good as it gets. In short, Victron could be thought of as the Rolls-Royce of marine and off-grid electrical products. That comes at a price but you do seem to get what you pay for.

 

The only area I don't think Victron score on is batteries. They seem to me to be expensive in a competitve market with lots of other choices.

 

[magnetman]

Don't know about the lithium batteries but I bought a Victron AGM 7Ah block 12v battery about 10 yars ago and despite discharging and general abuse leaving it outside in winter etc its still a good battery. Seems very good quality. 

 

I put a bigger version on the trawler to start the engines although have since acquired some 15v LTO modules which are even better for engine starting. 

 

 

The Victron LFP batteries do seem very expensive .

[truckcab79]

Think I’m erring toward the Renogy. 2000w inverter charger. Just £395 delivered and seem to be very well regarded for the price.  For the limited amount of time we’ll probably ever need 240v it seems like a good compromise.  Though I don’t doubt Victron is better quality.  Still got plenty of time to change my mind. I’m way off fitting it.  Would like to start gathering stuff to help plan space through.

Edited December 28, 2023 by truckcab79

[IanD]

31 minutes ago, Willonaboat said:

I've used Mastervolt, Sterling and Victron stuff in the past. When it came to the new boat there was only one choice: Victron. Because they produce almost everything you may need to put a system together, the products are well-specified, can commuincate with each other and the information displayed on Cerbo screens, apps or online. The manuals are usually comprehensive and well-written and the Victron Community forums are useful for answering queries if you have any. Victron's software is also opensource which means it's possible to amend for particular requirements if you need to. There is also reliability, which I think is about as good as it gets. In short, Victron could be thought of as the Rolls-Royce of marine and off-grid electrical products. That comes at a price but you do seem to get what you pay for.

 

The only area I don't think Victron score on is batteries. They seem to me to be expensive in a competitve market with lots of other choices.

 

 

Many builders (including mine) use all Victron kit except for batteries/BMS, there are plenty of these which are good quality and supported by Victron and are considerably cheaper than Victron, especially for large battery banks. Going for an even cheaper but unsupported BMS/battery is not recommended, for obvious reasons... 😉

 

Having remote access/monitoring/debugging via VRM (which is free, and will remain so) might sound like a "techie toy" feature but can be genuinely useful if there are any problems, either on the boat or off it -- apart from sorting out teething troubles, being able to see what the heating (and everything else onboard) was doing (e.g. frost protection) when away from the boat is reassuring, and also being able to tell the marina that the shoreside power had failed -- they were doing some work and it had accidentally been tripped/disconnected. Then there are convenient features like being able to turn the heating on before you get to the boat, or running the generator once a month or so, and knowing there are no water leaks by being able to see tank levels.

 

There's also a lot of useful information and knowledge on the forums, questions are usually answered pretty quickly be people who know what they're talkng about.

 

It's certainly not the cheapest kit around but it is good, and makes sense on a new boat because the extra cost is small compared to the total. For retrofitting the cost might be more of an obstacle for people with a restricted budget...

Edited December 28, 2023 by IanD

[rusty69]

15 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Don't know about the lithium batteries but I bought a Victron AGM 7Ah block 12v battery about 10 yars ago and despite discharging and general abuse leaving it outside in winter etc its still a good battery. Seems very good quality. 

 

I put a bigger version on the trawler to start the engines although have since acquired some 15v LTO modules which are even better for engine starting. 

 

 

The Victron LFP batteries do seem very expensive .

Pray tell squire, would you happen to know what cells victron are currently using in their LiFePO4 batteries? I know in the past they used Winston/Thundersky, as I believe Mastervolt did. 

[magnetman]

11 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Pray tell squire, would you happen to know what cells victron are currently using in their LiFePO4 batteries? I know in the past they used Winston/Thundersky, as I believe Mastervolt did. 

I don't know. 

 

Maybe they upgraded

[Higgs]

1 hour ago, truckcab79 said:

Think I’m erring toward the Renogy. 2000w inverter charger. Just £395 delivered and seem to be very well regarded for the price.  For the limited amount of time we’ll probably ever need 240v it seems like a good compromise.  Though I don’t doubt Victron is better quality.  Still got plenty of time to change my mind. I’m way off fitting it.  Would like to start gathering stuff to help plan space through.

 

I have a Renogy 2000w inverter, charge controllers and solar panels. I also have a Victron 3kw inverter, but decided to get the Renogy one , because the Victron was too bloody heavy for the space. The Victron was intended for a reinforced bulkhead position, but didn't have the time to fit it, in that place, at the time I needed an inverter. 

 

The Renogy equipment has been doing its job. Nothing too fancy. Will run washing machine. I do have a backup Champion 2kw inverter generator.

 

 

[truckcab79]

38 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

I have a Renogy 2000w inverter, charge controllers and solar panels. I also have a Victron 3kw inverter, but decided to get the Renogy one , because the Victron was too bloody heavy for the space. The Victron was intended for a reinforced bulkhead position, but didn't have the time to fit it, in that place, at the time I needed an inverter. 

 

The Renogy equipment has been doing its job. Nothing too fancy. Will run washing machine. I do have a backup Champion 2kw inverter generator.

 

 

Cheers for that.  I have a champion generator also as it happens. Haven’t read anything negative about the Renogy though mostly in van and camper forums.  Pretty sure I’ll go for that. 

47 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

I have a Renogy 2000w inverter, charge controllers and solar panels. I also have a Victron 3kw inverter, but decided to get the Renogy one , because the Victron was too bloody heavy for the space. The Victron was intended for a reinforced bulkhead position, but didn't have the time to fit it, in that place, at the time I needed an inverter. 

 

The Renogy equipment has been doing its job. Nothing too fancy. Will run washing machine. I do have a backup Champion 2kw inverter generator.

 

 

How do you have it grounded / bonded or is it floating as I believe it’s referred?     So much contradictory info online about this. 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

36 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

 

How do you have it grounded / bonded or is it floating as I believe it’s referred?     So much contradictory info online about this. 

You could always try asking Renogy! Pretty radical, I know. They also have a customer Discord group. Some one will probably know.

I'm guessing it is Neutral to Earth bonding that you are referring to. Usual practice in the UK at the point that the voltage is converted, or generated, but other countries do other things. Some inverters allow it, Victron for example. Cheap Chinese no-name ones may release their magic smoke if this is tried. Renogy, I've no idea!

[truckcab79]

7 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

You could always try asking Renogy! Pretty radical, I know. They also have a customer Discord group. Some one will probably know.

I'm guessing it is Neutral to Earth bonding that you are referring to. Usual practice in the UK at the point that the voltage is converted, or generated, but other countries do other things. Some inverters allow it, Victron for example. Cheap Chinese no-name ones may release their magic smoke if this is tried. Renogy, I've no idea!

Cheers. Although the products do, Renogy technical advice and service doesn’t have particularly good reviews from what I’ve read so I was asking someone who owns one and may have actually done this. I presume you haven’t so I’d rather not rely on you guessing to be honest.   
 

 

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Just now, truckcab79 said:

Cheers. Although the products do, Renogy technical advice and service doesn’t have particularly good reviews from what I’ve read so I was asking someone who owns one and may have actually done this. I presume you haven’t so I’d rather not rely on you guessing to be honest.   
 

 

 

That's why I suggested the Renogy specific customer group as a good place to ask, if CWDF can't come up with an answer you are happy to trust not to trash your shiny new inverter.

You're right, I don't own one. Blue boxes for me.

[truckcab79]

2 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

That's why I suggested the Renogy specific customer group as a good place to ask, if CWDF can't come up with an answer you are happy to trust not to trash your shiny new inverter.

You're right, I don't own one. Blue boxes for me.

Cheers. I’ve joined the group. Will try there.    To be honest the CWDF doesn’t come up with answers to much I’ve asked so far I’m afraid.   Lots of opinions but very little real knowledge on most topics as far as I can see. Very few hands-on folk on here I fear. Unusual for a hobby and enthusiasts forum. They’re normally knee deep in a broad range of solid advice in my experience of others.  I think most on here just pay someone else to do the thinking.  

[Jen-in-Wellies]

4 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

Cheers. I’ve joined the group. Will try there.    To be honest the CWDF doesn’t come up with answers to much I’ve asked so far I’m afraid.   Lots of opinions but very little real knowledge on most topics as far as I can see. Very few hands-on folk on here I fear. Unusual for a hobby and enthusiasts forum. They’re normally knee deep in a broad range of solid advice in my experience of others.  I think most on here just pay someone else to do the thinking.  

Alternatively, their thinking has lead them to a different conclusion on what to do to you, hence the lack of direct experience on the particular pieces of kit you are asking about. You are asking a relatively small percentage of the total CWDF membership that are familiar with boat technology in depth. For many of those it will have been years since they made certain decisions and gained experience on a particular item. Newer models they won't know about, since their current set up works fine.

[truckcab79]

1 minute ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Alternatively, their thinking has lead them to a different conclusion on what to do to you, hence the lack of direct experience on the particular pieces of kit you are asking about.

I was talking more generally. Not many ‘doers’ on here, but you could well be right. 
All the best. 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Just now, truckcab79 said:

I was talking more generally. Not many ‘doers’ on here, but you could well be right. 
All the best. 

You too. Would be interested to hear how useful the Renogy specific user group is.

[rusty69]

1 hour ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

You could always try asking Renogy! Pretty radical, I know. They also have a customer Discord group. Some one will probably know.

I'm guessing it is Neutral to Earth bonding that you are referring to. Usual practice in the UK at the point that the voltage is converted, or generated, but other countries do other things. Some inverters allow it, Victron for example. Cheap Chinese no-name ones may release their magic smoke if this is tried. Renogy, I've no idea!

Exactly what I did regarding an inverter I was looking at for someone.Renogy told me that the one I was asking about could not be neutral-earth bonded. I have tried to tell the OP this twice now in this thread, but it has, alas fallen on deaf ears. 

 

Perhaps he is looking for a doer that has done more than just ask the question of the manufacturers. 

 

Who else would one ask, but the supplier or manufacturer for a reliable answer. 

Edited December 28, 2023 by rusty69