Beta Tug engine

[magnetman]

Are these Beta Tug engines a bit smokey? I've always had a bit of a thing about smokey engines with top exhausts and for some reason in my head these ones, and Gardner 4LK, often seem to be more smokey than other units. 

 

Maybe not but I think I'd like to see the engine at operating temperature and have a look what its like. 

 

I think it was the BD (Ford same as Lister CRK3) not the JD (John Deere) which was smokey. 

 

Not sure and I suppose these things vary but I remember thinking it was odd that a modern new engine would be so smokey. I'm going back to the late 90s when I say new. 

 

 

 

[MtB]

7 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Are these Beta Tug engines a bit smokey?

 

Sort of. My BD3 visibly smoked slightly but worse, the smell of the exhaust was quite different from other diesels and I found it really unpleasant. I was glad to get rid of it and fit the very clean Kelvin.

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

5 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Are these Beta Tug engines a bit smokey? I've always had a bit of a thing about smokey engines with top exhausts and for some reason in my head these ones, and Gardner 4LK, often seem to be more smokey than other units. 

 

Maybe not but I think I'd like to see the engine at operating temperature and have a look what its like. 

 

I think it was the BD (Ford same as Lister CRK3) not the JD (John Deere) which was smokey. 

 

Not sure and I suppose these things vary but I remember thinking it was odd that a modern new engine would be so smokey. I'm going back to the late 90s when I say new. 

 

 

 

 

Remember that because of a lack of swirl in the cylinder at low speeds, any direct injection diesel engine is likely to have a tendency to smoke at tickover and possibly at canal speeds. I think all the engines mentioned are direct injection, and it is the tendency to smoke at low speed that encouraged the development of indirect injection systems. I suspect that modern common rail ecu controlled engines would be better smoke wise that the older mechanical/hydraulic injection systems

[IanD]

23 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Remember that because of a lack of swirl in the cylinder at low speeds, any direct injection diesel engine is likely to have a tendency to smoke at tickover and possibly at canal speeds. I think all the engines mentioned are direct injection, and it is the tendency to smoke at low speed that encouraged the development of indirect injection systems. I suspect that modern common rail ecu controlled engines would be better smoke wise that the older mechanical/hydraulic injection systems

 

Modern common-rail DI diesels are *far* less smoky than older DI (or even IDI) diesels for lots of reasons, however they're also a lot more complicated and expensive and difficult to do DIY maintenance on and need clean fuel -- so not popular with boaters...

[nealeST]

22 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Sort of. My BD3 visibly smoked slightly but worse, the smell of the exhaust was quite different from other diesels and I found it really unpleasant. I was glad to get rid of it and fit the very clean Kelvin.

 

 

Now that’s interesting because I was going to ask which is better between the two and I see it’s probably down to smoke. Learn a lot from these replies…

and another thing, people are scared of Kelvins? There is a nice RW Evans tug out there for sale for quite sometime now. I love it but it seems people very unsure about Kelvins….well at least compared to everything else you have to wait a long time if you decide to sell?

[Jen-in-Wellies]

2 minutes ago, nealeST said:

and another thing, people are scared of Kelvins? There is a nice RW Evans tug out there for sale for quite sometime now. I love it but it seems people very unsure about Kelvins….

Kelvins are easy to change. Subtract 273 from the price and you've got a Centigrade engine. 😀

[magnetman]

I think Beta Marine set the tickover too low. 

 

I had a Russell Newbery DM2 for 12 yars and did endless boating with it and even at tickover it never smoked as much as some much more modern designs. It was a true medium speed diesel where the BD3 and JD3 appear to be high speed diesels. 

 

 

[MtB]

44 minutes ago, magnetman said:

It was a true medium speed diesel where the BD3 and JD3 appear to be high speed diesels. 

 

When I first got the BD3 boat I had the engine serviced by a tractor bod. He was most interested in it, saying in a tractor they are 65hp engines (or thereabouts) which rev to 3 or 4,000rpm and tickover at about 800 (IIRC). He was most amused at how slow mine was configured to run, with the red line at something like 1500rpm. 

[Tonka]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

I think Beta Marine set the tickover too low. 

 

I had a Russell Newbery DM2 for 12 yars and did endless boating with it and even at tickover it never smoked as much as some much more modern designs. It was a true medium speed diesel where the BD3 and JD3 appear to be high speed diesels. 

 

 

It was the Listsr Crk3 which had the tickover problem. The Beta one was slightly different and didn't have the problem I believe

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

I think Beta Marine set the tickover too low. 

 

I had a Russell Newbery DM2 for 12 yars and did endless boating with it and even at tickover it never smoked as much as some much more modern designs. It was a true medium speed diesel where the BD3 and JD3 appear to be high speed diesels.

The whole reason for the existence of the BD3/CRK3/JD3 was to provide a new engine which had similar chacteristics to slow running vintage diesel engines. So both Lister and Beta went looking for an engine model still in production which could run (or be adapted to run) at vintage engine speeds. Since even the older designs of modern engine run at higher speeds than the vintage lumps, they had to reduce both tickover and maximum speeds to get the desired engine note. And this does put them outside of the operating range envisaged by the original engine designers.

[noddyboater]

1 hour ago, nealeST said:

Now that’s interesting because I was going to ask which is better between the two and I see it’s probably down to smoke. Learn a lot from these replies…

and another thing, people are scared of Kelvins? There is a nice RW Evans tug out there for sale for quite sometime now. I love it but it seems people very unsure about Kelvins….well at least compared to everything else you have to wait a long time if you decide to sell?

RW Evans.. Might be why it hasn't sold.

Reminds me of a bloke once telling me he had a Steve Davis tug.

[magnetman]

14 minutes ago, noddyboater said:

RW Evans.. Might be why it hasn't sold.

Reminds me of a bloke once telling me he had a Steve Davis tug.

 

Maybe it was made by the ex BW CEO. 

 

 

[Mike Tee]

https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/rw-davis-62-traditional-for-sale/738482

 

It is a nice boat - been for sale for a while but has now come down to a more realistic price (but only in my opinion!)

We bought Jasper from this chap - no huge surprises, got what we expected so reasonably happy with the experience.

Jasper has a BD3 but with hydraulic drive, so headroom in the backcabin is 6' plus, but a huge drop if you miss the step coming in. Doesn't smoke and stops a 70' heavy boat in a very short distance. (My boat, not the one we hit).

[MtB]

There is also the CONWAY for sale at Norbury, with much the same engine but in Lister CRK guise this time.

 

A handsome boat and at £36k, quite a bargain I recon. Cheap I guess because part of the interior appears to need fitting out.

 

https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/stenson-53-tug-for-sale/739458

 

 

[Mike Hurley]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

There is also the CONWAY for sale at Norbury, with much the same engine but in Lister CRK guise this time.

 

A handsome boat and at £36k, quite a bargain I recon. Cheap I guess because part of the interior appears to need fitting out.

 

https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/stenson-53-tug-for-sale/739458

 

 

Someone else thought so too, sale agreed.

[ditchcrawler]

9 hours ago, magnetman said:

Are these Beta Tug engines a bit smokey? I've always had a bit of a thing about smokey engines with top exhausts and for some reason in my head these ones, and Gardner 4LK, often seem to be more smokey than other units. 

 

Maybe not but I think I'd like to see the engine at operating temperature and have a look what its like. 

 

I think it was the BD (Ford same as Lister CRK3) not the JD (John Deere) which was smokey. 

 

Not sure and I suppose these things vary but I remember thinking it was odd that a modern new engine would be so smokey. I'm going back to the late 90s when I say new. 

 

 

 

A bit, but I have seen a lot worse, its worse if you leave it dong nothing like charging batteries, if its working its not to bad at all.

[Tonka]

@Leap of faithare you still stuck in Rufus 3

[blackrose]

On 24/08/2023 at 14:49, Leap of faith said:

Also would canal and river trust be able to get it going if needed e.g would they have spares/parts?

 

C&RT don't usually carry spare parts for people's boats or get involved in fixing their broken down engines. Some would argue that they should given the high costs of boat licencing these days, but it's not really within their remit. River Canal Rescue (RCR) might be able to help with a breakdown - or possibly not as some members have reported.

[ditchcrawler]

39 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

 . River Canal Rescue (RCR) might be able to help with a breakdown - or possibly not as some members have reported.

[Tonka]

4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Doesn't state it was done by RCR

[haggis]

18 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Doesn't state it was done by RCR

it does in the comments

[john.k]

Maybe he was a  qualified liar ,not an unqualified mechanic.

[Tonka]

41 minutes ago, haggis said:

it does in the comments

But they are not visible in what @ditchcrawlerput on here

[ditchcrawler]

On 24/08/2023 at 14:21, Leap of faith said:

Yes it is Rufus....

Was it you who bought it?

[Tonka]

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Was it you who bought it?

has it gone under offer then