Energy Bills Support Scheme Alternative Funding

[magnetman]

The welfare state is there to protect the rich by taking money from ordinary people and giving it to the poor and feckless so the latter don't present a threat to the rich. 

 

 

[Tonka]

29 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

How do they not pay for a 13Kg Calor gas, being parasites do they just steel it from boats with a home mooring?

If they are genuine CCers and move, not a problem, if their non-home mooring licence goes up they will pay. Not all are parasites as you say and I very much doubt you will say that to their faces.

You seem to want your cake and eat it. 

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

3 minutes ago, alias said:

 

Yes I agree on that point hence my comment. There is a difference though, in one other key aspect.

 

With an election or vote there's an assumption that the results will be acted upon, based on the rules of the electoral system. Consultations generally have no such rules.

I think everyone knew what I was talking about, especially the ones that received it and completed it.

 

Just now, Tonka said:

You seem to want your cake and eat it. 

I have a home mooring and don't claim anything, I’m not a CCer or CMer. As I said I doubt you would call CCers parasites to their faces😂😂

[alias]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Do you seriously think that any boater thinks that CART would put out a consultation like this -- which would not have been cheap to do! -- without having the intention of acting on the result?

 

I could also point out that under FPTP many GE votes have no effect on the result at all, and governments are certainly not bound in any way to deliver on their election promises... 😞

 

I am sure they will make changes following the consultation. The opinions expressed may influence what they do, or they may already have a fixed view about some aspects of the changes. 

 

Have you never seen examples, perhaps in a work context, of (expensive) consultations being part of a strategy to introduce unpalatable change that might be expected to meet with resistance?

[Tonka]

1 hour ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

I think everyone knew what I was talking about, especially the ones that received it and completed it.

 

I have a home mooring and don't claim anything, I’m not a CCer or CMer. As I said I doubt you would call CCers parasites to their faces😂😂

Threatening me with violence will not make me change my mind

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

53 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Threatening me with violence will not make me change my mind

Who’s threatening you with violence? All I’m saying is you would not call a CCer a parasite to his face, would you, it’s alright saying things on here calling people parasites, but in real life you wouldn’t go and call them it to their face. So please don’t try turning your remark about you calling CCers parasites, like all boaters there’s the ones that spoil it for the others, just like in all walks of life.

Edited August 23, 2023 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[Tonka]

1 hour ago, alias said:

 

I am sure they will make changes following the consultation. The opinions expressed may influence what they do, or they may already have a fixed view about some aspects of the changes. 

 

Have you never seen examples, perhaps in a work context, of (expensive) consultations being part of a strategy to introduce unpalatable change that might be expected to meet with resistance?

Yes British Airways spent a lot of money consulting with their workforce about stopping the defined benefit pension scheme. Shortly after they stopped it and when the unions complained the company said "you were all consulted"

[magnetman]

I imagine I'm not the only one waiting with bated breath to see how badly the CRT are going to clobber innocent boaters. 

Will they go full Draco?

[wandering snail]

2 hours ago, Hudds Lad said:

Sod's Law says it will be before Dec 1st when our licence is due  

CRT will announce the details from the licence review September or latest, October. The licence increase will be announced in November after the Bank of England announces its interest rate. 

[Tonka]

Just now, wandering snail said:

CRT will announce the details from the licence review September or latest, October. The licence increase will be announced in November after the Bank of England announces its interest rate. 

That statement implies the announcement is dependent on the interest rate announcement.

I don't think it has anything to do with it. 

[wandering snail]

7 minutes ago, Tonka said:

That statement implies the announcement is dependent on the interest rate announcement.

I don't think it has anything to do with it. 

Please ask Matthew Symonds for clarification as it was he who said it.

[IanD]

2 hours ago, alias said:

 

I am sure they will make changes following the consultation. The opinions expressed may influence what they do, or they may already have a fixed view about some aspects of the changes. 

 

Have you never seen examples, perhaps in a work context, of (expensive) consultations being part of a strategy to introduce unpalatable change that might be expected to meet with resistance?

Yes, and I think that's what CART are doing because most boaters don't want to pay higher license fees, and would also rather everyone paid more than just their particular subsection (CCers, widebeams...).

 

I think it's obvious from the consultation what measures CART are considering, because they're all mentioned in the questions. So long as they can raise more revenue I doubt they have any agenda about the "best" or "fairest" way to do it, their easiest option will be to base the increases on the results so that they can say "these are the increases that boaters told us they wanted" -- or to be more accurate, the ones that they dislike the least... 😉

[Arthur Marshall]

4 hours ago, magnetman said:

The welfare state is there to protect the rich by taking money from ordinary people and giving it to the poor and feckless so the latter don't present a threat to the rich. 

 

 

That's what the law in general is for. Strangely, you don't see many poverty stricken judges or politicians.

4 hours ago, IanD said:

 

Do you seriously think that any boater thinks that CART would put out a consultation like this -- which would not have been cheap to do! -- without having the intention of acting on the result? For a start, it would let them say "but this is what boaters said they wanted" when making changes to the license fee, avoiding accusations of being dictatorial and ignoring boater's wishes which they are so often accused of by some... 😉

 

I could also point out that under FPTP many GE votes have no effect on the result at all, and governments are certainly not bound in any way to deliver on their election promises... 😞

Well, I do. I've been subjected to a lot of consultations in my time, and, whatever the result, it's always apparent that any action taken had been decided long before the consultation even began. About the only one that didn't follow the pattern was Brexit, and look at the chaos and panic in high places that resulted.

[alias]

2 hours ago, IanD said:

So long as they can raise more revenue I doubt they have any agenda about the "best" or "fairest" way to do it, their easiest option will be to base the increases on the results so that they can say "these are the increases that boaters told us they wanted" -- or to be more accurate, the ones that they dislike the least.

 

Sure, revenue is their most pressing issue, but they do have other problems to solve. If they see an opportunity to have an impact on some of their other problems at the same time through the way they allocate increased costs (in the categories that the consultation identified) to different groups of boaters, why wouldn't they take it?

[LadyG]

7 hours ago, IanD said:

 

Do you seriously think that any boater thinks that CART would put out a consultation like this -- which would not have been cheap to do! -- without having the intention of acting on the result? For a start, it would let them say "but this is what boaters said they wanted" when making changes to the license fee, avoiding accusations of being dictatorial and ignoring boater's wishes which they are so often accused of by some... 😉

 

I could also point out that under FPTP many GE votes have no effect on the result at all, and governments are certainly not bound in any way to deliver on their election promises... 😞

When our LA appointed a Director of EH who had no qualification, but had been successful with his budget, by underpaying staff and bullying those who objected. He was in charge of bins .

The CEO had to get rid of him as his track record was so bad, shall we say, sexual bullying and worse,  so the KPMG did a survey, cost a mere £50K, this was 1995, they were able to say the department would be better if he was sacked, so another £250K of ratepayers cash went his way, redundancy. 

 

I've just had an email purporting to be from a firm of solicitors apologising for a delay in my ppi claim.

What is a ppi claim and do i ignore or delete or unsubscribe?

Edited August 23, 2023 by LadyG

[haggis]

17 minutes ago, LadyG said:

When our LA appointed a Director of EH who had no qualification, but had been successful with his budget, by underpaying staff and bullying those who objected. He was in charge of bins .

The CEO had to get rid of him as his track record was so bad, shall we say, sexual bullying and worse,  so the KPMG did a survey, cost a mere £50K, this was 1995, they were able to say the department would be better if he was sacked, so another £250K of ratepayers cash went his way, redundancy. 

 

I've just had an email purporting to be from a firm of solicitors apologising for a delay in my ppi claim.

What is ppi claim and dovi ignore or delete or unsubscribe?

Delete ! If you unsubscribe it tells " them "  that they have hit on a valid email address and they will keep bombarding you with emails trying to get more info on you

 

[Tonka]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

When our LA appointed a Director of EH who had no qualification, but had been successful with his budget, by underpaying staff and bullying those who objected. He was in charge of bins .

The CEO had to get rid of him as his track record was so bad, shall we say, sexual bullying and worse,  so the KPMG did a survey, cost a mere £50K, this was 1995, they were able to say the department would be better if he was sacked, so another £250K of ratepayers cash went his way, redundancy. 

 

I've just had an email purporting to be from a firm of solicitors apologising for a delay in my ppi claim.

What is a ppi claim and do i ignore or delete or unsubscribe?

it is what you get if you pea in the swimming pool

[ditchcrawler]

13 hours ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

I don't know why people are discussing Council Tax for CCers, nothing to do with the Govt Allowance, how can any person think they could charge CCers and a system can be put in place for it to work? It’s so far fetched it’s fantasy.

A bit like deciding who is a live aboard CCer and who is a boater that lives in a house and just moves his boat around every 14 days, often known as dumpers

[magnetman]

The energy grant payment thing is handy to pull a few people out of the woodwork. I wonder how many cc ers are actually going to fall for this. 

 

 

 

 

[Ronaldo47]

A year or so PC (Pre-Covid) , Northern Rail did a pointless public consultation about the type of seats for their prospective new trains, by providing a stand at busy stations with three different types of seat that the public could try, and then vote for which one they preferred.  The design ulitimately chosen was the one that received absolutely no votes. It was of course the cheapest design, which has been described as like fabric-covered ironing boards.

[MtB]

10 hours ago, magnetman said:

The energy grant payment thing is handy to pull a few people out of the woodwork. I wonder how many cc ers are actually going to fall for this. 

 

Indeed. And as happens with the landlord deposit protection scheme, all the data collected on the tenancies is supplied the the HMRC so they can check each landlord is declaring the rental income from each tenancy. If fact I often think this is the primary reason for the scheme, nothing to do with 'protecting' tenant security deposits.

 

The fuel payment scheme may well pass the whole lot over to HMRC so they can have a good trawl through it to see who is claiming the benefit but not filling in a tax return. 

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

11 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

A bit like deciding who is a live aboard CCer and who is a boater that lives in a house and just moves his boat around every 14 days, often known as dumpers

Seen a lot of dumpers this year, mostly Little GRP cruisers. 

[Arthur Marshall]

3 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Indeed. And as happens with the landlord deposit protection scheme, all the data collected on the tenancies is supplied the the HMRC so they can check each landlord is declaring the rental income from each tenancy. If fact I often think this is the primary reason for the scheme, nothing to do with 'protecting' tenant security deposits.

 

The fuel payment scheme may well pass the whole lot over to HMRC so they can have a good trawl through it to see who is claiming the benefit but not filling in a tax return. 

Not sure why claiming the benefit would need a tax return? Not that many people do returns any more.

What I can see as a problem would be that, if as someone has said, there is a check that the "household " has not already had a payment, this must be linked to a postal address, not a name. So anyone who uses a family or friend's postal address would be disqualified, which surely must be most cruisers? Otherwise, how do they get mail?

[TheBiscuits]

6 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Otherwise, how do they get mail?

 

Boat mail, so that address will be being investigated for fraud as it's had hundreds of claims! 

 

[HenryFreeman]

Well, I've just got my voucher. See you at the pub!

 

(I'm using the pub central heating as an alternative energy source)

Edited September 7, 2023 by HenryFreeman