Jiggle Syphon

[Steve Manc]

Hi

 

At the end of this cruising season I am looking at emptying my water tank. Normally I use the water pump. This year I am carrying out maintenance on the inside of the tank. To save the water pump I thought I would try a jiggle Syphon and hose. I have just tried to empty a building (14lts ) bucket of water as a test.

Sadly there was very little movement/transfer of water.

 

Does anyone use a jiggle Syphon and is there a technique to using them?

 

Thanks in advance 

[TheBiscuits]

Just now, Steve Manc said:

Does anyone use a jiggle Syphon and is there a technique to using them?

 

Yes and yes.

 

To Syphon anything you need the outlet below the inlet on the pipe, so you may struggle with a built in water tank.

 

Last time I did mine I moored above a lock and syphoned down into the empty chamber.  An under bridge, aqueduct or embankment would work too, just use your usual hose and suck until it's flowing.  Not recommended for diesel ... hence the jiggler to get it started.  Just shake the marble up and down until flow begins.

 

 

[springy]

Jiggle It ! Seriously though remember its a "syphon" so the end of the outlet pipe MUST be below the pick-up point. Put your bucket on a table and let the end of the hose lie on the floor and try again, jiggling the  pipe up and down in the bucket.

 

beaten by The Biscuits

 

springy

[Steve Manc]

Thanks

 

[Slim]

34 minutes ago, Steve Manc said:

Hi

 

At the end of this cruising season I am looking at emptying my water tank. Normally I use the water pump. This year I am carrying out maintenance on the inside of the tank. To save the water pump I thought I would try a jiggle Syphon and hose. I have just tried to empty a building (14lts ) bucket of water as a test.

Sadly there was very little movement/transfer of water.

 

Does anyone use a jiggle Syphon and is there a technique to using them?

 

Thanks in advance 

I doubt it will work. The bulk of the water tank is below water level with the bottom of it, say 15" + , below. Even if you get the syphon to start you will have to submerge the outlet to that depth towards the end of emptying. At that depth the outflow will have to overcome a pressure of ,say 24". No chance.

A cheap 12 v E bay pump is only a few quid. Look for a fish pond / water feature one.

[Tracy D'arth]

Wet vac.

[ditchcrawler]

I was at a boat show where they were being sold and the lady selling them said you could use them to empty the bilge 

[blackrose]

2 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

To Syphon anything you need the outlet below the inlet on the pipe, so you may struggle with a built in water tank.

 

I thought the whole point of the juggle syphon was that you didn't necessarily need the outlet below the inlet and could syphon "uphill" as long as you jiggled? Probably a slow process though.

 

The other thing about trying to syphon from a water tank is how are you going to make sure the hose stays at the bottom of the tank?

Edited July 11, 2023 by blackrose

[David Schweizer]

Have you considered one of these:-  £5.95 from ebay

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2023 by David Schweizer

[blackrose]

13 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I was at a boat show where they were being sold and the lady selling them said you could use them to empty the bilge 

 

I've drawn diesel out the tank with mine and I was syphoning "uphill" so it is possible.

[Tracy D'arth]

Wet vac.

 

Syphon, the clue is in the word. Outlet has to be below the inlet and at a low pressure. The jiggle is just to avoid you having to suck.

Do folk no longer know the basics of syphons? What do they teach in schools these days?

1 minute ago, blackrose said:

 

I've drawn diesel out the tank with mine and I was syphoning "uphill" so it is possible.

I do not believe you! It goes against the laws of nature.

[blackrose]

5 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

The jiggle is just to avoid you having to suck.

Do folk no longer know the basics of syphons? What do they teach in schools these days?

 

I'm not sure what they teach. If the jiggle avoids one having to suck then why wouldn't it continue to work if you keep jiggling? As I said, it worked for me.

5 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Wet vac.

 

Yes, if the OP is doing some tank maintenance then they will need to take the tank hatch lid off anyway providing access for a wet vac hose which will get everything out very easily.

Edited July 11, 2023 by blackrose

[Tracy D'arth]

4 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

I'm not sure what they teach. If the jiggle avoids one having to suck then why wouldn't it continue to work if you keep jiggling? As I said, it worked for me.

 

Yes, if the OP is doing some tank maintenance then they will need to take the tank hatch lid off anyway providing access for a wet vac hose which will get everything out very easily.

If you have to keep jiggling all the time, its not working as a syphon but as an impulse pump, a different animal all together.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Er, obvious question. Why can't the OP turn on a tap in the boat and let the boats water pump pump the water in to a sink and out through a skin fitting? I've done this on several occasions and the pump was fine. Didn't get hot and flustered, or anything. Turn off the pump when the tank is empty. I know he says he doesn't want to do that, but there is no reason why not.

[jonathanA]

48 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Er, obvious question. Why can't the OP turn on a tap in the boat and let the boats water pump pump the water in to a sink and out through a skin fitting? I've done this on several occasions and the pump was fine. Didn't get hot and flustered, or anything. Turn off the pump when the tank is empty. I know he says he doesn't want to do that, but there is no reason why not.

Because they are so bloody slow.... for a start and I don't think they are designed for 100% duty cycle. I just use an old spare bilge pump empties mine in a few minutes. Then use the dry vac for the final dregs and gunge. 

[dmr]

There is something very satisfying about making a syphon, its almost magic, but unless you can use a really thick hose and get a good height difference they are really slow.

The rubber bulb devices are a good and easy way to start the syphon but these contain a valve which will further limit the flow.  Do you have a long hose and are you anywhere near that big aqueduct with the funny name? 😀

[Peugeot 106]

Your water pump is probably rated intermittent so just run it for a few minutes and then let it cool down before using it again. If it’s in a locker make sure air can get at it or  better still point a cold fan at it. Just be patient and make sure it doesn’t get too

hot!

 

[ditchcrawler]

3 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Wet vac.

 

Syphon, the clue is in the word. Outlet has to be below the inlet and at a low pressure. The jiggle is just to avoid you having to suck.

Do folk no longer know the basics of syphons? What do they teach in schools these days?

I do not believe you! It goes against the laws of nature.

Thank you.

[dmr]

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Thank you.

 

Syphon uphill with a jiggle valve or whatever, let the water run back down through a little turbine, perpetual motion, infinite energy, global warming fixed. 😀

[Ronaldo47]

At the time we were taught about the syphon in physics at school (circa 1960),  we were living in an upstairs flat in a Victorian terrace in East London. No bathroom, so on bathnight, dad had to carry the tin bath upstairs to the kitchen. Filling was no problem using a short length hose on the Ascot gas water heater, but emptying involved (me!) baleing out using a large saucepan. I thought I would try using the (1/2") garden hose fed out of the window to the outside drain as a syphon. With around 10' of head, it worked like a dream, and no more baleing for me!  

Edited July 11, 2023 by Ronaldo47
typo

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Unfortunately, according to the XKCD comic, since the latest bug fix to the physics of the universe, syphons no longer work. Or perhaps it is just American siphons and British syphons are still fine.

 

License

[Peugeot 106]

When I was in my 30s a mate and I used to knock about the Irish Sea in a 26’ wooden yacht (SCOD). It used to leak so we used to leave a bilge pump with the discharge hose over the side when we moored it.  One day another mate left the hose in the water. The pump pumped the water out and then it siphoned back in until the battery went flat…..We arrived when there was 3” of freeboard and luckily the fire service had a big pump. The worst was all the expensive charts were ruined along with the soft furnishings. Luckily the sails were ok. We had a petrol 6hp Vire which leaked oil into the bilges and the oil had covered everything. All over the cabin walls. There was an oil tidemark. A half empty bottle of Shirley Bassey floated by….. 

 

[ditchcrawler]

7 hours ago, Peugeot 106 said:

When I was in my 30s a mate and I used to knock about the Irish Sea in a 26’ wooden yacht (SCOD). It used to leak so we used to leave a bilge pump with the discharge hose over the side when we moored it.  One day another mate left the hose in the water. The pump pumped the water out and then it siphoned back in until the battery went flat…..We arrived when there was 3” of freeboard and luckily the fire service had a big pump. The worst was all the expensive charts were ruined along with the soft furnishings. Luckily the sails were ok. We had a petrol 6hp Vire which leaked oil into the bilges and the oil had covered everything. All over the cabin walls. There was an oil tidemark. A half empty bottle of Shirley Bassey floated by….. 

 

I have known that to happen to an ex working boat

[Peugeot 106]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

I have known that to happen to an ex working boat

Best to remember a siphon is not ALWAYS your friend!

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, Peugeot 106 said:

Best to remember a siphon is not ALWAYS your friend!

Certainly not when the water level outside a boat is well above the floor level inside a boat...