Electric boat for sale

[robtheplod]

'hybrid' is the worst of both worlds, especially cars....

[matty40s]

1 hour ago, robtheplod said:

'hybrid' is the worst of both worlds, especially cars....

My 2012 1.6 diesel mondeo can get almost 70 mpg if I drive sensibly, I can also get about 750 miles worth of fuel in the tank.

Kathy's 2020 Toyota CHR runs at about 40 ish mpg and she can get about 340 miles in the tank.

Progress??

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, robtheplod said:

'hybrid' is the worst of both worlds, especially cars....

But for boats (other than those that return to base every night) it's the only practical way to do any 'electric' boating.

[Peanut]

⁶

17 hours ago, magnetman said:

Parallel hybrid wants to be Very Well Executed or you will get problems. 

 

The boat is going to end up being a diesel boat. 

 

Series hybrid where the prime mover connected to the propeller is an electric motor, is better. 

 

So the original post was about parallel v hybrid, not no electric drive at all. Just the way it is executed.

 

[davidg]

15 minutes ago, David Mack said:

But for boats (other than those that return to base every night) it's the only practical way to do any 'electric' boating.

Not if one can use….

(Drum roll)

 

The PowerBoat

 

https://www.facebook.com/100056765809653/posts/pfbid04DLJ5KWkU5o2EqpG5VPhyBaiBpcfAyLaWhVGDyyhXv3kmzcPcFKihB3z3T7YynyFl/

 

Sorry, couldn’t resist.

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, davidg said:

Not if one can use….

(Drum roll)

 

The PowerBoat

 

https://www.facebook.com/100056765809653/posts/pfbid04DLJ5KWkU5o2EqpG5VPhyBaiBpcfAyLaWhVGDyyhXv3kmzcPcFKihB3z3T7YynyFl/

 

Sorry, couldn’t resist.

 

 

And the date is was published isn't at all significant

[ditchcrawler]

7 hours ago, Athy said:

 

The boat from Orton Marine (whom I haven't heard of) may have sold, but for how much?

 

Don't they claim to be one of the leading electric powered narrowboat builders Ortomarine - Quality Builder of Electric Narrowboats 

[Guest]

Video from them : -

 

 

 

[enigmatic]

11 hours ago, IanD said:

 

No, they've gone up. Remember that's the *extra* cost over a diesel -- but does include a high-power 30Vac supply and big LFP battery bank "free"... 😉

They don't all design their own rudder  

[IanD]

23 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 Yes I was wondering if Athy might misunderstand and take your £40k figure as total build cost!

 

But LFP batteries have tumbled in price the last couple of years surely? 

 

 

LFP prices haven't changed much in the last couple of years...

 

And a parallel hybrid with LA batteries (like the boat on sale) will  cost less than a series hybrid with LFP batteries -- when I looked a couple of years ago the added cost was less than £20k, probably higher now like everything else... 😞

Edited April 8, 2023 by IanD

[Athy]

On 07/04/2023 at 11:21, MtB said:

 

You appear to be discussing a different boat now.

 

The boat under discussion was built with an integrated dies engine and electric drive and massive big bank of batteries. All at an additional cost of £40k according to IanD. 

 

So it never had a "perfectly serviceable dies engine in it already"

 

No, same boat, Waterhorse, whose advertising blurb says that it has a Beta 43  diesel as well as electric power. If it's not serviceable, what's it doing in the boat?

[Paul C]

38 minutes ago, Athy said:

No, same boat, Waterhorse, whose advertising blurb says that it has a Beta 43  diesel as well as electric power. If it's not serviceable, what's it doing in the boat?

 

Athy did you take my advice and do a bit of reading around on the topic? If you did, you'd either not need to ask this question, or not comprehend how a parallel hybrid works, or indeed what a "hybrid" is as distinct from an "electric".

[MtB]

56 minutes ago, Athy said:

No, same boat, Waterhorse, whose advertising blurb says that it has a Beta 43  diesel as well as electric power. If it's not serviceable, what's it doing in the boat?

 

It's charging the batteries.

 

 

[Tonka]

1 hour ago, Athy said:

No, same boat, Waterhorse, whose advertising blurb says that it has a Beta 43  diesel as well as electric power. If it's not serviceable, what's it doing in the boat?

ballast

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Tonka said:

ballast

 

No, that's what the batteries are for...

 

 

(Let's hope Poe's Law doesn't strike again!)

[magnetman]

Parallel hybrid 

 

Diesel Engine connected to gearbox connected to propeller. Add a motor/generator downstream of the gearbox. This motor is capable of turning the propeller or can be used as a generator if the Diesel engine is running. Diesel can charge batteries as well as directly propel the boat. Seems ideal...

 

Series hybrid.

 

Electric motor connected to propeller. Add a diesel engine in a remote location. Diesel charges batteries but does not directly propel the boat as it is physically disconnected from the propeller. 

 

Arguments for both systems but the parallel does need to have very good engineering and attention to detail about separating diesel and electric. 

 

Series seems to me, as a casual uneducated observer, to be the wiser choice. 

 

Edited April 8, 2023 by magnetman
Edit to remove racist sex references

[roland elsdon]

The engine is to warm the environment while charging the less than one hundred percent efficient batteries.

Then the batteries will warm the electric drive train ( and themselves) while ( at less than 100% efficency) driving the less than 100 efficent electric motors through gently warm cables.

 

The owner will be gently warmed by the hum of greenwarming  sorry greenwashing brought about by the term hybrid.

 

Hybrid only works if you can plug it in to a green source to charge frequently.

in the absence of that its just a way of making fossil fuels less efficient.

 

Unlike my hb2 which warms the cabin and turns carbon into lots of noise while its running.

[MtB]

9 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Parallel hybrid 

 

Diesel Engine connected to gearbox connected to propeller. Add a motor/generator downstream of the gearbox. This motor is capable of turning the propeller or can be used as a generator if the Diesel engine is running. Diesel can charge batteries as well as directly propel the boat. Seems ideal...

 

But Shirley... If used as a generator like wot u describe, the propeller turns as well. 

 

So you'll also need a clutch to disengage the blade when charging moored up. Yet more mechanical complexity and expense.

 

 

[Athy]

31 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

It's charging the batteries.

 

 

Precisely. It is obviously, therefore, serviceable. If the boat had no batteries, the Beta 43, being a provenly reliable and widely-used diesel engine, would be able to propel the boat all on its ownsome. So why encumber it with electric gadgetry and sting customers for another forty thou?

[MtB]

5 minutes ago, Athy said:

Precisely. It is obviously, therefore, serviceable. If the boat had no batteries, the Beta 43, being a provenly reliable and widely-used diesel engine, would be able to propel the boat all on its ownsome. So why encumber it with electric gadgetry and sting customers for another forty thou?

 

You really don't understand do you? At first I thought you were just being perverse. 

 

It's so the boat has "electric drive" which confers upon the owner 10% discount from the license fee and bragging rights in the pub.

 

Obvious now, innit?

 

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

You really don't understand do you? At first I thought you were just being perverse. 

 

It's so the boat has "electric drive" which confers upon the owner 10% discount from the license fee and bragging rights in the pub.

 

Obvious now, innit?

 

 

 

 

 

Lets make it simple ..........

 

Engine runs a generator

Generator charges batteries

Batteries power an electric motor

Electric motor turns the prop shaft

Prop shaft rotates the propellor.

[David Mack]

19 minutes ago, MtB said:

It's so the boat has "electric drive" which confers upon the owner 10% discount from the license fee and bragging rights in the pub.

Would take a lot of years for that 10% discount to cover the extra capital cost, and bragging rights don't pay bills...

[magnetman]

I thought the electric boat discount was for electric boats. 

38 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

But Shirley... If used as a generator like wot u describe, the propeller turns as well. 

 

So you'll also need a clutch to disengage the blade when charging moored up. Yet more mechanical complexity and expense.

 

 

This is why parallel hybrid is dodgy which is what I said. 

[Alway Swilby]

31 minutes ago, Athy said:

Precisely. It is obviously, therefore, serviceable. If the boat had no batteries, the Beta 43, being a provenly reliable and widely-used diesel engine, would be able to propel the boat all on its ownsome. So why encumber it with electric gadgetry and sting customers for another forty thou?

They do come in useful when doing a flight of locks. You can switch off the engine and use the nice quiet electric drive as you work your way through the locks. You can also, if you wish, turn the prop slower than if it was driven by the engine at idle speed. Once you are out of the lock flight and cruising on the level you can use the dies engine to propel the boat and charge the batteries.

[Paul C]

31 minutes ago, Athy said:

 So why encumber it with electric gadgetry and sting customers for another forty thou?

 

A diesel engine is more efficient at higher power than lower power. So with proper management, it can run 1) more efficiently, 2) when the boater chooses it to, instead of its being required to run when propulsion is needed.

 

Of course, 1) needs the additional consideration of, is it more efficient to run the engine (efficiently) but then have the losses from charging, then discharging, batteries together with the losses of an electric motor (which aren't that much). And 2) might be "when the batteries need charging and/or hot water is needed" than simply when the boater chooses to, if the battery bank becomes depleted for example.

 

That's a hybrid.

 

If it were to be able to plug in, its the car equivalent of a "plug in hybrid" and that requirement to run the diesel may be mitigated to less and less; or indeed never - for example if you plugged in A LOT and did very little boating (and had some alternate way to produce domestic hot water). At that point, it behaves like an electric boat with a small motor and a small (compared to a fully electric boat, but big compared to a conventional boat) battery bank.

 

Add solar and the 'plug in' mitigations are gifted, when its sunny.