Calor discontinuing some of their range

[Naughty Cal]

29 minutes ago, Paul C said:

I can't see too many people investing in Alan's dodgy hoses and flapping around with 47kg bottles. 

 

I CAN see an uptake in the safe, refillable bottles such as Safefill and Gaslow, at least for those with a car and not too far away from a local petrol station which has an LPG pump too (which aren't that common, after all). I dare say, with there being so few, the ones that do exist do a steady trade in it. There's still LPG cars and others eg RVs with fixed tanks etc.

So uncommon we have 5 within a 5 minute drive 🙄

[magnetman]

It is possible Calor are on a mission to save the planet by forcing people who use small gas appliances to re-think their strategies and reduce their carbon footprints. 

 

I'm not quite sure how one reduces ones foot print. Maybe cutting the toes off or taking a bit of the heel orf with an angle grinder would work. 

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Naughty Cal said:

So uncommon we have 5 within a 5 minute drive 🙄

 

 

And yet I keep a weather eye open for them and see about one a week, and I typically drive 500 miles a week. 

[Naughty Cal]

25 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I'll probably have a go with a 19Kg if it saves spending 300 quid on gas bottles every 10 years.

We are undecided if we will swap our bottles at 10 years. Gaslow rated theirs for 15 years before a regulatory change in 2014 I believe.

 

The bottles are still the same. 

 

We might need to change the filters but that is only £10.

[ditchcrawler]

49 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Was there an explosion?

 

No, but I am not sure if it was really done in a safe manor by weighing the cylinders so they weren't overfilled, just shaken. It was a caravan site and the hire of a van included gas, so it saved changing cylinders half way through the week .

 

[Naughty Cal]

Just now, MtB said:

 

 

And yet I keep a weather eye open for them and see about one a week, and I typically drive 500 miles a week. 

In 18 months we have never failed to find somewhere to refill enroute. 

 

Last place we used was a recently opened services at Darlington just off the A1.

 

Plenty of apps available to find places to refill.

[MtB]

Just now, ditchcrawler said:

No, but I am not sure if it was really done in a safe manor

 

Was it Terry and Arthur's manor? 

 

They used to keep it pretty safe, in their own sort of way  

[Naughty Cal]

3 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

And yet I keep a weather eye open for them and see about one a week, and I typically drive 500 miles a week. 

The most expensive round here is Woodhall services on the M1. Doesn't advertise it sells LPG. But it does. You could drive straight past and not notice.

[ditchcrawler]

36 minutes ago, Paul C said:

I can't see too many people investing in Alan's dodgy hoses and flapping around with 47kg bottles. 

 

I CAN see an uptake in the safe, refillable bottles such as Safefill and Gaslow, at least for those with a car and not too far away from a local petrol station which has an LPG pump too (which aren't that common, after all). I dare say, with there being so few, the ones that do exist do a steady trade in it. There's still LPG cars and others eg RVs with fixed tanks etc.

Several do 

[magnetman]

The overfilling thing is interesting. The more I think about it the more I become convinced that when my cooker issued liquid (and high pressure gas) from the hob ring it could have been related to an overfilled bottle. 

 

It was a 3.9 and I can't remember where I bought it but surely there is an incentive to do DIY filling for onward retail. People will do this. Not everyone will be aware of how dangerous it can be. I was actually moored near Slough at the time but can't recall exactly where I bought the refill bottle from. 

 

If I had matches at the time it could have been very serious. 

 

Care needed I think with DIY filling. 

 

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

The overfilling thing is interesting. The more I think about it the more I become convinced that when my cooker issued liquid (and high pressure gas) from the hob ring it could have been related to an overfilled bottle. 

 

It was a 3.9 and I can't remember where I bought it but surely there is an incentive to do DIY filling for onward retail. People will do this. Not everyone will be aware of how dangerous it can be. I was actually moored near Slough at the time but can't recall exactly where I bought the refill bottle from. 

 

If I had matches at the time it could have been very serious. 

 

Care needed I think with DIY filling. 

 

 

 

I too am intrigued about how this could happen. 

 

If the bottle valve has a dip tube on the inside, I can imagine it dipping into the liquid of an overfilled bottle. Was it a freshly connected bottle that did it? 

 

 

[magnetman]

Thinking back to it I believe it was a new bottle. It was also a new regulator. Bottle was upright so that wasn't the issue. 

[David Mack]

14 minutes ago, magnetman said:

but surely there is an incentive to do DIY filling for onward retail.

Not if you overfill the bottle and give the customer more gas than he has paid for.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Paul C said:

I can't see too many people investing in Alan's dodgy hoses and flapping around with 47kg bottles. 

 

How about 19kg cylinders, or even 13kg cylinders - do you think you could manage one of those ?

[BWM]

Unless taken to the extreme, the main issue with overfilling is that the cylinder will no longer emit gas at a useful level as the air space is necessary to allow the liquid to 'boil off' into a useful, pressurised vapour.

  I suspect that the cylinders of those sizes have reached the end of their life expectancy and the complexity of the design would be expensive to replace, given a reduced demand as the increasing price for a small cylinder becomes off putting. 

[magnetman]

3 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Not if you overfill the bottle and give the customer more gas than he has paid for.

 

The way I had figured it out was that someone with a large domestic LPG tank could be refilling small bottles for onward sale via boatyard or other outlet. This may be cheaper than using the Calor cartel. Some bottles may be overfilled as it is not heavily regulated. 

 

There seems to be an 80% rule about how much you can put into a bottle. Overfill and it won't be a big financial consideration but it seems like it could potentially be incredibly dangerous.

 

Maybe this is why calor are pulling the small bottles. risk aversion..

 

Just a theory. 

Whoever is filling the bottle it still says Calor on it. 

 

Above theory about old bottles being end of life is also an interesting one..

[MtB]

1 minute ago, BWM said:

Unless taken to the extreme, the main issue with overfilling is that the cylinder will no longer emit gas at a useful level as the air space is necessary to allow the liquid to 'boil off' into a useful, pressurised vapour.

 

 

I find myself wondering if there really IS a dip tube to a certain depth. This could allow Calor to overfill each bottle up to a test pressure for strength testing, then they draw off the overfilled liquid until the level drops to the point when vapour starts to show. Then the bottle is ready for resale.

 

Just a theory, but I bet it is close to the mark. 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

36 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

No, but I am not sure if it was really done in a safe manor by weighing the cylinders so they weren't overfilled, just shaken. It was a caravan site and the hire of a van included gas, so it saved changing cylinders half way through the week .

 

 

We tried that on the hire fleet for similar reasons, but in the end we fund so much liquid built up in the bottles it caused blocked pipe problems.

[magnetman]

 

4 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

I find myself wondering if there really IS a dip tube to a certain depth. This could allow Calor to overfill each bottle up to a test pressure for strength testing, then they draw off the overfilled liquid until the level drops to the point when vapour starts to show. Then the bottle is ready for resale.

 

Just a theory, but I bet it is close to the mark. 

 

 

I've got an old 3.9 bottle somewhere I found by a bin. Might have to unscrew the valve and see what's what. 

Have an idea that it might shear off. 

Or perhaps better to keep it intact as it will be worth more than rhino horn soon. 

[Jon57]

9 hours ago, M_JG said:

 

Safefill put a 10 year life expectancy on theirs. After which they say they should be replaced. Dont know about the others.

On mine it says needs to be tested. No mention of new bottle. Mind you I’ve had it 9yrs. Needs to be sent for a test this year. Will soon find out. The thing I like is you can just keep topping up the content of gas when it gets low. Don’t have to wait till empty. I also have 2 6kg calor bottles as emergency when out cruising. Even passed BSS with it in place so not a problem in that respect.(unless I change my examiner 👍) Gailley on the trent and Mersey there’s a lpg suppler independent as well as a she’ll garage next to the canal. You sometimes have to blag the petrol stations as they are not aware that they are totally safe.😜👍

[Momac]

25 minutes ago, BWM said:

 I suspect that the cylinders of those sizes have reached the end of their life expectancy and the complexity of the design would be expensive to replace, given a reduced demand as the increasing price for a small cylinder becomes off putting. 

Finding the smaller refills  seems to be an issue so there is no reduced demand . In fact there is probably increased demand  as holidaying and camping etc including boating is more popular than ever.

I think Calor simply find it is inefficient  to fill all the different small cylinders other than Campingaz  which they are probably required to do under contract. :Looks like the production line for a Campingaz 907 is no good for filling a Calor cylinder (see video below).

On the plus  side if the only small Butane is Campingaz it could moderate the retail cost  by simplifying production and delivery ,

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by MartynG

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Jon57 said:

On mine it says needs to be tested. No mention of new bottle. Mind you I’ve had it 9yrs. Needs to be sent for a test this year. Will soon find out. The thing I like is you can just keep topping up the content of gas when it gets low. Don’t have to wait till empty. I also have 2 6kg calor bottles as emergency when out cruising. Even passed BSS with it in place so not a problem in that respect.(unless I change my examiner 👍) Gailley on the trent and Mersey there’s a lpg suppler independent as well as a she’ll garage next to the canal. You sometimes have to blag the petrol stations as they are not aware that they are totally safe.😜👍

 

Possibly in the intervening nine years they have changed?

 

 

[Paul C]

30 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

How about 19kg cylinders, or even 13kg cylinders - do you think you could manage one of those ?

 

The problem with smaller bottles is, as the convenience/manhandling becomes easier, the relative cost per unit of gas increases, so the overall benefit remains roughly the same. I dare say some will try it off 19 or 13s but they will be the amateur at-home with the inverted bottle sitting on a garden wall/bench etc, seeking max economy and not bothering with scales to ensure not overfilling. Some others might invest a bit more effort into eg shelving or a stand or support for a 47, maybe lifting it with assistance onto it etc. Either way, just the hose wreaks of cost-cutting with little or no consideration of safety. That they're available on eBay etc, is remarkable but unsurprising.

 

The likes of Safefill are in a different league.

[Jon57]

1 minute ago, M_JG said:

 

Possibly in the intervening nine years they have changed?

 

 

Recommend. 👍

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Jon57 said:

Recommend. 👍

 

I guess its how risk adverse you are? But if there is indeed a way of getting them pressure tested and certified safe at 10 years you might indeed be OK.