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Calor discontinuing some of their range


Philip

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Just now, DandV said:

You can decant fill between bottles using gravity. It is slow as the descending liquid has to make way for the ascending gas to splutter past.

 

It is vital that you know the safe filled weight 80% of capacity of the receiving bottle and have the means to determine this.  And do it. A fully hydrauliced bottle is dangerous. 

The space above is to allow for the thermal expansion of the propane, (it has a high coefficient of expansion) and the large temperature range bottles in the sun can be subjected to. 

 

Not being funny but sometimes it pays to read a whole thread to grasp everything that might have been said previously. 

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Just really reinforcing the vitalness of doing it safely.

I was a designated bottle fill trainer for a major oil company and taught decant filling of small bottles.

 

Decant filling was potentially much more hazardous then the more automated pumped filling of the larger bottles,  especially to some of the more challenged people put up for training. I don't know the actual configuration of the UK bottles but here, the normal larger bottles. and bulk tanks were fitted with very small village valve with the take off just on the 80% level. A brief opening of this valve either released visibly clear gas, or vaporizing liquid. In the absence of the ability to weigh bulk tanks, and the inaccuracy of the float tank gauges this was how they were filled. It also simplified stock reconciliations as they were undertaken fill to fill with a reasonable assumption that the too filled level was the same in each case. 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, DandV said:

It is vital that you know the safe filled weight 80% of capacity of the receiving bottle and have the means to determine this.  And do it. A fully hydrauliced bottle is dangerous. 

 

 

As I stated right at the start of the thread.

 

You know that the cylinder nett weight of gas when full is 3.9kg.

So you take the empty weight (which is marked on the cylinder) and weigh the cylinder - if the cylinder is empty then the weight will be the same as the 'marked weight'.

 

You can fill 'part used' cylinders in exactly the same way - if the cylinder weighs (say) 1kg more than the marked nett weight, you know you can add up to 2.9Kg of gas.

 

I stand the cylinder on the scales and zero the scales.

Fill from the donor cylinder (which is inverted and above the receiving cylinder) until you get to 3.5kg - you can either stop here and have an even bigger safety margin, or slowly let the weight increase to 3.9kg and have the 'normal' safety margin.

 

If you are filling your own then it is so easy to do there is no need to squeeze in every last gram of gas.

I will normally fill to below the 'normal' nett weight.

 

To repeat what I said on page one of the thread :

 

Underfill rather than overfill !

 

  • Greenie 1
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You understand the process perfectly and have explained it well.

 

The reason there may be restrictions on who can do it, there are here in NZ, is that it requires some skills and considerable care to be undertaken safely.

Something that cannot be taken for granted unfortunately in the general population.

 

I once witnessed a trained and very experienced  liquid petroleum gas delivery driver  receiving liquid propane burns through a moments inattention.

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8 minutes ago, DandV said:

You understand the process perfectly and have explained it well.

 

The reason there may be restrictions on who can do it, there are here in NZ, is that it requires some skills and considerable care to be undertaken safely.

Something that cannot be taken for granted unfortunately in the general population.

 

I once witnessed a trained and very experienced  liquid petroleum gas delivery driver  receiving liquid propane burns through a moments inattention.

 

It also makes the decant much quicker if the receiving cylinder is cooler than the donor cylinder.

When doing the smaller Camping sized cartridges (100g - 500g) I'll put them in the freezer for a few minutes before the transfer. With bigger cylinders, standing in a bucket of cold water will be enough to speed up the decant.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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12 hours ago, Paul C said:

 

If you know the correct weight, then you would have a "nice full" (as in not overfull) bottle. It won't go bang but it may leak some vapour/liquid during the disconnecting after you've done the transfer (so it needs to be done in a well ventilated area with no ignition sources). If you didn't know the weight, or thought you knew it but were wrong, the bottle may become overfull then if/when it heats up, it could put liquid through your gas lines and into your appliances (and thus, into the boat). And it could 'blow' the pressure relief function and discharge flammable liquid/vapour into the gas locker, which should over time dissipate to the wider environment.

The gas to liquid ratio of propane is 270 to 1 or thereabouts.  If, somehow, an appreciable volume of lpg was let loose in a gas locker, it is liable to overwhelm the drain holes and exit from the locker lid.  Where it goes next is guesswork, but into the well deck and through the open doors is one possibility.

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3 minutes ago, Tacet said:

The gas to liquid ratio of propane is 270 to 1 or thereabouts.  If, somehow, an appreciable volume of lpg was let loose in a gas locker, it is liable to overwhelm the drain holes and exit from the locker lid.  Where it goes next is guesswork, but into the well deck and through the open doors is one possibility.


I know what you mean but I’m not sure in practice, it would overwhelm the drainage. It depends how it came to be in the gas locker. If it’s pressure relief from an overfull bottle due to temperature rise, I think that would be a seep or short burp, and the drain would cope fine.

 

Good point though.

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3 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Sorry again on Facebook, refilling a smaller cylinder Facebook

 

I'm not sure why everyone is so either surprised or 'anti' the process.

 

It is a common, (almost) everday action for many folk.

 

When hiking take a full cartridge (say) a 100g which is around enough for 2 or 3 days.

Use it for 2-days.

The next time you go out hiking do you leave it at home and take another new, full , one in which case you end up with dozens of part empty /part filled cartridges.

 

Simply buy a 500g cartridge and refill some of your part filled 100g cartridges.

Saves you the additional weight of carrying 2 or 3 part used cartridges.

 

 

 

 

A1.jpg

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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10 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It is a common, (almost) everday action for many folk.

It's going to be even more common soon. There must be thousands of small sailing boats (ours included) that will only take the 3.9 or 4.5 calor bottles. 

 

It's a very short sighted, and poor excuse that Calor have come out with. I hope someone plugs the gap to supply 'professionally' filled bottles of the same dimensions. 

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