Jump to content

Boat stolen called Ruby


Featured Posts

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Exactly, there is a well known 'stolen boats and equipment website' that very few bother to use.

 

I have no idea why.

 

Welcome to Stolen Boats

 

Folks seem to think a Police Incident Number means that they are likely to get their boat back, they do not seem to appreciate that the Police don't have the resources to do anything about it, and give you a number so you can tell your insurers 'its been reported as stolen'

 

If everyone registed their stolen boat HIN, then any buyers could check and see if it is stolen.

It would be a start.

 

The system could even be develped as a Boating Registration system, but if folks put as much effort into registering as they do to keeping paperwork it would be worthless

 

 

But is there any doubt here that the seller and the buyer are talking about the same craft, its just a matter of who actually owns it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

But is there any doubt here that the seller and the buyer are talking about the same craft, its just a matter of who actually owns it.

 

Yes, that wouldn't help.
I think a few days ago I said 

 

Both owners know where the boat is, the problem is no one knows who the real owner is.

Both claim to have evidence that it is theirs, one seems to be relying on the fact that C&RT licenced it in his name and a bank statement showing he paid £1000.

 

There could be a third finger-in-the-pie , who was it that hired the boat whilst it was up for sale ? Was it the buyer ?

Edited by Alan de Enfield
Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Exactly, there is a well known 'stolen boats and equipment website' that very few bother to use.

It is supported by both insurance companies and the Police.

 

I have no idea why it is not more widely used.

 

Welcome to Stolen Boats

 

Because the number of stolen boats a year on the canals can probably be counted on one set of hands.....and cases like the one highlighted at present show the fact that naivety and stupid decisions can lead to uncertain police decisions.

Scenario 1....not related to this Ruby thing..

One clever chap knows the canal network well, hes been scamming people for ages, knows that a signed bill of sale from previous owners is key.

Rents a boat off people who are short of cash or struggling to sell, or worried CRT are going to remove licence for non CC compliance, or just cant afford licence

 Tells them he will buy it and pay in instalments. He says " I cant licence it in my name without a bill of sale "(which isnt correct, but do owners know that), so they sign a bill of sale . Boat disappears....

  • Greenie 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Yes, that wouldn't help.
I think a few days ago I said 

 

Both owners know where the boat is, the problem is no one knows who the real owner is.

Both claim to have evidence that it is theirs, one seems to be relying on the fact that C&RT licenced it in his name and a bank statement showing he paid £1000.

 

There could be a third finger-in-the-pie , who was it that hired the boat whilst it was up for sale ? Was it the buyer ?

 

On balance it looks to me like this boat is stolen, though stolen from a very naive owner. The "thief" made a remarkably fast getaway in boating terms. The boat has been located so the "thief" is trying to conjure up some evidence that he is the genuine new owner. I would suggest that any reasonable bloke on an omnibus would conclude that £1000 is not a reasonable purchase price.

 

............Dave

  • Greenie 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, dmr said:

I would suggest that any reasonable bloke on an omnibus would conclude that £1000 is not a reasonable purchase price.

 

But is the boat worth the £42,000 it is claimed to have been sold for on another thread?

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Granger said:

Evening all, 

 

im the legal owner of the boat and confirmed this with Leicester police and officer Emma Holmes from the rural team on Wednesday. No criminal act has happened on my side I’ve been the victim of a potential scam but have the paperwork and licensing in place. Licensing was confirmed in the presence of the police and Nick the local licensing officer for the CRT. I have started civil proceedings against the previous owner so won’t obviously go in to to much detail, but I have been informed if they attempt to enter the boat or remove the boat they will be committing a crime. I understand people try and make there own minds up but it’s just muddying that waters and adding more to the file for the police to have to spend time investigating. 
 

I’d also agree there should be something more substantial regarding ownership along the lines of a vc5 etc 

 

You probably won't want to answer this but I'll ask anyway . How much did you pay for this boat and how much money is outstanding if any ?  

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, David Mack said:

 

But is the boat worth the £42,000 it is claimed to have been sold for on another thread?

The only figures quoted anywhere are that £1000 supposedly to reserve a sale, and £42000 the previous owner says they had spent on it. But they also say that they were getting rid of it because it wasn't up to standard, and appear to have parked it blocking a waterpoint for weeks, which doesn't imply a particularly careful or thoughtful owner. Me, I'd take both figures with considerable pinches of salt, and I don't think either party should throw figures about on here, because it's none of our business and there's no way of knowing if what we are told is true.

  • Greenie 2
  • Love 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Grassman said:

 

 

Are you using Paypal? If so then please be aware that I was nearly scammed in this way when I sold a van a few years ago. Hopefully they have tightened up on it by now so that it doesn't happen these days, but it would be prudent to check. If you are not then my experience might at least be useful to any others who are selling a large item this way.

 

I advertised the van on Autotrader and after no interest for a few days, I suddenly had an enquiry by email which quickly turned into a sale.

 

The buyer said he wasn't able to come and look at the van because he was housebound recovering from a serious operation but had seen enough from the photos to decide to buy it, and would arrange for a courier to collect it. There had been just one brief email asking if I would reduce the price, and I was surprised how they readily accepted my reduction of only £100 (on the original price of £8,950. As they were housebound I offered to deliver the van to them if they were within a reasonable distance and asked them whereabouts they lived, and was again surprised when I received no reply.

 

Then the money appeared in my Paypal account, but just as I was about to go ahead I  thought something didn't feel quite right. I Googled 'Paypal scams' which did indeed indicate that it was probably a scam.

 

Apparently, the buyer makes up and excuse as to why they cannot collect the item in person, such as being housebound, working abroad, or on the oil rigs etc. You see the money in your paypal account so you let the courier collect the item, and as soon as they are away with it they, contact Paypal to say that it is faulty, or not as advertised so Paypal tell them to return the item (which of course they don't) and they refund them the money.

 

Although the  money is showing as being in your account, Paypal won't have released those funds to you until the transaction is complete. So I could have ended up with no van and no money.

 

I emailed the so called buyer saying that I was withdrawing the sale because I believed it was a scam, and it showed it was a scam because I heard nothing back from them. Thank goodness my gut instinct stopped me going ahead. 

 

No. Bank transfer to a separate account to our day to day account and will then be transferred straight into a different savings account.

  • Greenie 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, matty40s said:

Scenario 1....not related to this Ruby thing..

One clever chap knows the canal network well, hes been scamming people for ages, knows that a signed bill of sale from previous owners is key.

Rents a boat off people who are short of cash or struggling to sell, or worried CRT are going to remove licence for non CC compliance, or just cant afford licence

 Tells them he will buy it and pay in instalments. He says " I cant licence it in my name without a bill of sale "(which isnt correct, but do owners know that), so they sign a bill of sale . Boat disappears....

Sounds potentially related to this Ruby thing to me...

 

13 hours ago, David Mack said:

 

But is the boat worth the £42,000 it is claimed to have been sold for on another thread?

Looks like a boat that might sell at that price in the current market to me. Definitely closer to that than a £1k boat.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 19/02/2021 at 21:21, dmr said:

 

On balance it looks to me like this boat is stolen, though stolen from a very naive owner. The "thief" made a remarkably fast getaway in boating terms. The boat has been located so the "thief" is trying to conjure up some evidence that he is the genuine new owner. I would suggest that any reasonable bloke on an omnibus would conclude that £1000 is not a reasonable purchase price.

 

............Dave

Have to love the how everyone is Sherlock Holmes in this matter. The police have said the boat belongs to the new owner that’s ME. I’ve revived messages of threats etc from the previous owner who has been informed he is not allowed to contact me or approached the boat. He has repeatedly broke the law and continues to try and contact me.I have not stolen a boat, he confirmed there is a contract in place, if he wishes to go via a civil case for breach of contract etc he’s welcome to but in almost 3 months he hasn’t and didn’t make any police report until I owned the boat for 2 months. The boat is licences and insured in my name. I have taken almost 3 months to move the boat to ins current location at most a 6 day journey if I wanted to move her fast, I don’t think 3 months is that fast really. I’m getting fed up of people making assumptions if the previous owner thought he had an argument for ownership why not come on here and say so he’s been invited and had told people on Facebook he would do. It’s pathetic that people think this kind of treatment is acceptable. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Having a licence and insurance in your name does not prove ownership of a boat.

Even being the registered owner on cart's database proves nothing.

If you really want to stop speculation then show us the bank details where you transferred the money to the previous owner😷

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Granger said:

Have to love the how everyone is Sherlock Holmes in this matter. The police have said the boat belongs to the new owner that’s ME. I’ve revived messages of threats etc from the previous owner who has been informed he is not allowed to contact me or approached the boat. He has repeatedly broke the law and continues to try and contact me.I have not stolen a boat, he confirmed there is a contract in place, if he wishes to go via a civil case for breach of contract etc he’s welcome to but in almost 3 months he hasn’t and didn’t make any police report until I owned the boat for 2 months. The boat is licences and insured in my name. I have taken almost 3 months to move the boat to ins current location at most a 6 day journey if I wanted to move her fast, I don’t think 3 months is that fast really. I’m getting fed up of people making assumptions if the previous owner thought he had an argument for ownership why not come on here and say so he’s been invited and had told people on Facebook he would do. It’s pathetic that people think this kind of treatment is acceptable. 

you dont need to prove anything to random people on internet... let people speculate...

  • Greenie 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Granger said:

Have to love the how everyone is Sherlock Holmes in this matter. The police have said the boat belongs to the new owner that’s ME. I’ve revived messages of threats etc from the previous owner who has been informed he is not allowed to contact me or approached the boat. He has repeatedly broke the law and continues to try and contact me.I have not stolen a boat, he confirmed there is a contract in place, if he wishes to go via a civil case for breach of contract etc he’s welcome to but in almost 3 months he hasn’t and didn’t make any police report until I owned the boat for 2 months. The boat is licences and insured in my name. I have taken almost 3 months to move the boat to ins current location at most a 6 day journey if I wanted to move her fast, I don’t think 3 months is that fast really. I’m getting fed up of people making assumptions if the previous owner thought he had an argument for ownership why not come on here and say so he’s been invited and had told people on Facebook he would do. It’s pathetic that people think this kind of treatment is acceptable. 

 

The police do not usually make judgements on ownership, that is almost certainly for a civil court to decide.

I have an open mind on this, so, tell me again...

Why did you need to get away so quickly that you navigated a river in flood?

Why did you need to paint over the name and registration number?

Did you really pay on;y £10,000 for a functional narrowboat?

Did you initially rent the boat before taking ownership?

 

I have insured a boat that is not in my name many times with no problems at all.

When I licence our boat I do not have to prove ownership and CRT have never asked for proof of ownership or sight of a bill of sale.

 

I want to believe you but it just does not feel quite right?

 

.................Dave

  • Greenie 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Granger said:

 The police have said the boat belongs to the new owner that’s ME.

I would be very surprised if the police have been as definitive as that. I think it much more likely that the police have concluded that there is insufficient evidence that a criminal offence has been committed, and so they will be taking no further action.

  • Greenie 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, Granger said:

The boat is licences and insured in my name.

That proves absolutely nothing. Anybody can licence and insure a boat whether they own it or not, albeit that they may be breaching the relevant terms and conditions.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, David Mack said:

That proves absolutely nothing. Anybody can licence and insure a boat whether they own it or not, albeit that they may be breaching the relevant terms and conditions.

 

I was under the impression that you cannot insure anything that you do not own, or, have a financial involvement with.

 

Whilst not 'boaty' this is one of the Q&As on compare the market.com website.

 

Can I get a buildings insurance policy if I don’t own the property?

Only the owner of a property can buy the buildings insurance. If you’re not the building owner but you’re worried about appropriate buildings insurance, you can check with the building’s proprietor or landlord to check this cover is in place. 

 

 

 

You may well be able to get insurance cover without declaring your interest, or lack of, but would they actually pay out ?

Link to post
Share on other sites

If I remember correctly, CRT do have to be notified when a boat changes hands, and the balance of the licence cost is then refunded to the previous owner. So a lot may depend here on who notified CRT. If the previous owner, no problem, they obviously were aware it was changing hands.  If the current owner, it may have been that  which let the previous one know that ownership was now being claimed, rather than the boat just being rented out (which of course it shouldn't have been, anyway), and brought this to a head.

The previous owner, if it's true that they dumped it on a waterpoint for weeks, didn't seem to be looking after it very well, and it now seems to be liked a lot, so I just hope it all gets sorted out without too much hassle.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I was under the impression that you cannot insure anything that you do not own, or, have a financial involvement with.

 

Whilst not 'boaty' this is one of the Q&As on compare the market.com website.

 

Can I get a buildings insurance policy if I don’t own the property?

Only the owner of a property can buy the buildings insurance. If you’re not the building owner but you’re worried about appropriate buildings insurance, you can check with the building’s proprietor or landlord to check this cover is in place. 

 

 

 

You may well be able to get insurance cover without declaring your interest, or lack of, but would they actually pay out ?

But if I ring my insurance company and tell them I have another boat they will happily insure it in my name, they wont want evidence that I own it. They may not pay out if I claim and they find I don't own it. 

I would suggest that the previous owners insurance company would assist if they think the boat they are insuring has been stolen, this is working on the basis the previous owner had it insured.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I was under the impression that you cannot insure anything that you do not own, or, have a financial involvement with.

 

Whilst not 'boaty' this is one of the Q&As on compare the market.com website.

 

Can I get a buildings insurance policy if I don’t own the property?

Only the owner of a property can buy the buildings insurance. If you’re not the building owner but you’re worried about appropriate buildings insurance, you can check with the building’s proprietor or landlord to check this cover is in place. 

 

 

 

You may well be able to get insurance cover without declaring your interest, or lack of, but would they actually pay out ?

I did say you might be in breach of the terms and conditions!

The insurance policy would not be effective and may well not pay out in the event of a claim. But the person taking out the insurance would have a piece of paper (or the digital equivalent) saying that the boat was insured in his name, and that would normally be sufficient to get a boat licence.

The point I was making was that anyone can get a piece of paper saying they have insured the boat. Whether or not it is a valid contract of insurance is another matter.

  • Greenie 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I was under the impression that you cannot insure anything that you do not own, or, have a financial involvement with.

 

Whilst not 'boaty' this is one of the Q&As on compare the market.com website.

 

Can I get a buildings insurance policy if I don’t own the property?

Only the owner of a property can buy the buildings insurance. If you’re not the building owner but you’re worried about appropriate buildings insurance, you can check with the building’s proprietor or landlord to check this cover is in place. 

 

 

 

You may well be able to get insurance cover without declaring your interest, or lack of, but would they actually pay out ?

I think you can insure a car that you don't own. A lot depends on the insurer. You only need 3rd party for a boat anyway, and how often do you have to claim on that?

Which is another point, obviously - if the original owner was insured, why don't they claim on that? I'd imagine most CC boats are fully comp.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Arthur Marshall said:

 

Which is another point, obviously - if the original owner was insured, why don't they claim on that? I'd imagine most CC boats are fully comp.

Claim for what? Theft? As soon as the insurers find out that there is some sort of contract for sale in place and that some money has been paid, they will say this is not a theft, but a contractual dispute.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, David Mack said:

I did say you might be in breach of the terms and conditions!

The insurance policy would not be effective and may well not pay out in the event of a claim. But the person taking out the insurance would have a piece of paper (or the digital equivalent) saying that the boat was insured in his name, and that would normally be sufficient to get a boat licence.

The point I was making was that anyone can get a piece of paper saying they have insured the boat. Whether or not it is a valid contract of insurance is another matter.

 

 

I was agreeing with you.

 

Yes, the person claiming to be the owner would have a 'piece of paper' which would allow them to licence the boat.

Obvioulsy if the insurance was found to be fraudulent then the boat licence would be revoked as well.

Link to post
Share on other sites

My head is spinning reading this convoluted story 8n its various guises, to the point where I don't know who did what, where, when, what could have, or should have, or actually has happened and whether it was legal, whether the coppers are on the case or trying to keep out of it, or who the good guys and bad guys are, or even who the main protagonist is and where my sympathies should lie! :wacko:

 

I'm think I'm going to have to wait for the movie to come out and hope the screenwriter shortens the saga and makes it easier to understand! 

  • Greenie 2
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.