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Boat stolen called Ruby


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Having a boat licence is NOT proof of ownership as far as I am aware. Anyone can licence any boat and you do not need to provide proof that you own the boat. Don't know what CRT do if a licence application is made for an already licenced boat, probably just assume the boat has been sold. When we first licenced kelpie, the old licence had expired a few months before and all we had to do was make an application and send some money. 

 

haggis

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43 minutes ago, Canal321 said:

Not when you hand a stranger the keys and expect to be paid in instalments, over the next so many months. 

(Not saying this has happened in this case)

As is always said on here, boat theft is never as simple as it first appears. 

 

If that happens you are chasing a debt, which is a very different thing - a civil matter rather than a police one. Even with written and signed agreements it can be nigh on impossible to do (says he, with experience 😟). If you're lucky you can win in court, and even get the bailiffs sent round to recover the debt, but if the debtor still refuses to pay, and especially if he moves around, you are on a hiding to nothing.

 

Tam

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12 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I'm still looking for the bloke who sold me my first trombone. "It's easy", he said, "and your neighbours will be so pleased...".

 

Your neighbours got away light, he could have sold you a banjo.

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10 hours ago, Granger said:

 

I’d also agree there should be something more substantial regarding ownership along the lines of a vc5 etc 

VC5 specifically states that it is not proof of ownership.

 

From the British Marine Boat Retailers & Brokers Code of Practice:

"Members shall use their best endeavours to verify the complete history of ownership of any craft offered for sale"

Members are also required to have professional indemnity insurance.

 

May not be absolute protection but it does go a long way.

10 hours ago, Granger said:

 

I’d also agree there should be something more substantial regarding ownership along the lines of a vc5 etc 

VC5 specifically states that it is not proof of ownership.

 

From the British Marine Boat Retailers & Brokers Code of Practice:

"Members shall use their best endeavours to verify the complete history of ownership of any craft offered for sale"

Members are also required to have professional indemnity insurance.

 

May not be absolute protection but it does go a long way.

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6 minutes ago, MartinC said:

"Members shall use their best endeavours to verify the complete history of ownership of any craft offered for sale"

 

Yes M'Lord, "we did ask the seller if he owned it, & he said he did. There is no other way of identifying ownership of inland waterway boats. The Governments 'ships register' would show registered ownership but is not used. We therefore cannot be held responsible for selling a stolen boat".

 

 

I don't understand why 'lumpy-water' boating is so different with regard to retention of paperwork, it is almost as if the Canal boaters go out of their way to have no traceability.

 

My current boat has all of the original builders invoices (staged payments), the initial bill of sale from the builder to its 1st owner, and each subsequent bill of sale up to me buying it, along with the VAT paid documentaion.

It must surely make selling a boat easier, and, give the buyer confidence in spending all their 'hard earned' knowing it is being sold by someone who has their name, address (witnessed) on the purchase documents and has owned the boat for X years.

 

Maybe it is time to regulate boats a little more in line with the rest of the world.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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We are currently in the process of selling our boat privately. We will be providing receipts for the monies received (and already have for the deposit money) and on payment of the full balance (fingers crossed next week) will be issuing a bill of sale/transfer of ownership document.

 

The boat has a full paper trail from when it was new so we thought it only fair to the new owners to provide paperwork for them also, even though we are fully aware that we don't technically need to do so and have no legal requirement to do so.

 

There are several template documents available online so see no reason why a bill of sale can not be provided for most if not all boat sales.

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I suspect it's because the boom in leisure boat sales (and prices) is a pretty recent thing. Certainly when I bought mine thirty years ago (for eight grand) there was no question of any paperwork, no proof of ownership from the guy I got it from, after answering an ad in Exchange and Mart. He had no idea who he'd bought it from, or it's previous history. Plenty of boats on my mooring changed hands similarly.

It would make sense for CRT to set up a proper registration system. It would let them get a proper handle on unregistered and unlicensed boats, and they're halfway there already. Presumably it would need legislation, but I'm sure they could find a Minister to bung it through under the current easy-law regs.

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19 hours ago, Canal321 said:

Possession is nine-tenths of the law.. I would not let my boat go until I had the money in the bank.. 

With today's internet transactions, even that is not enough since the likes of ebay can claim it back again - plenty of scams reported where the goods were not sent until money in bank but fraudulent claim then made. Either way around, without a broker or other documentation it is hard to prove.

 

Even taking photos of the goods being packed and sent  or unwrapped is not enough to be safe, although it helps.

Edited by Mike Todd
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49 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

With today's internet transactions, even that is not enough since the likes of ebay can claim it back again - plenty of scams reported where the goods were not sent until money in bank but fraudulent claim then made. Either way around, without a broker or other documentation it is hard to prove.

 

Even taking photos of the goods being packed and sent  or unwrapped is not enough to be safe, although it helps.

I give the keys up when one of two things happen. One is when the broker has transfered all money into my account and the second is when I have counted the twenty pound notes in my hand. How on earth anyone can  sell a boat by any other method defies belief. Another good reason to use a broker, they are more than welcome to their small slice for taking care of much hassle and eejuts on the fone. Last two boats I sold within a week through Rugby boats and one was bought by the first bloke who the broker sent along, the last one I sold was the second bloke as the first one was " Still thinking about it " lol. Out of the seven boats I have sold only one had a survey as they all had cash.

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10 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I give the keys up when one of two things happen. One is when the broker has transfered all money into my account and the second is when I have counted the twenty pound notes in my hand. How on earth anyone can  sell a boat by any other method defies belief. Another good reason to use a broker, they are more than welcome to their small slice for taking care of much hassle and eejuts on the fone. Last two boats I sold within a week through Rugby boats and one was bought by the first bloke who the broker sent along, the last one I sold was the second bloke as the first one was " Still thinking about it " lol. Out of the seven boats I have sold only one had a survey as they all had cash.

Our buyer is being very trusting. We are getting the money next week. He won't get the keys we are putting them where the boat transport guys can access them. We will have his money and he won't have seen the boat or know that it even physically exists 😕

 

He isn't going to even see the boat until it is transported to its new mooring in Norfolk.

 

He has had no survey so is taking us on our word for the condition of the boat.

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6 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Our buyer is being very trusting. We are getting the money next week. He won't get the keys we are putting them where the boat transport guys can access them. We will have his money and he won't have seen the boat or know that it even physically exists 😕

 

He isn't going to even see the boat until it is transported to its new mooring in Norfolk.

 

He has had no survey so is taking us on our word for the condition of the boat.

He like me is probably able to tell that you are who and what you are? I tend to suss people out within seconds of meeting. To be fair in todays inter

net led lifestyle if he googles your boat name and looks at this forum he will see lots of pictures of it and what you have spent in looking after it over the years and will know he doesnt need a survey.

Edited by mrsmelly
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12 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Our buyer is being very trusting. We are getting the money next week. He won't get the keys we are putting them where the boat transport guys can access them. We will have his money and he won't have seen the boat or know that it even physically exists 😕

 

He isn't going to even see the boat until it is transported to its new mooring in Norfolk.

 

He has had no survey so is taking us on our word for the condition of the boat.

did he meet you at least and know where you live? 

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2 minutes ago, restlessnomad said:

did he meet you at least and know where you live? 

Never met him.

 

He does have my phone number and address though.

10 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

He like me is probably able to tell that you are who and what you are? I tend to suss people out within seconds of meeting. To be fair in todays inter

net led lifestyle if he googles your boat name and looks at this forum he will see lots of pictures of it and what you have spent in looking after it over the years and will know he doesnt need a survey.

He has read through the blog. 

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1 minute ago, Naughty Cal said:

Never met him.

 

He does have my phone number and address though.

scary.. anybody could impersonate you using extensive info from internet... 

 

13 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

He like me is probably able to tell that you are who and what you are? I tend to suss people out within seconds of meeting. To be fair in todays inter

net led lifestyle if he googles your boat name and looks at this forum he will see lots of pictures of it and what you have spent in looking after it over the years and will know he doesnt need a survey.

if the guy is a multi millionaire and 27k is like small change then fine... otherwise its utter stupidity... 

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Just now, restlessnomad said:

scary.. anybody could impersonate you using extensive info from internet... 

 

if the guy is a multi millionaire and 27k is like small change then fine... otherwise its utter stupidity... 

£28k no survey we settled on to take it off the market 😀

2 minutes ago, restlessnomad said:

scary.. anybody could impersonate you using extensive info from internet... 

 

if the guy is a multi millionaire and 27k is like small change then fine... otherwise its utter stupidity... 

I don't know his circumstances and to be quite Frank I don't need to know them. 

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41 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Our buyer is being very trusting. We are getting the money next week. He won't get the keys we are putting them where the boat transport guys can access them. We will have his money and he won't have seen the boat or know that it even physically exists 😕

 

He isn't going to even see the boat until it is transported to its new mooring in Norfolk.

 

He has had no survey so is taking us on our word for the condition of the boat.

We will see if he posts on here in a couple of weeks time then.

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10 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

My boats have all had unique ID welded into the hull where only I can find it.

 

As do all boats since 1998 built to the RCD requirements.

One HIN on display and one hidden.

Only the manufacturer knows where the 'secret one' is. The other is on the transom /stern

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59 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

As do all boats since 1998 built to the RCD requirements.

One HIN on display and one hidden.

Only the manufacturer knows where the 'secret one' is. The other is on the transom /stern

But its all a bit pointless when the boat is in front of you and you know what it is, just not who's it is 

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10 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

But its all a bit pointless when the boat is in front of you and you know what it is, just not who's it is 

 

Exactly, there is a well known 'stolen boats and equipment website' that very few bother to use.

It is supported by both insurance companies and the Police.

 

I have no idea why it is not more widely used.

 

Welcome to Stolen Boats

 

Folks seem to think a Police Incident Number means that they are likely to get their boat back, they do not seem to appreciate that the Police don't have the resources to do anything about it, and give you a number so you can tell your insurers 'its been reported as stolen'

 

If everyone registed their stolen boat HIN, then any buyers could check and see if it is stolen.

It would be a start.

 

The system could even be develped as a Boating Registration system, but if folks put as much effort into registering as they do to keeping paperwork it would be worthless.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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