517878 Amethyst

[Guest]

1 minute ago, jamesinyk said:

I thought you filed this under no longer of interest?

No.

 

I actually filed Jerras comment there.

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, jamesinyk said:

My first experience of Canal Boat World was via this video:

 

I can’t say I’m disappointed. 
 

 

Yes that particular incident has been previously well discussed on here.

 

I believe based on the evidence in the video and the information available the general concensus was the NB skipper was at fault, and ISTR it was a relatively well known canal magazine journalist.

 

Not sure what relevance that video has to the incident refered to in your original post though. Its completely unrelated.

Edited August 13, 2020 by The Happy Nomad

[Guest]

Oh yes it is actually the Steve Haywood video.

[jeddlad]

Imho this post shows why the Facebook canal groups are thriving yet CWDF (although a wealth of knowledge is contained within these pages) is dominated by a handful of people. This place used to be my goto for canal stuff on the Web,  now I only visit when I'm exhausted by the FB canal groups.  

[Guest]

1 minute ago, jeddlad said:

Imho this post shows why the Facebook canal groups are thriving yet CWDF (although a wealth of knowledge is contained within these pages) is dominated by a handful of people. This place used to be my goto for canal stuff on the Web,  now I only visit when I'm exhausted by the FB canal groups.  

Good luck with Facebook.

 

Including the cwdf page. Its full of absolute tosh.

[Jerra]

11 hours ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Thankyou for your opinion.

 

It has been carefully and duly filed in the section marked 'of no further interest'.

 

However I see all too often on social media accusations of poor driving/boating/dog waling etc etc etc etc.

 

I merely point out the shortfall in a one sided account of an incident posted.

 

Would you like to be the recipient of such an accusation?

 

Answer, no you wouldn't.

It wasn't the fact you challenged the account , but the way it was challenged.

[jamesinyk]

10 hours ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Yes that particular incident has been previously well discussed on here.

 

I believe based on the evidence in the video and the information available the general concensus was the NB skipper was at fault, and ISTR it was a relatively well known canal magazine journalist.

 

Not sure what relevance that video has to the incident refered to in your original post though. Its completely unrelated.

I mention it as it is the epitome of the minority of entitled “professional” boaters in action. We have met dozens of owners on this trip, the vast, vast majority of whom have been friendly, helpful and understanding of the “amateur”. This chap (his wife actually), one other and yourself have helped cement that stereotype. 
 

 

[Rickent]

11 hours ago, jamesinyk said:

New Marton lock 2, Llangollen, climbing. Boat had followed us (closely) from bridge 6. He hit us at the red marker point. 
 

 

Are you saying he hit you from behind claiming you were going too slow?

[Tony Brooks]

When the OP has been forced to follow another boat at idle for miles and miles because the boat in front sits in the centre of the canal at idle with the crew looking every way but to the rear and oncoming boats, moored boats and bends make trying to pass unsafe then he may alter his view. Mr Amethyst may have a good reason for wanting to travel at faster then idle and the speed of boats at idle vary so it may well be true that Amethyst had to keep going into neutral to match the OPs speed. Also how well was the OP steering? Was he wandering all over the canal blocking attempts to pass him?

 

I would suggest that Mr Amethyst could post an account giving a totally different perspective.

 

I think the OP mentioned blowing the horn - is he aware there are sound signals that cover the intention to pass and did he respond in the right way?

 

How well did he keep adequate watch astern? Did he move over and signal Mr Amethyst to pass at the earliest safe opportunity?

 

As others have said this is a one sided report with insufficient details to condemn Mr Amethyst, I suspect it was six or one and half a dozen of the other and with more experience and courtesy form the OP this may never have happened.

[Rickent]

4 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

When the OP has been forced to follow another boat at idle for miles and miles because the boat in front sits in the centre of the canal at idle with the crew looking every way but to the rear and oncoming boats, moored boats and bends make trying to pass unsafe then he may alter his view. Mr Amethyst may have a good reason for wanting to travel at faster then idle and the speed of boats at idle vary so it may well be true that Amethyst had to keep going into neutral to match the OPs speed. Also how well was the OP steering? Was he wandering all over the canal blocking attempts to pass him?

 

I would suggest that Mr Amethyst could post an account giving a totally different perspective.

 

I think the OP mentioned blowing the horn - is he aware there are sound signals that cover the intention to pass and did he respond in the right way?

 

How well did he keep adequate watch astern? Did he move over and signal Mr Amethyst to pass at the earliest safe opportunity?

 

As others have said this is a one sided report with insufficient details to condemn Mr Amethyst, I suspect it was six or one and half a dozen of the other and with more experience and courtesy form the OP this may never have happened.

I always make sure I know what is behind me and if someone is going quicker and catching me up I pull over and let them pass.

[system 4-50]

14 minutes ago, jamesinyk said:

I mention it as it is the epitome of the minority of entitled “professional” boaters in action. We have met dozens of owners on this trip, the vast, vast majority of whom have been friendly, helpful and understanding of the “amateur”. This chap (his wife actually), one other and yourself have helped cement that stereotype. 

I have read and reread this several times and I still don't understand what you are saying. 

 

I find I have an urge to post on CWDF after I have been upset by other boaters behaving in what seems to me to be an inconsiderate way but I've learnt that it normally provokes an unsympathetic response no matter how clear cut the case is in my favour.  I suspect it is the nature of the internet, it is very much easier for responders to identify faults in what I am saying than it is for them to agree with me as that gives a bland and somehow uninteresting response.

I don't post to get a response from the party involved, there is no way that any sense is going to come out of that anymore than would be available person to person at the time.

 

I find that I get rammed by all shades of boaters, but perhaps dayboats and high-gloss infrequent-user owners get a special mention, with one of the latter telling me it couldn't be her fault because her boat cost considerably more than mine.

 

I sympathise with you having your day spoilt by what seems to have been rubbish behaviour.

[David Mack]

15 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

 

I sympathise with you having your day spoilt by what seems to have been rubbish behaviour.

 

We can all sympathise with someone who has experienced poor behaviour from another, but I don't think it is acceptable for the OP to come on here naming and shaming and photographing the alleged offender (who almost certainly isn't here to defend himself), while at the same time hiding behind a pseudonym. What on earth does the OP expect to achieve?

[nicknorman]

48 minutes ago, jamesinyk said:

I mention it as it is the epitome of the minority of entitled “professional” boaters in action. We have met dozens of owners on this trip, the vast, vast majority of whom have been friendly, helpful and understanding of the “amateur”. This chap (his wife actually), one other and yourself have helped cement that stereotype. 
 

I suggest it is quite wrong to think of a boat owner as a “professional” - with the definition of professional being that you get paid to do it.

 

Bear in mind that one difference between a hire boater and an owner-boater is that the former had some training from the hire company, whilst the latter may well have had absolutely zero training. In other words there are plenty of incompetent owners.

 

However there are also other factors at play: hire boats tend to have tiny propellors which mean that the boat will probably do 1 mph at idle. This is to discourage hire boaters from going too fast. Private boats tend to have propellors matched to engine and hull and thus (as is the case with ours) probably does 2mph at idle.

 

It can be difficult and frustrating to get stuck behind a boat doing 1 mph past moored boats etc when ones own boat does 2 mph at idle.

 

But I think the main way you have incriminated yourself is that you report that the boat had been following you closely since bridge 6, and you are now past bridge 11. You should have pulled over to let the boat pass at the outset. It is just common good manners and politeness. There is nothing clever about going along at a speed that causes other people to have to slow down, whilst self-righteously proclaiming “I am going at the CORRECT speed”. One sees it on the roads a lot, but that doesn’t mean the same selfish behaviour has to be replicated on the canals.

 

Next time, let a faster boat pass and then this whole set of events won’t play out again.

[Alan de Enfield]

It has already been mentioned but you are probably not aware that there are certain regulations designed to avoid collisions (called ColRegs), listed in the ColRegs are a series of 'sound signals' to indicate various actions and reactions from boaters.

 

 

 

So, if he had been 'tooting' you for miles it was probably not to be aggressive and say 'get a move on' but to request permission to pass you, to which your response should have been to move over and 'toot'  long-short-long-short in reply.

 

It could be that the 'collision' was down to your inexperience and lack of knowledge.

 

 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, Rickent said:

I always make sure I know what is behind me and if someone is going quicker and catching me up I pull over and let them pass.

likewise - its simple courtesy.

[Higgs]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It has already been mentioned but you are probably not aware that there are certain regulations designed to avoid collisions (called ColRegs), listed in the ColRegs are a series of 'sound signals' to indicate various actions and reactions from boaters.

 

 

 

So, if he had been 'tooting' you for miles it was probably not to be aggressive and say 'get a move on' but to request permission to pass you, to which your response should have been to move over and 'toot'  long-short-long-short in reply.

 

It could be that the 'collision' was down to your inexperience and lack of knowledge.

 

 

 

 

 

 

As the situation stands - no one has to be qualified and tested. Hire a car: you can't, without you've passed a test. 

 

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

 

As the situation stands - no one has to be qualified and tested. Hire a car: you can't, without you've passed a test. 

 

 

 

 

That is very true, and I place a lot of blame on the hire companies - when hiring we have never been told about sound signals or anything beyond starting and stopping the engine, pass to the left and how to work locks.

 

I'm sure it would not be a complicated job to stick the above little chart at the helm and explain about sound-signals, and other waterways courtesies.

[WotEver]

13 hours ago, jamesinyk said:

New Marton lock 2, Llangollen, climbing. Boat had followed us (closely) from bridge 6.

And you hadn’t had the opportunity to pull over to allow him to pass in all that time?

[Bee]

Sometimes boats can be really awkward to steer, a puff of wind, a bit of current and as anybody who has tried to steer through a tunnel or narrow bit of water knows you will often gradually get pulled to the side and it can be damned hard to get off, passing boats very closely is always tricky, they will get pulled together and the highly experienced and the less experienced will often end up in much the same situation. Narrowboats are arguably the strongest vessels for their size that you will find anywhere even with all that flat plate, Sea going yachts often have hulls of thinner steel than the cabin sides of a good many narrowboats so a few scrapes really don't matter much.

[howardang]

8 minutes ago, Bee said:

Sometimes boats can be really awkward to steer, a puff of wind, a bit of current and as anybody who has tried to steer through a tunnel or narrow bit of water knows you will often gradually get pulled to the side and it can be damned hard to get off, passing boats very closely is always tricky, they will get pulled together and the highly experienced and the less experienced will often end up in much the same situation. Narrowboats are arguably the strongest vessels for their size that you will find anywhere even with all that flat plate, Sea going yachts often have hulls of thinner steel than the cabin sides of a good many narrowboats so a few scrapes really don't matter much.

Just follow the West mantra- "It's a contact sport!" and you can't go wrong. ?

 

Howard

[Tracy D'arth]

It was much better and quieter when we hoisted flag signals, all this tooting disturbs my daydreaming when I am steering.

[Tony Brooks]

28 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I'm sure it would not be a complicated job to stick the above little chart at the helm and explain about sound-signals, and other waterways courtesies.

 

That is fine as far as it goes but very few inland boaters have any inkling about sound signals so even if hire boaters had the info all too often it would mean nothing apart from "why is he making all that noise" to many boaters.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, Tony Brooks said:

 

That is fine as far as it goes but very few inland boaters have any inkling about sound signals so even if hire boaters had the info all too often it would mean nothing apart from "why is he making all that noise" to many boaters.

 

That is also very true.
I think we are about the only country in the world that allows anyone to buy any boat, with no experience and no requirement for insurance, jump-on and drive off.

Whilst I'm all for the 'freedom' I do think that there should be some sort of basic 'driving licence' to be achieved before you can buy a boat.

 

The RYA 'Day Skipper' or 'Powerboat Level 1' (1-day course), 'Power Boat level 2 (2-day course) or even the ICC are all very simple and don't takes weeks of 'schooling'

The 'Inland' certificates are even simpler & are 'watered down' with obviously no coverage of things like Tides, Navigation etc.

[Guest]

49 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

That is very true, and I place a lot of blame on the hire companies - when hiring we have never been told about sound signals or anything beyond starting and stopping the engine, pass to the left and how to work locks.

 

I'm sure it would not be a complicated job to stick the above little chart at the helm and explain about sound-signals, and other waterways courtesies.

I know things can get lost in interpretation but surely you mean 'pass to the right' or 'pass left to left (port to port)'.

[system 4-50]

Is it possible to pass on this stretch of the LLanwhatsit?  I've put off visiting it because I understood it had lots of narrow places?