Boat Sitting too high?

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, Dr Bob said:

I'm rising above this baiting.

Worming your way out of it ?

[doratheexplorer]

21 hours ago, DeepLock said:

I was expecting the leisure batteries and engine running would power the oven? 

 

I have a steeling inverter with 3 leisure batteries 

 

Your thoughts?

 

 

Please tell me this is a wind up?

[Onewheeler]

12 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

With electric cooking it better sit in a marina.

Many marinas have a 6 A MCB on the shore power. That won't run much cooking kit.

[dmr]

Its a big boat so if you plan a lot of off cruising then decent handling and stopping power are essential so that Uxter plate needs to be below the water level. As I said earlier, a little upward slope towards the front is ok and in my opinion its a good thing, but don't overdo it and so getting ballast in the right place is important.

 

If you are mostly off grid then getting the leccy sorted out is a big issue and a big learning curve. About 600Ah of batteries would be good but you will still need to minimise consumption. Big alternator(s) on the engine, some solar (not much good in winter) and possibly a built in generator will be required. Forget electric cooking if at all possible. Gas has huge advantages but you do need a suitable gas bottle locker.

 

I have moored next to liveaboard widebeams that need to run generator for about 18 hours every day, do not become one of these.

 

Are you going to be a full liveaboard and off grid in winter?

 

...............Dave

[Tony Brooks]

21 hours ago, DeepLock said:

I was expecting the leisure batteries and engine running would power the oven? 

 

I have a steeling inverter with 3 leisure batteries 

 

Your thoughts?

 

 

 

Let's say the oven will run off a 13A outlet and has a rating of about 2000 Watts. 2kW.

 

By the time you have allowed for inverter inefficiencies that equates to a demand for about 200 Amps @ 12V

 

Three unspecified batteries so lets say 110 Ah leisures. That gives 330Ah of capacity IF FULLY CHARGED when new and from then on they loose capacity. ow fast depends upon how well and frequently you fully recharge them.

 

To optimise battery life on would  try not to discharge below about 50% although some  expensive batteries could be taken lower providing they are fully recharged ASAP. So the 330Ah becomes 165 Ah

 

As CRT rules say you should not run your engine when stationary between 8pm and 8am any oven cooking outside those times will be solely powered by the batteries so you have under an hour's worth of cooking time and that is the best case and ignores other electrical loads. In all probability the batteries will be sulphated with reduced capacity and they are unlikely to be fully charged. Then you face trying to fully repêchage them again and that will take double figure hours from alternators.

 

If you are lucky your engine will have two alternators, the larger one for the domestic battery bank. We don't know the size of this alternator but on a modern engine maybe 150 Amps. Running the engine at maximum charging speed will give a deficit of 50Ah that the batteries will have to make up and they will not be being recharged while the oven is on. Having the oven on fr an hour (ignoring any thermostat) will use up nearly 1/3 of your new battery capacity and rather more once the batteries have been in service. Even more if they do not start fully charged. You will then need to get that 50 Ah back into the batteries but you may have to produce around 70Ah to do that.

 

A 150 A alternator will produce an AVERAGE output of about 75 A  over three to four hours running at maximum charging speed.From then on the average output drops and drops until it is only a few amps so it will take many hours to recharge the batteries.

 

It may all work at first but I lay odds you will soon be in battery troubles.

 

If you are intent on doing this you need battery monitoring equipment so you know when you must start recharging ASAP and when the bank is all but fully charged so you can stop. Plenty of threads on the forum about the best equipment and how to use it.

 

 

[Murflynn]

why don't the learned members read DeepLock's explanation in #70 - he will use leccy in the marina and gas on the cut.

 

nuff said.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Murflynn

[TheBiscuits]

10 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

why don't the learned members read DeepLock's explanation in #70 - he will use leccy in the marina and gas on the cut.

 

nuff said.

One of those camping stoves presumably if he isn't installing a gas cooker ... Unless he's going for a gas hob and an electric oven.

[Tony Brooks]

41 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

why don't the learned members read DeepLock's explanation in #70 - he will use leccy in the marina and gas on the cut.

 

nuff said.

That may be the intention now but I think its a fair chance it won't turn out like that. The need to reheat something or fancy a roast and the good intentions go out of the window. It is far better to deal with what could become a very real problem now rather than wait until it shows itself big time.

[Chris Williams]

20 hours ago, Loddon said:

Most canal boats run better with the hull as close to hotizontal as you can get it.

Old boaters told me to load slightly bows down.  The motor will pull herself stern down as soon as she moves.

[GUMPY]

5 minutes ago, Chris Williams said:

Old boaters told me to load slightly bows down.  The motor will pull herself stern down as soon as she moves.

Totally agree I just wasn't brave enough to say it.

I have pics of continental barges loaded and underway very bow down.

I guess the "fad" for ballasting a canal boat bow up is to emulate an unloaded working boat

[dmr]

7 minutes ago, Chris Williams said:

Old boaters told me to load slightly bows down.  The motor will pull herself stern down as soon as she moves.

But a modern boat designed to accommodate people is a very different thing to an open working boat full of coal etc.  and driving a modern shallow drafted leisure boat at modern canal cruising speed will result in much reduced pulling down at the back.  There are several reasons to ballast a little stern down, one is to aid the management of any water that accidentally finds its way into the boat, a significant issue with modern boats but of little concern in working boats.

 

.................Dave

[IanD]

4 minutes ago, dmr said:

But a modern boat designed to accommodate people is a very different thing to an open working boat full of coal etc.  and driving a modern shallow drafted leisure boat at modern canal cruising speed will result in much reduced pulling down at the back.  There are several reasons to ballast a little stern down, one is to aid the management of any water that accidentally finds its way into the boat, a significant issue with modern boats but of little concern in working boats.

 

.................Dave

Another practical reason for many boats with a full-length cabin is that they have a water tank under the foredeck, the top of this has to be above water level to allow the well deck to drain, and the front door(s) need a step-over bulwark to keep water out of the boat. If the boat is ballasted level (to keep the uxter plate submerged) instead of up at the bows the well deck has to be higher up, this reduces the height of the front door(s) and raises them higher off the floor inside, making it more difficult to get in and out. Too short doors = banged head... ?

[dmr]

14 minutes ago, IanD said:

Another practical reason for many boats with a full-length cabin is that they have a water tank under the foredeck, the top of this has to be above water level to allow the well deck to drain, and the front door(s) need a step-over bulwark to keep water out of the boat. If the boat is ballasted level (to keep the uxter plate submerged) instead of up at the bows the well deck has to be higher up, this reduces the height of the front door(s) and raises them higher off the floor inside, making it more difficult to get in and out. Too short doors = banged head... ?

The fullness of water and diesel tanks (and maybe poo tank) will also change the angle at which the boats sits, sometimes quite significantly. Most people choose to sleep aligned to the boat (unless they have a back cabin) and sleeping with head lower than feet is not healthy or pleasant and so the boat really must be ballasted front upwards so that it is no worse than level with a worse case tank weight.

 

An upward trim of just 1 degree equates to about 14 inches over a 70 foot boat 

 

................Dave

[howardang]

54 minutes ago, Chris Williams said:

Old boaters told me to load slightly bows down.  The motor will pull herself stern down as soon as she moves.

A positive use of squat. Another reason for trimming slightly down by the head (bows slightly down) is that in very shallow waterways, where there is a good chance of touching the bottom, the bow will touch first and therefore the rudder and propeller will remain in deeper water, allowing a better chance of manoeuvring and therefore increasing the chance of getting the boat afloat once more. However, it is not a good idea to trim by the head if working in deeper water because most vessels don't steer as well in this trim.

 

Howard

[Chris Williams]

2 hours ago, howardang said:

However, it is not a good idea to trim by the head if working in deeper water because most vessels don't steer as well in this trim.

It didn't seem to make any noticeable difference to Jaguar, being a Josher.

[matty40s]

On 02/07/2019 at 18:13, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Yeahbut that means another 4 tonnes of ballast in the front, too...

 

Oh and this is not a narrowboat.  

Oh, and the water tank is at the back.....

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Oh, and the water tank is at the back.....

Engine at the back

Fuel tank at the back

Water tank at the back

 

And still the back end sits too high.

[TheBiscuits]

17 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Engine at the back

Fuel tank at the back

Water tank at the back

 

And still the back end sits too high.

The tanks are only 30% and 50% full though.

 

You don't want to get told off again today for not reading the thread Alan! 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

The tanks are only 30% and 50% full though.

 

You don't want to get told off again today for not reading the thread Alan! 

 

Perish the thought !!!

 

However in 'real life' are the Fuel tank,& water tank always going to be full ?

Surely the boat needs to be ballasted with tankage at ~50% which as an average will be nearer everyday use than 100% will.

 

Where is the toilet tank ?

additional weight could be added 'forward' as the tank fills making the situation even worse.

 

We just don't know enough.

[cuthound]

33 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Engine at the back

Fuel tank at the back

Water tank at the back

 

And still the back end sits too high.

 

13 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

The tanks are only 30% and 50% full though.

 

You don't want to get told off again today for not reading the thread Alan! 

 

 

I wonder If the OP has checked the depth of the water under his boat? Sounds like the bost may be aground to me. ??

[Murflynn]

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

 

 

I wonder If the OP has checked the depth of the water under his boat? Sounds like the bost may be aground to me. ??

the clue may be in the thread title - the boat is SITTING too high ............................. 

[DeepLock]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Perish the thought !!!

 

However in 'real life' are the Fuel tank,& water tank always going to be full ?

Surely the boat needs to be ballasted with tankage at ~50% which as an average will be nearer everyday use than 100% will.

 

Where is the toilet tank ?

additional weight could be added 'forward' as the tank fills making the situation even worse.

 

We just don't know enough.

Hi Alan,

 

fuel tank - stern (30% full) of 400 ltrs

water tank - bow

waste tank - bow/bedroom - approx 12 ft from front

1 hour ago, Murflynn said:

the clue may be in the thread title - the boat is SITTING too high ............................. 

‘Tis indeed!

2 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

 

I wonder If the OP has checked the depth of the water under his boat? Sounds like the bost may be aground to me. ??

Definitely not aground, it sailed down 7 locks too!

Edited July 3, 2019 by DeepLock

[Chris Williams]

3 minutes ago, DeepLock said:

Sounds like the bost may be aground to me.

I loaded Jaguar at Kidlington.  Had to get a tractor to move her, never mind the trim.

[DeepLock]

Good evening everyone,

 

Update 2:

 

Builder has advised they’re sending a team down to resolve the issue armed with plates of steel to be set under the galley floor and wherever else required to balance the boat.

 

I have spoken to a surveyor and it think it’s worthwhile them coming after the weight balancing, that way I can be sure the job has been completed satisfactorily.

 

Kitchen, I mean galley fit out and flooring has been paused until after steel has been loaded.

 

Shall report back on Monday evening, in the meantime I’ll start looking at the oven posts ?

 

   

9 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

One of those camping stoves presumably if he isn't installing a gas cooker ... Unless he's going for a gas hob and an electric oven.

That’s correct, gas hob and leccy oven.

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, DeepLock said:

Hi Alan,

 

fuel tank - bow (30% full) of 400 ltrs

water tank - stern

waste tank - stern/bedroom - approx 12 ft from front

Well - that's unusual.

 

A 60 foot boat with the fuel tank at the front and the engine at the back.

 

Are you sure you are using the correct tanks ? ?