Boat Sitting too high?

[DeepLock]

Hi All,

 

I’m a complete newbie to boating and have just received delivery of a widebeam 70x12 (waiting for the rolleyes ?)!!

 

On craning in we noticed it was sitting about 2 inches above where it should be, the manufacturer told us it would settle down once the kitchen and fit out was completed. We also noticed the boat struggled to slow down in reverse.

 

Ive just had the kitchen delivered into boat and it hadn’t moved or gone down. I’m being told by the manufacturer that I may have to put more ballast/weight in the engine room.

 

Is this the right approach or should they put more ballast under the kitchen floor? I didn’t really want the engine room full of extra weights but would be grateful for your learned opinions and suggestions

 

ive attached a picture but it doesn’t really show how it it sits.

 

Thank you

Dee

 

 

[MtB]

I'd say the manu was just giving you the brush off. It needs, I estimate, two or three tonnes of ballast in the back to get the counter down to the water. The bow will rise up a bit. 

 

Once the counter is on the water, stopping performance will improve dramatically. 

 

 

6 minutes ago, DeepLock said:

Is this the right approach or should they put more ballast under the kitchen floor?

 

The kitchen in a boat is called the 'galley'.... 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, DeepLock said:

I’m being told by the manufacturer that I may have to put more ballast/weight in the engine room.

Is that YOU must put more ballast in, or they will ?

 

If the boat is not correct then I'd withhold the final payment and let them 'sort it' before finally signing the acceptance.

 

If it is pretty much just a 'shell' and you are doing a self fit-out they would have no idea of what you are installing so can only make a best guess and you will have to trim it when you have completed the fit-out.

[Tony Brooks]

When it is completed and all your possessions are aboard you will probably need trimming ballast to set it on an even keel and get a fore-aft trim you are happy with. Far too many inland boat builders put ballast in the engine room to do this when ideally it should be under the floor. Now I bet your builder has just screwed the floor down and put any bulkheads on top. That will prevent you putting any ballast under the floor. My advice would be to spend a time now altering the flooring so you can get it up if needs be so you do not waste storage space with ballast that can go under the floor. Removable boards may also help if you ever get water in the bilge.

 

It is almost certain you will need to redistribute or add/remove ballast one the boat is fully complete and your stuff is aboard.

[Onewheeler]

Unless there is a lot of heavy stuff still to go in during fit out you are being fed BS. Go back to the maker. The quantity of ballast that you need will not come cheap and it will cost to have it delivered.

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Far too many inland boat builders put ballast in the engine room to do this when ideally it should be under the floor.

 

With a 12ft wide boat I bet there is not enough space under the floor to fit 3 tonnes of paving stones, which will be another reason the builder said 'engine room'. (Presumably the engine is under the stern decking, not in a proper engine room.)

 

 

[bizzard]

Looking at the photo the boat looks like it is a square stern widebeam which have a very large bouyancy area at the stern and will almost certainly need a lot of ballast in the rear engine space to get the uxter plate down.

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, Onewheeler said:

Unless there is a lot of heavy stuff still to go in during fit out you are being fed BS. Go back to the maker. The quantity of ballast that you need will not come cheap and it will cost to have it delivered.

 

Yes, this.

 

Paving stones or engineering bricks are the cheapest ballast but not the smallest in volume. 1" steel cut up into about 12" squares is probably the best combination of density and ease of handling. I guess mine weigh about 20kg each. 

 

Another good compact ballast to use is old 56lb Avery scale weights. They typically cost about £25 each. Plus delivery. 

 

 

[howardang]

9 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Yes, this.

 

Paving stones or engineering bricks are the cheapest ballast but not the smallest in volume. 1" steel cut up into about 12" squares is probably the best combination of density and ease of handling. I guess mine weigh about 20kg each. 

 

Another good compact ballast to use is old 56lb Avery scale weights. They typically cost about £25 each. Plus delivery. 

 

 

I would have a look at what you have actually contracted to buy. For example, is it a bare shell for self fit out or is it described as a sail -away. As a self fit out it is reasonable for the manufacturer to suggest that you should carry out the final ballasting as part of the fit out. However, if it is a sail -away I think it would very much depend on what the manufacturer said he was going to include. Have you any written spec concerning what you were purchasing? If you have to take responsibility for ballasting you are going to need a large quantity, as others have already suggested, and access could be a real problem if bulkheads or other such items have already been fitted.

 

Howard

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Another good compact ballast to use is old 56lb Avery scale weights. They typically cost about £25 each. Plus delivery. 

 

Equates to £3000 (if you could find enough of them)

[GUMPY]

If that is 2" you will need 3.8 ton spread over the boat to get it down 

If 3" then 5.75ton  lengthXbreadthxdepth in meters gives you approx displacement.

The builder is pulling a fast one!

 

[Machpoint005]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Equates to £3000 (if you could find enough of them)

 

How much is 4 tonnes of steel plate?

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Equates to £3000 (if you could find enough of them)

 

Indeed. And a few tonnes of engineering bricks will prolly be about a grand. 

 

 

36 minutes ago, DeepLock said:

Hi All,

 

I’m a complete newbie to boating and have just received delivery of a widebeam 70x12

 

This really isn't the best way around to do it. I have the horrid feeling this is gonna be the first in a long series of expensive surprises for the OP. Better get informed first, THEN buy the widebeam shell to fit out.  

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, Machpoint005 said:

 

How much is 4 tonnes of steel plate?

The £3000 for the potato weights was based on 3 tonnes.

 

40 to the Tonne and £25 each.

 

No idea on plate costs.

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

How much is 4 tonnes of steel plate?

 

My guess would be about £5k, plus a grand for cutting it up into 12" squares.

 

Again plus delivery to the cutting up engineers, then delivery again to the boat. 

 

[Onewheeler]

Bits of railway track make good ballast.

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, Loddon said:

If that is 2" you will need 3.8 ton spread over the boat to get it down 

If 3" then 5.75ton  lengthXbreadthxdepth in meters gives you approx displacement.

The builder is pulling a fast one!

 

Depends on delivery spec.  Although if the boat can move in the water and the  kitchen bits have been delivered I'd say it at least a lined sailaway.

 

How big are the diesel and water tanks, and are they full or empty? There could be a tonne or more there.

 

How many leisure batteries are being added?  Stove? Large calorifier? Shower enclosure and tiling?

 

There could easily be a couple of tonnes to add yet, but we don't know.

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

My guess would be about £5k, plus a grand for cutting it up into 12" squares.

 

Again plus delivery to the cutting up engineers, then delivery again to the boat. 

 

Th Op may like to look at the Mann Buck http://www.mannbuck.com who seem to sell second hand/reclaimed steel bar offcuts marketed at ballasting boats. I doubt it will be 12" square but should stack well enough. However it all dpends upon access to the areas it is to be placed.

[DeepLock]

38 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I'd say the manu was just giving you the brush off. It needs, I estimate, two or three tonnes of ballast in the back to get the counter down to the water. The bow will rise up a bit. 

 

Once the counter is on the water, stopping performance will improve dramatically. 

 

 

 

The kitchen in a boat is called the 'galley'.... 

 

 

Thank you for the quick response! And correct terminology noted ?.

 

good to know that’s what needs to be done.

[Machpoint005]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The £3000 for the potato weights was based on 3 tonnes.

 

40 to the Tonne and £25 each.

 

No idea on plate costs.

 

Yes, and my 4 tonnes was based on the range 3.8 to 5.75 mentioned by Loddon. The 200 squares mentioned by MtB would take up an awful lot of room, though.

It looks as if the OP is going to have to put in some seriously heavy fittings.

[DeepLock]

34 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Is that YOU must put more ballast in, or they will ?

 

If the boat is not correct then I'd withhold the final payment and let them 'sort it' before finally signing the acceptance.

 

If it is pretty much just a 'shell' and you are doing a self fit-out they would have no idea of what you are installing so can only make a best guess and you will have to trim it when you have completed the fit-out.

Initially started as me putting it in but spoke to someone else and they said they’d put steel in under the kitchen between floor and kitchen units. My preference is they lift the boards up and place it there? Payment already completed and it’s sail away lined.

 

tbey never mentioned trimming after fit out, so thanks I will keep this in mind 

35 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Now I bet your builder has just screwed the floor down and put any bulkheads on top. That will prevent you putting any ballast under the floor. My advice would be to spend a time now altering the flooring so you can get it up if needs be so you do not waste storage space with ballast that can go under the floor. Removable boards may also help if you ever get water in the bilge.

 

It is almost certain you will need to redistribute or add/remove ballast one the boat is fully complete and your stuff is aboard.

Yes, they have screwed down down floors.

 

they want to put steel under kitchen units 

 

I’m not really feeling the love in that idea - my preference is lifting the boards out.

 

ny predicament is that the kitchen fitter arrived today.  

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, DeepLock said:

Payment already completed and it’s sail away lined.

It might not be so far off then if all you currently have is an empty boat.

 

There are more people have to remove ballast from boats than have to add it if they are doing their own fitting out!

[DeepLock]

37 minutes ago, Onewheeler said:

Unless there is a lot of heavy stuff still to go in during fit out you are being fed BS. Go back to the maker. The quantity of ballast that you need will not come cheap and it will cost to have it delivered.

Thanks, I have some this and it’s seems like they are in agreement and will be sending someone out.

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

Yes, and my 4 tonnes was based on the range 3.8 to 5.75 mentioned by Loddon. The 200 squares mentioned by MtB would take up an awful lot of room, though.

 

 

No, steel is FAR denser than bricks or anything masonry and steel plate cut to well-fitting sizes gives about the best weight-to-volume easily available for ballast. 

 

Engineering bricks however give by far the best weight-per-£ spent. 

 

 

 

 

 

[DeepLock]

35 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

With a 12ft wide boat I bet there is not enough space under the floor to fit 3 tonnes of paving stones, which will be another reason the builder said 'engine room'. (Presumably the engine is under the stern decking, not in a proper engine room.)

 

 

Yes, Engine under the stern 

They now also agree that the engine room  isn’t the ideal location and have suggested steel.

33 minutes ago, bizzard said:

will almost certainly need a lot of ballast in the rear engine space to get the uxter plate down.

Learning a lot here - Uxter plate ??