Has anyone actually bought from Whilton/Venetian Marina?

[Lmcgrath87]

So, I know lots of people here describe the above marina's as boat graveyards, and a good place to go to see a lot of boats but generally (I may have misunderstood) the consensus is you wouldn't buy from there.

 

But has anyone here done that? I mean, they must be selling boats or they wouldn't be in business still, just curious if anyone has any experience of buying through them.

 

 

[Athy]

Yes. Our first boat 'Octavia', about 16 years ago. Got a decent deal, surveyor was Barrie Morse who I think is independent, had the boat for four years during which time she only had one real breakdown, a gearbox failure. I remember some of the staff, such as Tom the fitter and the salesman who actually handled our sale, others as less so,

Edited November 27, 2014 by Athy

[Alan de Enfield]

There are a number of stories here if you do a search - they vary from "it sunk on the way to London - just a cople of days after purchase' to another where "the surveyor they recommended was a relative of the salesman, and, being novices, we booked a training session, which was run by the salesman's uncle, once we got out on our own the boat was a total disaster, nothing worked .............."

 

They do have some very expensive boats, which may be of good quality, but if you intend to use a surveyor, make sure you choose one, not the one that they push onto you.

 

I did try to buy a boat from them - but failed - I was told by an employee it was 'stock' boat but the salesman denied it - when I asked for confirmation that they owned it, and that any sale, would be subject to the Trades Description Act. I was then told that "they would not accept my offer"

[LEO]

Hi,

 

My mooring neighbour purchased a boat from them 3 years ago on a part exchange basis and seemed happy with the deal. They sold the trade in quickly.

 

L.

[Nightwatch]

I know of a couple of people who have purchased from these brokers.

 

The general consensus is that perhaps some of their procedures are a little obscure and 'different' but if you go in with your eyes open you may well come away with a boat of your dreams and at the price you are comfortable with.

 

We have looked at boats at Whilton a number of times. Some are suspect,some need work and you use your imagination, others are fine as they are and acceptable.

 

Give them a go, read their policy regarding deposits etc.

Search on here for other threads.

 

Martyn

[matty40s]

Many people buy from Whilton/Venetian, quite a few are on here.

Ones I have been meeting in the last two years have generally found problems quite soon afterwards with things that were not highlighted in surveys or during sale. Some of these faults were quite serious.

Yes, they sell lots of boats, the good thing abouit this forum is that you are going in there equipped with the knowledge that not all may be quite as straight forward or rosy as it seems.

If you are not sure, take someone with you who knows boats.

[Lmcgrath87]

There are one or two that have caught my eye, they may be totally wrong in the flesh - or gone by the time we can get up there, which will be in the new year now, it's just now i have narrowed down what I want out of my boat, I've found there aren't many around on the market that tick the boxes!

[MtB]

I have tried to buy from them a few years ago.

 

They refused to pass my offer on to the owner, describing it as 'insulting', and 'making them look unprofessional'.

 

(I'd offered £40k on a £47k boat by the way, IIRC)

 

MtB

[matty40s]

I have tried to buy from them a few years ago.

 

They refused to pass my offer on to the owner, describing it as 'insulting', and 'making them look unprofessional'.

 

(I'd offered £40k on a £47k boat by the way, IIRC)

 

MtB

That would be a stock boat then....

[OldGoat]

If you look at the motor trade as an equivalent then there are some brokers who will take anything on and others who will only take on a boat that meets their standards or area of expertise.

 

That's like comparing Arthur Daley type enterprises and some of the better main car dealers.

 

If you look at it that way it makes it more understandable (if you buy cars, anyway)

 

 

[MtB]

If you look at the motor trade as an equivalent then there are some brokers who will take anything on and others who will only take on a boat that meets their standards or area of expertise.

 

That's like comparing Arthur Daley type enterprises and some of the better main car dealers.

 

If you look at it that way it makes it more understandable (if you buy cars, anyway)

 

 

 

 

True, but there is one big difference.

 

Arthur Daley used to polish his cars and attempt to make them look superficially good. Whilton just present them exactly as handed over by the owners whatever the interior state.

 

 

MtB

[Lmcgrath87]

If you look at the motor trade as an equivalent then there are some brokers who will take anything on and others who will only take on a boat that meets their standards or area of expertise.

 

That's like comparing Arthur Daley type enterprises and some of the better main car dealers.

 

If you look at it that way it makes it more understandable (if you buy cars, anyway)

 

 

haha you clearly missed my thread about buying a car!

[Athy]

 

 

True, but there is one big difference.

 

Arthur Daley used to polish his cars and attempt to make them look superficially good. Whilton just present them exactly as handed over by the owners whatever the interior state.

 

 

MtB

To be fair, I think that the onus is always on the seller to prepare the boat for sale - unlike in the car trade where the garage cleans the car up before offering it for sale. Certainly this was the case when ABNB, a very reputable broker, sold our last boat.

[nipper]

I bought Largo from Whilton Marina.

 

I paid, what i thought was a fair price for a top spec boat that had been hanging around for two years on two marina's.

I found the experience pleasant and quite painless.

 

Over the weeks that they allowed me to stay in the marina, with no charge, whilst I got Largo ready for the delivery trip to Loughborough, I changed the battery bank, replaced the oil and filters, including fuel filters and cleaned out all the pipework to them, .changed all three alternators belts etc.

I did what most boat owners would do, and that is to go over the boat with a fine tooth comb, so to speak.

.

I got to know some of the lads there. When I mentioned some of their negative press, one of the managers, said that most people who come to them know nothing about boats, they expect every boat to work perfectly, have flowers on the table and coffee ready to drink in the galley, and are disappointed, on leaving with their prized boat that things start to go wrong, Batteries that are nearly dead, fuel filters blocked etc, but they only find that out when they are going down the cut for some distance.

The new owners don't think to replace or check these things.

 

He did also mention, and i saw one boat come in on brokerage like it, the state of some of the boats that do come in. The one i saw was like a family had just walked off he boat 4 years ago and left it as it was, plates of well rotten food on the table, a filled fridge left closed, beds just left as they got up! Of coarse nobody had checked the boat over the years and frost had done a lot of damage, as did the water sloshing about under the floor producing loads of condensation. Not a pleasant sight or smell. Somehow Whilton has to sell it!

 

As always, if you don't know what your looking at, take someone who does with you.

 

As it is, I have a well found boat that is cruising the system continuously and I am as totally happy her as i am doing it!

 

Nipper

edited for muppetry!

Edited November 27, 2014 by nipper

[jollymoggy]

I bought mine from Venetian. They were very professional and gave me updates everyday as to what was happening such as what repairs were currently being carried out etc. They showed me how to do everything on the collection day, even a driving course. I didn't negotiate the price but I wanted a boat pretty quickly to be honest. I did like the way you can just browse all the boats and they give you the keys to look around. I just felt no pressure which is great imo.

[Lady Muck]

I've had half a dozen messages from London Boaters who have encountered problems after their purchase - some quite serious.

 

But also would attribute some of these issues to not knowing anything about boats. But let's face it, their pr and press isn't helping. They make it sound so easy, they only talk about the cheapness and convenience of being able to live in central London when personally I can't think of anything more inconvenient than living onboard in central London without a home mooring - it's like having another part time job! And getting used to a second hand boat that needs lots of repair work (because it's at that age) is seldom easy.

[Traveller]

Bought our first boat from Whlton (a Springer) many years ago and it served us very well indeed, although it was a bit of a project. Looked at Whilton re our subsequent boat which failed the survey, or should I say the surveyor stopped the survey as he was finding so many issues. We got our deposit back and walked away. And the surveyor generously reduced his fee by 50%.

[Lmcgrath87]

Feel slightly better now, we will be having an independent survey, and have some people to call on if there is one we do like the look of - ideally I want to find one local to me, but this is proving more tricky than I had thought.

 

I also need to get my current housing situation sorted before I get too ahead of myself!

 

[Mike Todd]

To be fair, I think that the onus is always on the seller to prepare the boat for sale - unlike in the car trade where the garage cleans the car up before offering it for sale. Certainly this was the case when ABNB, a very reputable broker, sold our last boat.

Are there any car sales places that are brokers?

[zenataomm]

I bought a stock boat from Whilton.

I negotiated a deal which was worth £4K in cash plus £3.5K in work (The work wouldn't have cost them £3.5K at cost, but was still worth that much to me).

 

When I arrived to pick it up they told me the gas fridge wasn't getting cold, would I like them to owe me a fridge or would I prefer money back?

I took the money as I'd already decided it was going in the first skip I saw (I hate gas fridges).

It also had a tiny inverter installed just about big enough to run a laptop or TV. I told them they could keep that, they then came back with a brand new mattress for the double berth, as a swop.

 

On the way home the charging light flickered, it turned out to be a loose fan belt which took me seconds.

The next day the exhaust sounded noisier and numerous rattles and vibrations made themselves known by Rugby.

 

The exhaust noise was a split in the flexy hose between the manifold and expansion box/silencer. Hooray for Gun Gum! ... and ... that was over 6 years ago, still fine.

The numerous rattles and vibrations were of course the usual Lister SR2 air cooling shrouds needing tightening.

 

This was my 8th. boat and I'm Lister trained, so those issues weren't any more irritating than an itchy armpit.

Whereas I can imagine to a total novice they could have been major issues and worrying.

I'm sure The Rescue people get called out for less.

 

Interestingly a year later I got a letter from their accounts department pointing out that my final payment was £4K less than their records show nor I had I paid for the £3.5K work commissioned, consequently they would be thrilled to receive my cheque for £7.5K at my earliest convenience (I bet they would be!)

 

I replied saying "Nice try, but no cigar" .. I immediately got a letter from them apologising and confirming I owned them Zero.

I've kept that letter!

I didn't find them particularly difficult or weasley, any more than I do car dealers.

 

I deal with them all assertively, and I leave emotion out of it. I know what to check, what to look for and approach the whole thing as a business proposition for both sides, If that all seems to be ok I make an offer subject to satisfactory survey.

If they agree to that I get it surveyed by my surveyor.

I attend the survey so I really understand what is what. Then I use the findings to renegotiate the final agreement.

 

The most I can lose is the cost of the survey.

 

You will hear on this forum comments that a surveyor isn't liable for his findings (or things he misses) I use my own surveyor, because I trust him, he explains as much as I want to know, he supplies with a BSC, his report gets me insurance and most of all he gives me the ammunition I need to get the best price I can.

[little duck!]

we got our current boat from Venetian 2 and a half years ago, only one small complaint. We had been led to believe that the seller was the previous owner when in fact the boat had been bought by venetian and they were the owners. This was used as a way of getting our offer higher than are original offer as they had to "ring the seller" anyway we got it for less than the asking price and have had very few problems considering the age of the boat. Next time we will ask to see proof of ownership but i wouldnt hesistate buying a boat from there again if the boat was right! Finding an engineer you trust however is another matter, other half can do lots but there have been occassions when we have needed someone and we found some to be a little bit expensive with work done being suspect.

Oh and we used an independent surveyor.

[bassplayer]

I looked at a boat at Whilton over 2 years ago. The advertised details showed that the boat had only just been blacked. I looked down the side of the hull and saw a good growth of algae just below the waterline. It looked like it had only been freshly blacked down to the waterline. Of course a mistake could have been made with advertised details, even so, I walked away....

[Alan de Enfield]

we got our current boat from Venetian 2 and a half years ago, only one small complaint. We had been led to believe that the seller was the previous owner when in fact the boat had been bought by venetian and they were the owners. ...............

 

And here the 'fun starts'

 

If the boat was being sold "in the course of a business' (ie owned by the broker) then it would be subject to the Sale Of Goods Act, and must be fit for pupose, and as described - so - if the details say it is a 1990 boat, service on XYZ date, blacked on 'abc', and that the engine, toilet, fire etc all work they MUST by law be accurate and truthfull, and any faults found subsequent to transfer of ownership must be rectified by the Broker, at their cost.

This does not apply to a consumer-to-consumer sale.

 

The problem comes when you have a survey, as the responsibilty of the seller is removed as any faults should have been 'found on inspection'

 

If buyer a boat being sold in the course of a business you have much more legal protection for rectifcation of faults if you DO NOT have a survey. If you have a survey, and the faults are nt found your legal recouse is with the surveyor.

 

Section 14(2): Quality – The Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994 introduced the requirement that goods be of a satisfactory quality. This section of the Act applies only to sellers who are acting in the course of a business. The Act sets out a list of criteria to be met for goods to be of a satisfactory quality. In order to satisfy that test, regard must be had to the following:

 

· Fitness for all the purposes for which goods of the kind in question are commonly supplied.

· Appearance and finish.

· Freedom from minor defects.

· Safety.

· Durability.

 

Buyers cannot expect a legal remedy in respect of

 

· Fair wear and tear;

· Misuse or accidental damage; or

· If they decide that they no longer want the item

 

Further, where defects or special uses have been specifically brought to a buyer’s attention, or where an inspection is carried out and a reasonable inspection of the goods would have revealed those defects, a buyer will not be able to rely on any of the above implied terms when arguing breach of this section. In some cases, therefore, a buyer who has not had the opportunity to carry out a reasonable inspection will be in a better position than one who has.

 

The section goes on to state that goods will be of a satisfactory quality if they meet the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory taking into account such things as any description given, the price paid and all other relevant considerations.

 

Sale of goods law generally and the requirement that goods be of a satisfactory quality applies equally to used or second-hand goods as well as new goods.

 

The requirement that goods be fit for all the purposes for which goods of that kind are commonly supplied significantly strengthens the consumer’s position. It may be possible to suggest, for example, that a television and video combination set would not meet the test of satisfactory quality where it was not possible to video one television channel whilst watching another. Arguably, one of the common purposes of buying a television and video together is the ability to watch one channel whilst taping another. So, unless the salesperson had specifically brought those characteristics to the attention of the consumer prior to purchase, it may be possible to argue that the goods were not of a satisfactory quality.

 

The reference to appearance and finish and freedom from minor defects is again subject to the test of reasonableness. A reasonable person would not expect used or second hand goods to be of the same appearance and finish as new goods. Similarly, goods may still satisfy the test of satisfactory quality notwithstanding a minor defect where a reasonable person would regard the defect so minor as to be insignificant.

 

The requirement of durability will not necessarily extend the ‘reasonable period of time’ (see below) within which consumers are entitled to reject faulty goods and claim a full refund. That would place an unreasonable burden on retailers where a fault did not become apparent until many months after purchase. However, because durability is now a specific requirement, the consumer will have a stronger right to claim damages for faulty goods, even though the fault may not have appeared until some months after purchase.

 

Buyers who are “consumers”

Goods will meet the test of satisfactory quality if they are of a standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory. Again, each case will be decided on its own facts. If goods are not of a satisfactory quality, or do not conform with the contract, that is to say, they are faulty, the consumer has a number of options available.

 

Until recently, the 1979 Act gave all buyers of faulty goods just 2 main remedies. To reject the goods outright and claim a full refund (plus damages, if appropriate) or bring a claim of damages for the cost of a repair. As with all claims based on contract in the UK, these rights are available for 6 years. Since 31 March 2003 where the buyer is a consumer, they have additional rights.

 

It would be good for anyone looking to buy a broker-owned boat to understand their rights.

 

This is why brokers will not 'own-up' to owning the boat.

[manxmike]

I bought "Cobweb" from Venetian Marina last year and am as happy as a pig in brown smelly stuff.

There have been a few minor issues - batteries and alternator needed replacing, other bits as the year has gone by, but no major surprises. Everything has been done by Alec, the engineer at Venetian at a reasonable cost, work done well.

The sales team have always been polite and helpful, any questions have been answered promptly.

The cafe at Venetian is a wonderful surprise, excellent food very very reasonably priced, the chandlery quite well stocked and prices are OK.

I have actually kept the boat moored at Venetian and will probably leave her there for the forseeable future!

When I bought I negotiated the price down to a respectable level.

I am not employed or paid by Venetian, I'm just a satisfied customer who believes in giving credit where it's due.

[David Mack]

 

It would be good for anyone looking to buy a broker-owned boat to understand their rights.

 

This is why brokers will not 'own-up' to owning the boat.

 

But surely knowingly misrepresenting the ownership of a boat they are offering for sale would also be an offence (whether or not a sale actually takes place)?