Installing a wood burner

[BRamsden]

Hello all!

 

I have recently bought a narrowboat and am planning on installing a wood burner.

I have worked out which burner I would like (well between 2) but need some advice on flue systems. The flue may run close to a window. I was going to look at an insulated flue system. I have been quoted around £600 for insulated flue system? Does this seem right? Will this mean my window will be ok from the heat? Other option is putting a bend in the flue so it doesn’t go close to the window. Is this the best option? 

Many thanks,

Bianca

[Boater Sam]

A new installation has to be with an insulated flue to comply with regs. But you can still put a bend in it.

[jonathanA]

2 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

A new installation has to be with an insulated flue to comply with regs. But you can still put a bend in it.

Are you sure about that ?  Thought ‘the regs’ didn’t apply to boats but are advisory ? 

 

But doesnt sound good to have a flue too close to a window 

Edited September 30, 2018 by jonathanA

[Rickent]

Thought insulated flue was only mandatory on new builds.

[ditchcrawler]

3 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

A new installation has to be with an insulated flue to comply with regs. But you can still put a bend in it.

Not on an old boat, only for RCD

[mrsmelly]

14 hours ago, BRamsden said:

Hello all!

 

I have recently bought a narrowboat and am planning on installing a wood burner.

I have worked out which burner I would like (well between 2) but need some advice on flue systems. The flue may run close to a window. I was going to look at an insulated flue system. I have been quoted around £600 for insulated flue system? Does this seem right? Will this mean my window will be ok from the heat? Other option is putting a bend in the flue so it doesn’t go close to the window. Is this the best option? 

Many thanks,

Bianca

How close is close? You dont need an insulated flue but you can have one if you like them. Fit a multifuel stove then you can burn other fuels as well as wood.

[Stilllearning]

Hi Bianca, and welcome to CWDF

Woodburners tend to be difficult to keep in overnight and it’s at about 6am that you will really want the boat warm, so perhaps a multifuel stove may be better? There are lots of good multifuel stoves around.

Get a bent flue to avoid the window, it’s not difficult to find a steel fabricator who will weld one up to your specifications. Do make sure you measure it right though! As said above, insulated flues are only required on newbuilt boats. Frankly, an uninsulated flue is better at keeping you warm, and cheaper.

[bizzard]

The term ''wood burner'' seems to be in general use by folk who are new to it, ''I hear it all the time'' when they probably mean multi fuel stove.  Heat from a flue pipe can be reduced considerably by bandaging it from head to foot with overlapping cut strips of a Fire Blanket.  Mummyfie it.   Curtains too can be made from fire blankets if they're a bit too near a heat source for comfort.

[Mac of Cygnet]

'Multifuel' is a compromise.  Woodburners have no grate, but burn on the floor of the stove, preferably on firebricks or a bed of ash.  This also applies to peat.  Other fuels require a grate.  I took the grate out of my small boat stove because I burn only wood.  Also, it is not true that it is difficult to keep a woodburner in overnight - I have no trouble doing that either with the boat stove or both the home stoves.  

HOWEVER many new woodburners are 'clean burn', which involves a high level air intake which is permanently open.  These I believe are more difficult to keep in overnight.

As to the flue next to the window - I would be concerned about whatever is used to cover the window - curtains, blinds.  A metal blind might be OK.

[BRamsden]

Thanks all, apologies it is a multi fuel stove that I am looking into. I am keen to just put the bend into the flue so it shouldn’t be an issue and totally agree that the heat from the flue is something that I want. I did check and as it isn’t a new build it doesn’t have to be an insulated flue, it’s optional. Thanks again.

 

[Bee]

You will get a lot of heat from the flue, in fact you need to be v. careful where it passes through the ceiling as many installations are quite good re. heat shields around the stove itself and not so good at the top of the flue. Coal / smokeless would be my choice of fuel to avoid tarry deposits in the flue and in my experience it is more controllable.

[lampini]

I cannot recommend the Salamander Hobbit stove highly enough - used just with coal it is economical, warm and easy to keep in overnight. For wood, we just increase the top draft and use decent well-dried wood. Last winter it did a 57' boat fine in -9c. 

 

http://salamanderstoves.com/the-hobbit-stove/

 

 

Edited October 2, 2018 by lampini
linky

[The Grumpy Triker]

Hi folks, am interested in this topic...not least because of the pain and anguish of decisions I made when buying my multifuel / wood burning stove back in Nov 2017....My Squirrel ...which was chosen after 3 months of hesitation, contemplation & insecurity .....looks luvverly in the bow corner of my boat ...on the right side for bridges.... BUT!!!.... following a run of personal events in and around the family I never got any further as it is just sat on the hearth surrounded by fireboard but minus one important factor, - apparently a flue is recommended!!?? ?.....Is there anyone you gurus would recommend for Flue design and installation generally?....or better to go through local marina contacts?

....I would like to get mine in despite being a push financially and regardless of happy in cold....I just don't want that damp smell coming back.

....on that note .....any recommendations for low energy electric heaters that you can leave on for a few days whilst away?

[rusty69]

I always install a straight flue on ours, saves messing around with welding and easier to clean.

 

Oil filled rads are good and safe to keep the chill off.

[The Grumpy Triker]

2 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I always install a straight flue on ours, saves messing around with welding and easier to clean.

 

Oil filled rads are good and safe to keep the chill off.

Hey there Rusty .... how's you!?

 

Need someone to help me I think as never dealt with fire rope etc. & just a bit nervous at cutting a blooming big hole in the roof myself without real knowledge of flue design....fix the stove in place then chalk a hole & cut it?...sealants, collars, angle on roof?

...

Not got oil rads on the boat & eberspracher heater system is like a teenager in the mornings...every now & then up it jumps, smiling and off working as required .....otherwise...roll a dice ?

[rusty69]

17 minutes ago, The Grumpy Triker said:

Hey there Rusty .... how's you!?

 

Need someone to help me I think as never dealt with fire rope etc. & just a bit nervous at cutting a blooming big hole in the roof myself without real knowledge of flue design....fix the stove in place then chalk a hole & cut it?...sealants, collars, angle on roof?

...

Not got oil rads on the boat & eberspracher heater system is like a teenager in the mornings...every now & then up it jumps, smiling and off working as required .....otherwise...roll a dice ?

Good ta Mr Grumpy.

 

I don't blame you. Cutting a hole in your roof is a daunting prospect. I cut a hole in ours a couple of years ago to install a squirrel flue pipe.Probably better approach a local yard unless you are confident.I used a hole saw, but you can use a jigsaw, or even the thousand hole method.

 

We had a guy measure up for a welded flue , he jad a simple jig for getting the angles correct.It consisted of straight bit in the middle with two shorter adjustable angled bits at each end.He didn't do it in the end.

 

The deck collar,in our case is thru bolted,and gunged, but an angled packing piece may be required beneath.

 

Hi temperature silicone and fire rope , at least at the stove collar, and same at roof collar (although high temp silicone not necessarily required there).

 

With a straight flue, you would have to take into account that the angle created will clear the two collars sufficiently and not be too close to internal woodwork.

 

On second thoughts, get someone to do it, it will be much easier

 

ETA,Sorry assumed electric heater = plugged into mains.

 

 

Edited October 5, 2018 by rusty69

[MtB]

12 hours ago, rusty69 said:

ETA,Sorry assumed electric heater = plugged into mains.

 

Just to reinforce, this is the ONLY sort of electric heater to use. Using battery power to heat a boat (even just a little bit) is a recipe for certain battery disaster. 

[Alan de Enfield]

13 hours ago, The Grumpy Triker said:

.any recommendations for low energy electric heaters that you can leave on for a few days whilst away?

If you are 'talking' running off batteries then don't do it.

A 100 watt 'mains' light bulb will draw about 10 amps from the batteries (via an inverter) so that's 240Ah per day - do you have a 5000Ah battery bank (50 x 100Ah batteries) to support that current for a 'few days' ?

 

If you are connected to a shoreline mains supply then its a whole different ball-game.

I have 2x large (150w) Tubular greenhouse heaters in the engine room, on timers so a few hours over night, a few hours in the morning and a few hours in the evening. Keeps the frost out and the damp at bay.

Last Winter they cost me £1 per day to run (based on 15p per Kw)

Edited October 6, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[Johny London]

To both of you installing stoves, my advice would be to go for a twin wall flue - despite people saying that you get more heat from a single wall, that is not necessarily the case because the twin wall flue improves the performance of the stove. http://www.tigerboats.co.uk/images/forum/insulated-flues.pdf

When I did mine, I priced up all the various bits and pieces needed - stove connector, straight section, angles, roof joiner pipe and cowel etc etc, and it was quite expensive - given that any error in my calculations could have caused extra delay/cost. So reluctantly I stumped up for the Morso flue kit - it was £500 from Midland, which sounds like crazy money I know, but as I said already, it wasn't all that much cheaper picking up separate parts. I subsequently saw the same thing for £350 somewhere online, infact Kings lock have it here: http://www.kingslock.co.uk/product/morso-twin-wall-flue-kit-3250. As you can see it has offsets so you should be able to get it clear of a window.

Cutting the hole in the metal of the roof is easy - I went round nice and slowly with a jigsaw. Took a few minutes. Use high temp silicon to seal, although all silicon is good with heat (for a couple years until it dries right out!).

Lastly, there is a very good document around, regarding stove installation - http://www.soliftec.com/Boat Stoves 1-page.pdf

Hurry up - winters on its way!

[rusty69]

I would add, if you do decide to cut your own roof hole.Check you are clear of any internal wiring and cabin stiffeners prior to making any cut, and that you have left room for the collar thru-bolts.

Edited October 6, 2018 by rusty69

[The Grumpy Triker]

14 hours ago, rusty69 said:

Good ta Mr Grumpy.

 

I don't blame you. Cutting a hole in your roof is a daunting prospect. I cut a hole in ours a couple of years ago to install a squirrel flue pipe.Probably better approach a local yard unless you are confident.I used a hole saw, but you can use a jigsaw, or even the thousand hole method.

 

We had a guy measure up for a welded flue , he jad a simple jig for getting the angles correct.It consisted of straight bit in the middle with two shorter adjustable angled bits at each end.He didn't do it in the end.

 

The deck collar,in our case is thru bolted,and gunged, but an angled packing piece may be required beneath.

 

Hi temperature silicone and fire rope , at least at the stove collar, and same at roof collar (although high temp silicone not necessarily required there).

 

With a straight flue, you would have to take into account that the angle created will clear the two collars sufficiently and not be too close to internal woodwork.

 

On second thoughts, get someone to do it, it will be much easier

 

ETA,Sorry assumed electric heater = plugged into mains.

 

 

? That was my end reaction every time I thought about it....I like doing my own work, no matter what, and like to think it will all look reasonably ok....fitting new mushroom vents yep...although I learnt a lesson or two on that one as well, like don't assume all holes are jib cut and exactly on 90 degrees to each other.....but cutting a hole in a sloping roof, even with the right tools...just makes me a tad nervous. I'll have to ask about & get some quotes, may end up having to do it myself as time is running out now.

2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Just to reinforce, this is the ONLY sort of electric heater to use. Using battery power to heat a boat (even just a little bit) is a recipe for certain battery disaster. 

?

[Johny London]

Yes good point - I advise doing the inner hole first, because this will also be easier to work out where it goes. Then just drill a centre hole through the roof to act as a marker for cutting the metal.

[The Grumpy Triker]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If you are 'talking' running off batteries then don't do it.

A 100 watt 'mains' light bulb will draw about 10 amps from the batteries (via an inverter) so that's 240Ah per day - do you have a 5000Ah battery bank (50 x 100Ah batteries) to support that current for a 'few days' ?

 

If you are connected to a shoreline mains supply then its a whole different ball-game.

I have 2x large (150w) Tubular greenhouse heaters in the engine room, on timers so a few hours over night, a few hours in the morning and a few hours in the evening. Keeps the frost out and the damp at bay.

Last Winter they cost me £1 per day to run (based on 15p per Kw)

Cheers Mike & Alan - yep am on shoreline now for the winter as I have to go where the work is, can't be fussy with an ex and 3 youngish kiddies to house & feed.

 

As mentioned the radiators are pretty useless at the moment and removed the one from the lounge are as that is where the stove is....good idea on the timers, always forget about that but that's pretty good economy as well, I wouldn't need much more than that even without a stove being honest.

[The Grumpy Triker]

40 minutes ago, Johny London said:

To both of you installing stoves, my advice would be to go for a twin wall flue - despite people saying that you get more heat from a single wall, that is not necessarily the case because the twin wall flue improves the performance of the stove. http://www.tigerboats.co.uk/images/forum/insulated-flues.pdf

When I did mine, I priced up all the various bits and pieces needed - stove connector, straight section, angles, roof joiner pipe and cowel etc etc, and it was quite expensive - given that any error in my calculations could have caused extra delay/cost. So reluctantly I stumped up for the Morso flue kit - it was £500 from Midland, which sounds like crazy money I know, but as I said already, it wasn't all that much cheaper picking up separate parts. I subsequently saw the same thing for £350 somewhere online, infact Kings lock have it here: http://www.kingslock.co.uk/product/morso-twin-wall-flue-kit-3250. As you can see it has offsets so you should be able to get it clear of a window.

Cutting the hole in the metal of the roof is easy - I went round nice and slowly with a jigsaw. Took a few minutes. Use high temp silicon to seal, although all silicon is good with heat (for a couple years until it dries right out!).

Lastly, there is a very good document around, regarding stove installation - http://www.soliftec.com/Boat Stoves 1-page.pdf

Hurry up - winters on its way!

? ...yep time is a ticking....my real worries are getting the angle cut right in the roof, and getting the sealant right...I.e. making sure it has room for expansion and contraction at the stove.

 

I've built the hearth and fire-board surround in line with the soflitec recommendations (covering it in thin copper sheeting not tiles and will be about 600mm from the bow window and double that from the nearest main cabin window.

 

I feel like I'm chickening out and don't like doing that, but the price of the flue kit (yep will stick to twin walled) is better than I expected....did that include the ring collar for the chimney?

[Johny London]

Yes when I got my flue kit it had absolutely everything - even brackets for the stove and fuzzy felt stuff for sealing the collar to the stove.

 

Edited to add: It's not a very sturdy ring collar, just a plate of metal with a hole (and two fixing holes) and a bit that goes through that you have to seal around. But, it's ok.

Edited October 6, 2018 by Johny London