BSS Rant

[larryjc]

So just half way through my first BSS.  Half way because I'm in the middle of a load of rectification.  Don't get me wrong some of the points raised are pretty valid.  However, I've been mucking about in boats for almost fifty years, I've sailed the world and lived on my own sailing boat for years.  I was also the safety inspector for a trans altlantinc rally so have a vague idea of what might be important.   Comparing the safety rquirements for boats on canals to those on the argualbly more dangerous windy/deep/rough/tidal stuff is like chalk and cheese.  In fact anyone can build a yacht in their garden and go off to sea with absolutely no safety standards applied or checked by anyone.  Buy a narrow boat and the drain from the gas locker must be at least 16 mm in diameter amongst a list of other items that took two and half hours to check .  I'm not arguing that the BSS is a bad idea - I actually think its a good thing but to me its seems to concentrate on some pretty odd and pedantic issues.  For example gas safety - loads of requirements for gas lockers and piping all quite rightly to stop the boat blowing up.  But no mention of gas alarms.  I've never sailed a yacht without one fitted and to me they are the ultimate check because it will tell you when the danger is actually present.  My BSS examiner had only vaguely heard of them and the BSS makes no mention.  (you might gather that most of my rectification is to my gas system!!).  Yes I know that commerically built yachts have to be built to the RCD and offshore category rules but unless they are used for commercial gain they need never be inspected again.

I just wonder how we have these amazingly specific sets of rules for boats that do three miles an hour on water filled ditches yet you can (attempt to) sail around the world in a bathtub and no one gives a monkey's.  Right rant over and I feel better now.

 

[TheBiscuits]

Because the stated aims of the BSS are safety for the boat next to yours and reducing water pollution risk.  If your transatlantic bathtub explodes, no one (except you!) will notice.  If the boat breasted up to you explodes, you won't be a happy bunny.

From the BSS website:

Its purpose is to help minimise the risk of boat fires, explosions, or pollution harming visitors to the inland waterways, the waterways' workforce and any other users and to help protect adjacent property, as it is to these parties that the Navigation Authorities may have duties in law. The purpose is equally to contribute to the common goal to make the waterways a safe, attractive and pleasant environment for all.

The BSS helps control the hazards which are introduced by boats which have been inadequately constructed or maintained or hazards introduced by boat owners who misuse the boat's equipment.

 

[larryjc]

Just now, TheBiscuits said:

Because the stated aims of the BSS are safety for the boat next to yours and reducing water pollution risk.  If your transatlantic bathtub explodes, no one (except you!) will notice.  If the boat breasted up to you explodes, you won't be a happy bunny.

From the BSS website:

Its purpose is to help minimise the risk of boat fires, explosions, or pollution harming visitors to the inland waterways, the waterways' workforce and any other users and to help protect adjacent property, as it is to these parties that the Navigation Authorities may have duties in law. The purpose is equally to contribute to the common goal to make the waterways a safe, attractive and pleasant environment for all.

The BSS helps control the hazards which are introduced by boats which have been inadequately constructed or maintained or hazards introduced by boat owners who misuse the boat's equipment.

 

Yes I get that.  But have you seen how many yachts there are in marinas these days ? And that logic should apply to them too and it doesn't.

[rusty69]

Just now, larryjc said:

Yes I get that.  But have you seen how many yachts there are in marinas these days ? And that logic should apply to them too and it doesn't.

Presumably because many come from different countries. Try applying a single standard to all those boats.

[OldGoat]

The BSS is based on two premises:-

1. To prevent you being a danger to others - you're at liberty to blow yourself up - but no-one else.

2. It must be easy for folks with little training to act as inspectors. The easy way to do that is to set rules rather than leave it to judgement. 

[bizzard]

Everyone should have a Canary. 

[larryjc]

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

Presumably because many come from different countries. Try applying a single standard to all those boats.

Actually other countries do apply rules to yachts - the French in particular so it can be done -its just that we don't, only to inland water craft.

[MtB]

1 minute ago, bizzard said:

Everyone should have a Canary. 

 

Everyone should have a spare canary too, in case the first one dies. 

[larryjc]

3 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

2. It must be easy for folks with little training to act as inspectors. The easy way to do that is to set rules rather than leave it to judgement. 

If that were the case it would be just as easy for the owner to preckeck his boat from the BBS list - I tried it and got lost after the first page.

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Everyone should have a spare canary too, in case the first one dies. 

If I ever get a canary, I shall name him Sean.

[larryjc]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Everyone should have a spare canary too, in case the first one dies. 

Ah but of what size and breed and what training regime have they been qualified to, and what size perch should they have, what about the specs for thier cage, the list would be endless.

 

[OldGoat]

1 minute ago, larryjc said:

If that were the case it would be just as easy for the owner to preckeck his boat from the BBS list - I tried it and got lost after the first page.

You're right!

The original idea got binned years ago - what irks me is that the details are hidden from you, the boatowner. The secret is to find an examiner who knows the rules and can apply them to the real world.

To be reasonable ( ?why) boats are not like cars where there's a certain amount of standardization - each boat is different.

[TheBiscuits]

32 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

what irks me is that the details are hidden from you, the boatowner.

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/268789/ecp-private-boats-ed3_rev2_apr2015_public_final.pdf

Which details do you think are hidden?

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, OldGoat said:

 

2. It must be easy for folks with little training to act as inspectors. The easy way to do that is to set rules rather than leave it to judgement. 

But that is the problem, the one who uses his judgement and not what the rules say and not what you fitted you boat out to

[larryjc]

13 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/268789/ecp-private-boats-ed3_rev2_apr2015_public_final.pdf

Which details do you think are hidden?

Thats what I looked at prior but there is so much subjectivity and minute detail - for example define 'good condition'  - you are totally at the mercy of the examiner's opinion.  Which is why I decided to just let the examiner do his thing and find out rather than try and second guess him.  When I did trans atlantic rally safety inspections we produced a list of defined criteria that was easily understood - for example - a liferaft to a list of approved specs and serviced within a set timescale - no requirement to 'assess'anything.

[rusty69]

5 minutes ago, larryjc said:

Which is why I decided to just let the examiner do his thing and find out rather than try and second guess him

I've been doing that for years. Easier to rectify the fails than faff about.

Same with mots on my car. I used to check lights, brakes etc etc. Don't even bother with that anymore.

[mrsmelly]

1 hour ago, rusty69 said:

Presumably because many come from different countries. Try applying a single standard to all those boats.

Didnt the eu try that one on? You would have to be a member though I suppose....................oh hang on a minute..............

[Rickent]

Doesn't matter how much you rant about it, you've still got to make it safe. 

My Bss examination was last friday and never had any problems, but if any had flagged up I would just get on and sort them no matter how trivial they seemed. Unfortunately you cannot take any risk with gas and if the Bss man says it aint safe then there is a good chance it aint safe.

[PD1964]

You say it's your first BSS, Is the boat a new build or have you just fitted the Gas system and was it signed off by a qualified Boat Safe fitter?

Edited March 25, 2018 by PD1964

[MtB]

7 minutes ago, Rickent said:

Doesn't matter how much you rant about it, you've still got to make it safe. 

My Bss examination was last friday and never had any problems, but if any had flagged up I would just get on and sort them no matter how trivial they seemed. Unfortunately you cannot take any risk with gas and if the Bss man says it aint safe then there is a good chance it aint safe.

 

Would you mind defining 'safe' please? Because in a lot of circumstances it is a matter of opinion. 

Many thanks.

[Momac]

2 hours ago, larryjc said:

........it would be just as easy for the owner to preckeck his boat from the BBS list - I tried it and got lost after the first page.

Doesn't sound like you tried the reading bit very hard.

Not much if any difference between sea motorboats and inland waterways  boats with regard to gas  systems. Possibly an extra fire extinguisher ot two and a fire blanket required for the BSS.

 

 

[Victor Vectis]

2 hours ago, rusty69 said:

If I ever get a canary, I shall name him Sean.

Shurly shum mushtake?

[Alan de Enfield]

17 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Doesn't sound like you tried the reading bit very hard.

Not much if any difference between sea motorboats and inland waterways  boats with regard to gas  systems. Possibly an extra fire extinguisher ot two and a fire blanket required for the BSS.

 

 

There are no 'requirements' (that have to be complied with) for sea-going boats regards gas systems - no one would 'blink an eye' if you had a portable camping stove and a gas bottle in the galley, or a super-ser heater & gas bottle in the saloon.

No requirement for fire extinguishers and blankets either.

If one has a boat one is assumed to be responsible for your actions, if one has a sewer-tube 'nanny' will look after you.

[ditchcrawler]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

If one has a boat one is assumed to be responsible for your actions, if one has a sewer-tube 'nanny' will look after you.

Maybe its because if you are not responsible for your actions you don't tend to last to long

[roland elsdon]

The problem is people use narrowboats as houses... and play with stuff they dont understand, yet the standards miss out on basic like co2 monitors and smoke alarms.

back in 1983 we told our next door neighbour he was endangering himself and us with his boat and he just became a abusive. Eventually the inevitable happened and the dodgy electrics caught fire under the back deck  which had no bulkhead to the main cabin. The wooden back deck caught, he was inside and the front doors were barricaded shut with two big gas tanks. He was inside portholled boat on fire under the only exit with no extinguishers. We got him out ( on a mooring with mains water and hoses) with only minor smoke inhallation , but the boat had battery chargers hard wired in and no 12 master switches. So getting the electrics off was a nightmare. No coc in those days...