BSS Rant

[Machpoint005]

Isn't the whole point of the BSS, as regards us mere mortals, that it's a set of rules we have to comply with. The inspector is like the referee - he/she is the sole arbiter of fact and interpretation of the law. Full stop.

If we don't like it we can always play a different game altogether. 

[Rickent]

2 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

Isn't the whole point of the BSS, as regards us mere mortals, that it's a set of rules we have to comply with. The inspector is like the referee - he/she is the sole arbiter of fact and interpretation of the law. Full stop.

If we don't like it we can always play a different game altogether. 

As I said in a previous post , the only opinion that matters is that of the inspector checking your boat.

If you don't agree with him get someone else in.

[haggis]

Personally, I am quite happy with the Boat Safety Scheme as kelpie passed last week!

Haggis

Mike, the BSS regulations may have changed but in the copy of the BSS manual which we have it says that the cut off valve must be situated outside the accommodation space and as close to the cylinders as possible. If a fire fighter finds the marker telling him where the cut off valve is, he won't have far to look for the cylinders. |I think we'll call a truce on this discussion :-) 

[MtB]

1 hour ago, haggis said:

Personally, I am quite happy with the Boat Safety Scheme as kelpie passed last week!

Haggis

Mike, the BSS regulations may have changed but in the copy of the BSS manual which we have it says that the cut off valve must be situated outside the accommodation space and as close to the cylinders as possible. If a fire fighter finds the marker telling him where the cut off valve is, he won't have far to look for the cylinders. |I think we'll call a truce on this discussion :-) 

 

True, but I still hold that any firefighter would find the cylinders just as quickly, whether or not there is a little notice next to the cut-off valve  

[Mike Todd]

15 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

 

How do you know which canary is correctly calibrated, though?

General engineering/scientific principle is never have two measurements of anything - either believe in one or have at least three.

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

General engineering/scientific principle is never have two measurements of anything - either believe in one or have at least three.

 

Yes but believing in one is what lead to all the trouble for me!

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, haggis said:

Mike, the BSS regulations may have changed but in the copy of the BSS manual which we have it says that the cut off valve must be situated outside the accommodation space and as close to the cylinders as possible. If a fire fighter finds the marker telling him where the cut off valve is, he won't have far to look for the cylinders.

On our boat the gas cylinder is on the back deck inside the 'helm seat', the shut off valve is inside a cupboard, inside the saloon. A sticker is (now) attached to the cupboard door.

It passed its BSS with the existing set up but WITHOUT the sticker on the cupboard door.

As another 'label issue' :

As we have very little fixed ventilation we have a sticker on the kitchen window saying "Open window when using cooking appliances", this meets the BSS requirements for boats capable of using 'tidal waters'.

Edited March 26, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[WotEver]

11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

As we have very little fixed ventilation we have a sticker on the kitchen window saying "Open window when using cooking appliances", this meets the BSS requirements for boats capable of using 'tidal waters'.

I had to ensure the Gas Safe inspector who checked our house that we opened the back door whenever we use all six burners on the gas hob. As we never use all six burners at the same time it wasn’t exactly a lie...

[Momac]

4 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Its not 'unreasonable', but 'reasonableness' is not the test is it?

The test is whether it renders the boat a risk to passers by or other boats. 

If in the case of a fire it helps shut off the gas a few seconds earlier the marking of gas shut off  and the cylinder could well help protect other boats or people.

[MtB]

1 minute ago, MartynG said:

If in the case of a fire it helps shut off the gas a few seconds earlier the marking of gas shut off  and the cylinder could well help protect other boats or people.

 

A lot of 'if's going on here. Is there actually any evidence?

[haggis]

27 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

On our boat the gas cylinder is on the back deck inside the 'helm seat', the shut off valve is inside a cupboard, inside the saloon. A sticker is (now) attached to the cupboard door.

It passed its BSS with the existing set up but WITHOUT the sticker on the cupboard door.

As another 'label issue' :

As we have very little fixed ventilation we have a sticker on the kitchen window saying "Open window when using cooking appliances", this meets the BSS requirements for boats capable of using 'tidal waters'.

Just looked at the BSS manual on line and the bit on our old copy has changed to "LPG system shut‐off valves, or their means of operation, must be installed in a readily accessible position".  Nothing about being near the cylinders or outwith the accommodatin.

haggis

[Big Bob W]

Whilst on BSS labelling requirements:

"The specific fuel type in use must be correctly and clearly marked on or adjacent to all fuel filling points"

OK, makes sense from an operational point of view, but is that really a safety issue?? Just last week I attached one myself in readiness for BSS next month - is the boat any safer for it??

Edited March 26, 2018 by Big Bob W

[Horace42]

Being an engineer (retired), I look after my boat and keep it in a fully working, fit and safe condition in accordance with the appropriate regulations. I don't need an examiner to tell me my boat is safe.

I know it sounds arrogant, but it is only loads of pipes and cables and equipment and joints to check for leaks and security - and additionally to the BSS, making sure that the roof, doors, windows and vents are rainproof - and the bilge and engine bay are completely dry.

Unfortunately for me, CRT wont take my word for it - they want a signed report by an approved examiner - so I call one in - I am getting too old to worry.

[MtB]

59 minutes ago, Big Bob W said:

Whilst on BSS labelling requirements:

"The specific fuel type in use must be correctly and clearly marked on or adjacent to all fuel filling points"

OK, makes sense from an operational point of view, but is that really a safety issue?? Just last week I attached one myself in readiness for BSS next month - is the boat any safer for it??

 

If your boat hasn't blown up, your new labels must be working...

[larryjc]

7 hours ago, Murflynn said:

 

I have fitted out 3 boats whilst keeping the BSS requirements uppermost in my mind, and have never felt there was any scope for an inspector to make subjective judgments. ...... anyone who thinks differently needs to get on with fixing the questionable areas so there is no doubt. .......  for a sewer tube built to modern standards that should not be a problem.

OP seems to be an angry young (?) man - one minute the regulations are pedantic, next minute they are inadequately specified (allowing scope for subjective judgments) and at the end of the day the rules are too difficult to read and comprehend.   ...............  that doesn't seem to be consistent with the claim that he was involved in checking boats for Transat safety ........  and by the way, if there were no written rules then how did he manage to check safety without m,aking subjective judgments.    

This 65 year old 'angry'  man was merely making the point about ludicrously different standards between sea going craft and ditch crawlers.  Fitting out boats/building new ones - I suspect the RCD for yachts is very much the same and builders will have to comply to get an RCD certificate.  However those deep and exacting standards are not retrospectively applied every four years to yachts.  It seems to me that the BBS standards are really those that apply to new build.  Maybe a slightly simpler and more pragmatic set of checks would be more relevant.

As for the trans atlantic rally - as there are no rules at all for these we decided to use those for Internation Offshore Racing and modify them to remove the ones only relevant to actual racing.  This is what other rallies have done and shows that we as organsiers exercised a duty of care.  That said there was no legal reason to do so.  There is no subectivity in counting lifejackets and liferafts and ensuring they have been serviced and are in date.  Nor is there in looking up the mast to see a radar reflector. I certainly didn't check the fuel pipes to the engine to see what condition they were in, nor did I measure the diameter of the vent pipe from the gas locker and ensure it was correct in accordance with the amount of gas bottles that were there - that would just have been silly..................................................................................

[MtB]

28 minutes ago, larryjc said:

It seems to me that the BBS standards are really those that apply to new build.

 

Not at all. The BSS checks are trivial majorly lacking compared to the RCD regulations which a new boat must meet. 

[Ex Brummie]

21 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Everyone should have a spare canary too, in case the first one dies. 

Every one should have three canaries so that you can check and average their calibration. These would be Smart Canaries.

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Ex Brummie said:

Every one should have three canaries so that you can check and average their calibration. These would be Smart Canaries.

Would they require Smart Cauges?

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Ex Brummie said:

Every one should have three canaries so that you can check and average their calibration. These would be Smart Canaries.

 

I can't gauge whether you are havin' a larf or not!

[Tumshie]

7 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Would they require Smart Cauges?

You don't put squirrels in cages, that's canar...... oh no - dyslexic moment.  

Edited March 26, 2018 by Tumshie

[rusty69]

Just now, Tumshie said:

You don't put squirrels in cages, that's canar...... oh no - dyslexic moment.  

I've got two squirrels in a box.They would keep me nuts warm if I had any!

[Tumshie]

13 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I've got two squirrels in a box.They would keep me nuts warm if I had any!

I may be a Tumshie but I'm still a lady (sort of) so I don't want to discuss your squirrels.

Edited March 26, 2018 by Tumshie

[rusty69]

Just now, Tumshie said:

I may be a Tumshie but I'm still a lady (sort of) so I don't want to discuss your squirrels.

But if you keep your nuts in a box they should be safe. 

Oh ok. For many years I only had one squirrel in a box,but fitted a second one a fews years back,so now have two onboard.

Great for roasting chestnuts.

[Tumshie]

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

Oh ok. For many years I only had one squirrel in a box,but fitted a second one a fews years back,so now have two onboard.

Great for roasting chestnuts.

I know, Mr Rusty. Roasty toasty Squirrels. 

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, Tumshie said:

I know, Mr Rusty. Roasty toasty Squirrels. 

Oh no,I don't think roasting or toasting squirrels would be a good idea.