Trad v Semi-Trad v Cruiser!!....Fight Night!!

[noddyboater]

I would suggest trying all the options before making any expensive decisions. Underway as well, not just tied up in a marina. As Mike has said the difference to a days cruising on a fully traditional boat is quite surprising if you haven't experienced it. Everything is calmer, none of that buzzing under your feet, you can hear the birds singing.. 

Another bonus with that kind of boat, (dare I say it?) is they're often- not always- put together by boat builders and not steel fabrication firms so handling is improved.

[Dave Payne]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

How does that happen then? I reckon you gain 7ft of cabin space called the engine room!

Back cabin and engine room add up to what, 15ft?

Waste of space.

Keep your engine under your feet, out the back, behind a bulkhead where it belongs.

[OldGoat]

Semi-trads - a note of caution. When semis were the new kid on the block we hired one in the expectation that it would be more comfortable for the crew than a cruiser stern. We were very disappointed that the tumblehome made it very uncomfortable to sit as the side decks caught you in the small of the back. We tried two boats - but from the same company and both were the same. Another consideration is that it's difficult to work on the engine - including maintenance because you only have narrow access to it.

Napton NBs solved the seating problem by replacing the cabin sides with a lower rail - but I don't think many owners would appreciate that feature (somewhat ugly...)

There is no absolute solution, each depends on what use you make of the boat.

[The Grumpy Triker]

On 03/07/2017 at 19:42, rusty69 said:

Maximum internal space,no rainwater ingress. 

 

Can you guess what we have? 

Ummmm...let me think 

23 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

I have had all three designs and I still prefer cruiser by far but there is no definitive answer to the question unlike bogs which obviously have to be cassette or porta bog.

...I'm. It biting! ......atiss......pump out....ue - bless me 

[Starcoaster]

One thing I also think is that a trad has to have trad controls/ speedwheel and gear lever... A morse control in a trad always feels incredibly weird to me, but that may again be down to my having learned to steer and doing most of my boating on a trad-trad, and preferring trad controls as a result.

Another potential issue with some cruiser sterns (mine specifically) is that in order to reach the morse controls, you have to lean sideways and stretch for it, which in turn means you can't adjust and watch what is happening ahead of you simultaneously. While making adjustments is usually quick in and of itself, it is a potential ball-ache because making adjustments is usually in response to something happening up ahead, which may require prompt or fine-tuned corrections in which case not keeping your eye on things simultaneously can affect how well you can do this. I accept that this is not the case on all cruiser sterns though.

[The Grumpy Triker]

20 hours ago, DaveP said:

Socialising - towpath or pub.  No need to stay on the boat, and the last thing you need whilst helming is others getting in the tiller arc - they can stay down the pointy end listening to each other as one revels in favourite choons on the ghetto blaster.  So a trad for me.

[The Grumpy Triker]

10 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

Richard (RLWP) pointed out in another thread that the trad stern is an historic aberration, what other type of boat has the cabin in the tiller arc and in the way of all the bits you need to get at? I'd only go for a trad if it was done properly, like MtB describes - and my how easy it would be to get at the engine then!

Cruiser stern depends on how it's done - Lutine has one and whilst we can gather on the back deck (all two of us on the occasions I'm not alone) there is no seating, and putting the folding chair up anywhere seems to be in the way when moving

Ripple had a semi trad, that was good, seating where it wasn't in the way, 2 or 3 in comfort and dogs and children, when visiting, could be on the back deck and be safe. Engine access was awful though

Juno has a proper cruiser stern, wrap around seat at the back, socket for a table, canopy, the layout is made possible by wheel steering. Outboard is a bit of a pain because it's behind the bench - everything is a compromise I guess 

If specifying my own build I'd be very tempted with cruiser and wheel steering, even in a 70 footer... buying a second hand narrow boat my preference (in this order) would be semi-trad, cruiser, trad with engine room forward of back cabin. I don't think I'd want a modern "trad" at all

Unless of course I'm buying a cruiser, in which case a big version of what Juno has, with a quiet inboard diesel would be lovely...

Hadn't even considered wheel steering on an nb...I do like the feel of tiller in hand, as the sweeping arc sort of feels good, not sure how....probably because it is as the dreams go but to gain the space and flexibility it is a consideration.

[The Grumpy Triker]

7 minutes ago, Starcoaster said:

One thing I also think is that a trad has to have trad controls/ speedwheel and gear lever... A morse control in a trad always feels incredibly weird to me, but that may again be down to my having learned to steer and doing most of my boating on a trad-trad, and preferring trad controls as a result.

Another potential issue with some cruiser sterns (mine specifically) is that in order to reach the morse controls, you have to lean sideways and stretch for it, which in turn means you can't adjust and watch what is happening ahead of you simultaneously. While making adjustments is usually quick in and of itself, it is a potential ball-ache because making adjustments is usually in response to something happening up ahead, which may require prompt or fine-tuned corrections in which case not keeping your eye on things simultaneously can affect how well you can do this. I accept that this is not the case on all cruiser sterns though.

Gap in the market for wi-fi control biputton on the tiller arm to control revs, forward and reverse  ....don't worry about wi-if availability as everyone will have 9G in next few years...with special satellite direction controls as back-up ....Guaranteed by <insert name of your choice> party! 

Just now, The Grumpy Triker said:

Gap in the market for wi-fi control biputton on the tiller arm to control revs, forward and reverse  ....don't worry about wi-if availability as everyone will have 9G in next few years...with special satellite direction controls as back-up ....Guaranteed by <insert name of your choice> party! 

Either that or a long stick with grippy hand feature

[rusty69]

12 minutes ago, The Grumpy Triker said:

Gap in the market for wi-fi control biputton on the tiller arm to control revs, forward and reverse  ....don't worry about wi-if availability as everyone will have 9G in next few years...with special satellite direction controls as back-up ....Guaranteed by <insert name of your choice> party! 

12 minutes ago, The Grumpy Triker said:

 

[rgreg]

Engine access doesn't need to be a problem with a semi trad. Mine has a fully removable deck cover which means you can actually stand in the engine bay with loads of room to work. I'm happy with the semi trad as it gives a seating area with storage, good engine access, and a bit of protection from the elements. Plus, I think they look better than a cruiser stern.

[mark99]

27 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

 

 

Naughty - That was a complete failure from memory.

[rusty69]

Just now, mark99 said:

 

Naughty - That was a complete failure from memory.

Doesn't look too comfy either!

[mark99]

http://www.fernwooddesigns.co.uk/blogwhitefield2.aspx

 

 

 

[WotEver]

Whatever happened to Whitefield? Last I heard was she was for sale but that was 7 years ago. 

[Rob-M]

We have a trad stern with oversized hatch so two of us can stand there. Engine is under the floor not in a separate room and morse control not speedwheel and gear wheel/rod. I do steer proper trad trads though with engine room and proper controls. Whilst I like the engine room I'm not convinced it is a must for a leisure boat. However I always prefer a trad stern as I don't like the openess of a semi-trad or cruiser stern. When we hired I found having the family sat out on a cruiser stern tended to end up with chairs in the way whilst trying to steer.

[Ray T]

5 hours ago, WotEver said:

Whatever happened to Whitefield? Last I heard was she was for sale but that was 7 years ago. 

Last I knew it left Ventnor Marina and went to Mercia where it hung round for a while and sold circa £90k. The original build price being in the region of £250k. No idea what happened after that.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Ray T

[mark99]

9 hours ago, Ray T said:

Last I knew it left Ventnor Marina and went to Mercia where it hung round for a while and sold circa £90k. The original build price being in the region of £250k. No idea what happened after that.

 

It should be paraded at every historic event as the star turn. Whilst the video camera secretly records the crowd not the boat.

Edited July 5, 2017 by mark99

[Dave Payne]

11 hours ago, WotEver said:

Whatever happened to Whitefield? Last I heard was she was for sale but that was 7 years ago. 

 

Saw it last September near Kings bromley marina, still shiny, still covered in fenders.

[Tawny75]

We have been looking and have gone 'down ' into several boats.  I am a larger lady and I prefer the cruiser sterns as it tends to be wider doors and steps straight down with no twisting.  Al is also clumsy as hell and is sure will take a step back off a trad and end up in the canal!

[Captain Pegg]

21 hours ago, Dave Payne said:

Back cabin and engine room add up to what, 15ft?

Waste of space.

Keep your engine under your feet, out the back, behind a bulkhead where it belongs.

That's an interesting point of view from someone who started a thread about dreaming of buying nb Tay.

JP

[Dave Payne]

8 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

That's an interesting point of view from someone who started a thread about dreaming of buying nb Tay.

JP

It is isnt it, makes you wonder.

[Captain Pegg]

4 minutes ago, Dave Payne said:

It is isnt it, makes you wonder.

Of course some ingenious person may one day realise there is available space above the engine and build a mezzanine there.

That'd make for an interesting boat.

JP

[Dave_P]

There is no right answer to this.  

I bought a cruiser stern, reverse layout.  Many of the reasons for this have been given above but the deal breaker for me was that my original mooring was stern-on against a pontoon.  So I wanted easy and workable access from the stern.  Trads don't offer this.  So think about what works for you and how you intend to use the boat.  My cruiser stern is a little unusual in that the floor level is dropped down and not flush with the gunwales.  This gives me the benefit of being able to store all kinds of stuff on there without it ending up in the cut on a windy day.  The downside is that forward vision when cruising is affected as the cabin height seems much higher.  I also have a pretty high cabin top and roof boxes, but I'm 6'2" so, again, it works for me.  A short boater would not get on with my boat at all.

Trads should be seperated into two groups, trad-trad and modern trad.  Trad-trads have a separate engine room.  Modern trads have the engine under the counter.

Pros and cons:

Trad-trad - lots of interior space, but a fair bit not really useable for living space, quiet cruising, space to dry wet clothes, warm cruising, potentially lonely cruising, easy engine access.

Modern trad - the max indoor living space possible, not much room on rear deck, terrible engine access, warm cruising.

Semi-trad - sociable cruising, loss of indoor space, kind of looks like a trad, bad engine access, cold cruising.

cruiser - sociable cruising, cold cruising, easy access from the stern, good engine access (usually).

I now have a linear mooring so stern access is less important.  My good lady and I have tentatively considered buying a longer boat to live on together, 65'+.  I can see the benefit of a trad-trad, but would prefer a modern engine and controls. My OH is clear on one thing, she doesn't see any point in an engine room.  I suspect this is a common boy-girl split.

 

 

 

[magpie patrick]

51 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

Of course some ingenious person may one day realise there is available space above the engine and build a mezzanine there.

That'd make for an interesting boat.

JP

Hammock...

Possibly with a sliding sun roof over...

[Scholar Gypsy]

11 minutes ago, Dave_P said:

There is no right answer to this.  

I bought a cruiser stern, reverse layout.  Many of the reasons for this have been given above but the deal breaker for me was that my original mooring was stern-on against a pontoon.  So I wanted easy and workable access from the stern.  Trads don't offer this.  So think about what works for you and how you intend to use the boat.  My cruiser stern is a little unusual in that the floor level is dropped down and not flush with the gunwales.  This gives me the benefit of being able to store all kinds of stuff on there without it ending up in the cut on a windy day.  The downside is that forward vision when cruising is affected as the cabin height seems much higher.  I also have a pretty high cabin top and roof boxes, but I'm 6'2" so, again, it works for me.  A short boater would not get on with my boat at all.

Trads should be seperated into two groups, trad-trad and modern trad.  Trad-trads have a separate engine room.  Modern trads have the engine under the counter.

Pros and cons:

Trad-trad - lots of interior space, but a fair bit not really useable for living space, quiet cruising, space to dry wet clothes, warm cruising, potentially lonely cruising, easy engine access.

Modern trad - the max indoor living space possible, not much room on rear deck, terrible engine access, warm cruising.

Semi-trad - sociable cruising, loss of indoor space, kind of looks like a trad, bad engine access, cold cruising.

cruiser - sociable cruising, cold cruising, easy access from the stern, good engine access (usually).

I now have a linear mooring so stern access is less important.  My good lady and I have tentatively considered buying a longer boat to live on together, 65'+.  I can see the benefit of a trad-trad, but would prefer a modern engine and controls. My OH is clear on one thing, she doesn't see any point in an engine room.  I suspect this is a common boy-girl split.

 

 

 

I agree with much of this - in particular as noted above it's down to the owner to decide whether "sociable cruising" is an advantage or a disadvantage.

I do think it's an over sweeping statement to say that engine access in  modern trads is awful. Some are - eg the last boat I crewed on, access to the batteries required a contortionist - due to excess joinery which looks nice but does restrict access. But on my boat the whole floor comes out in about five minutes, and the steel supports, and you are left with this which is very easy to access.