Seriously scary moment at Hillmorton - And another volunteer lock-keeper concern.

[magpie patrick]

So what do people think we should do,please ? Do we just accept this as an unfortunate set of circumstances, or do we report the near miss to CRT, explaining that the volunteer locky had become convinced "it would sort itself out".

 

 

 

I can see you've had several other responses but thought I would add mine

 

Take it up with CRT, they need not just to speak to the locky but to explain to all volunteers that in this situation it is the boat skippers call not the locky's.

 

I once had something similar on the Huddersfield Narrow - the (paid) locky responded to my cry with alacrity, and a sprint that would have shamed Usain Bolt to get the top paddles up.

[Cruising Mike]

Perhaps during the winter, CRT could conduct practical exercise classes for all Vlockies. Visiting various points in the country so everyone can partake in them.

 

They could find a really cheap old unwanted 60/70ft boat or something of a similar size that floats. Then enroll those full time experienced Lock Keepers to conduct the classes.

 

What they could do is do bad things deliberately and see how VLockies cope with it and then train them afterwards. Such is deliberately cilling the boat (within limits of course), and other such incidents that may happen. Seeing such incidents first hand must surely go a long way to helping Vlockies understand better what may happen.

 

And of course, remind them that the crew are in charge at all times. Within reason, of course taking into account of those who may appear inexperienced.

[mark99]

Scarey. Glad you are all ok.

 

Same locks going up a few years back I was on roof walking to steps to get off and lockie opened the paddles - set me dancing on the roof a bit like a unicyclist on a rope. Idiot.

[patty-ann]

Hillmorton Locks are my "local ones" this thread has highlighted a problem that will make me proceed with even more caution. I have told little sis about dropping the paddles if i shout. I feel you should report this so that they can ensure VLockies are aware that paddles must be dropped fast if boat hooks up. Lots of gates seem to have bits that could hook a boat on.

I think on possible Health and Safety grounds has to be reported as its a hazard...it may be that more repair needed..i know Hillmorton locks have been repaired this year but perhaps something else needs doing

[Mike Tee]

This is the second incident discussed on here recently where a volocky is working to a script, but does not understand WHY things are happening, and therefore reacts incorrectly.

These people are in effect in a position of assumed control, and their training is just not good enough. I'm sure the incompetent ones are, I hope, in the minority, but how do you know you have a good one helping? These incidents can only give them all a bad reputation.

Myalid in an earlier post commented exactly how I feel, and far better than I can, but I agree with everyone, you really must take this down the official complaint route for the benefit of all of us.

Glad you emerged relatively unscathed and hope Odin forgets it quickly.

Your wine waiter needs a warning letter and a lot more practise.

[Pykebird]

Glad you are all ok. I always try and keep the boat moving slightly when in a lock so I am aware the minute something isn't right.

This stood me in good stead when on the Trent and Mersey sharing a lock with complete novices.

The gunnel wedged under a reinforcing brick and the boat started to list and wedge. Luckily when I screamed at the crew to drop the paddles, they did that and we managed to re float slowly, the only damage being my blood pressure and a few cups!!

Had they questioned me, the situation would have been worse. I have had lots of help in my travels and done the hillmorton flight but always keep my eyes on the ball.

As mentioned whoever is working the locks needs to treat each locking as a separate issue.

[bottle]

Alan, Cath, and crew glad that you and boat are safe, good job you are not part time boaters.

 

Never had a problem with the volockies at Hillmorton but that is only because I have seen their work and the bullshit they spew, so ensure we use the locks when they are not there.

 

Of course there are a few of them and they may not all be the same, maybe I just came across the bad ones.

[dave moore]

I've no direct experience of boating with these volunteers but I was working on a boat on the Waterfront moorings earlier this year and one of them engaged my customers in conversation. I got the impression that he was working to a script from CRT rather than being knowledgeable, though he obviously seemed to enjoy his work. Personally, I'd prefer to do things as I wish....

 

Dubious Dave

[haggis]

From Alan and Caths experience it is obvious that some volockies need more training and the ones at Fradley should be included! Coming up recently, there was a volunteer at both junction lock and the one before it and they both did the same! I wait till the boat is resting nicely on the top gate on the T & M then open a paddle a few inches. This causes the boat to move back slightly then come forward gently onto the gate again. Paddles can then be cracked up. At both locks, the volunteer whacked up the paddle on his side which caused the boat to surge back then forwards into the gate. I explained to both guys what had caused that and suggested that they watch the boat in the lock to see what effect their paddle winding had on it so they could take action quickly. They both seemed to understand but whether it will cause them to be more observant or not, who knows.

 

haggis

[alan_fincher]

Here is the form to report an accident or near miss.

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/1180.pdf

 

Yes, but I'm on a boat without a printer, and no access to any software that allows me to edit a PDF document..........

 

If they would only provide documents that people might be able to edit end email to them, but they don't seem to think these things through......

[Ray T]

 

Yes, but I'm on a boat without a printer, and no access to any software that allows me to edit a PDF document..........

 

If they would only provide documents that people might be able to edit end email to them, but they don't seem to think these things through......

 

You have a PM

[Emerald Fox]

 

I reckon the safest thing is for vlockies to concentrate on preparing the next lock, leaving me to work the one the boat is in. That's a help, without being a hindrance.

 

Yes, I like that. Quite a sensible tack.

[fretman]

We run a 70' boat and now tell everybody, we will do our own locks, as have had so many so called experienced people raise or drop paddles to fast or at the wrong times, that we just gave up , so , now I am responsible for the boat on the navigation and have signed to that effect as part of my agreement with the water authority.. and until I am told by the authority otherwise , then it's down to me.

Edited August 26, 2015 by fretman

[Bugsworth Tippler]

I had a near disaster with a volunteer lockey at Red Bull a few weeks ago. We were going up but the bottom gate swung open just before the paddles were raised. Despite standing on the horn the volunteer continued to raise the paddle. My wife ran back to close the gate but as she leant on the beam the gate slammed shut dumping her unceremoniously on the floor and trapping my fender between the gate. Eventually we got the volunteer to lower the paddle and progressed through the lock as normal.

 

When I reached the higher level I politely told the volunteer that he should have dropped the paddle as soon a there was a problem - I was seething but restrained myself. Despite me standing on the horn which was just a few feet away from him he said he hadn't realised there was a problem. I was lost for words!

 

While help from knowledgeable volunteers is welcome, I can do without having to keep an eye on 'helpers' who may do more harm than good.

 

Edited to dropped the paddle not dropped the panel (where did that come from?)

Edited August 26, 2015 by Bugsworth Tippler

[Machpoint005]

Absolutely agree with previous posters about reporting the incident: the person on the back of the boat is always in charge. I'm somewhat bemused, though, by the volocky's idea of "dropping" a paddle in an emergency -- winding it down?

 

I was shown by a working boatman nearly 50 years ago how to drop a paddle quickly by taking the pawl off and braking the pinion shaft with your hand(s) -- the paddle goes down in a couple of seconds without causing any damage. Doesn't anyone else know how to do this?

 

Failing that, lift the pawl and let go -- it was an emergency after all.

 

 

ETA: Of course, it could have been hydraulic paddle gear - it's a while since I've been through Hilmorton so no doubt somebody will enlighten me.

Edited August 26, 2015 by Machpoint005

[MtB]

While help from knowledgeable volunteers is welcome, I can do without having to keep an eye on 'helpers' who may do more harm than good.

 

 

Me too. As a single hander I find people 'helping' are pain in the arse as they need assessing and managing.

 

With a Volly wearing a CRT badge a further level of complication is introduced. Not only do i not know his competence, I now know Vollies are getting a reputation for thinking they own the lock and ignoring instructions from boat crews.

 

There was an noisy and almost violent altercation at this same lock between the Volly and the skippers of a couple of historic boats returning from Braunston Rally too apparently, so I was told by an incensed boater the other day who witnessed it.

[mark99]

Perhaps it's time these vollies actually ask if you want help and if yes, how much help.

[billS]

Perhaps it's time these vollies actually ask if you want help and if yes, how much help.

 

No need - just tell them.

 

If you ask them politely to stay away from the paddles while you transit the lock, then they must comply. it keeps it simple.

[mayalld]

 

 

Me too. As a single hander I find people 'helping' are pain in the arse as they need assessing and managing.

 

With a Volly wearing a CRT badge a further level of complication is introduced. Not only do i not know his competence, I now know Vollies are getting a reputation for thinking they own the lock and ignoring instructions from boat crews.

 

There was an noisy and almost violent altercation at this same lock between the Volly and the skippers of a couple of historic boats returning from Braunston Rally too apparently, so I was told by an incensed boater the other day who witnessed it.

 

The thing that I will remark upon is that when they first introduced volunteers, I spoke out stridently (yes, I know, don't I always) against them, and made it clear that I wanted nothing to do with them, and that the only help that I required is that they leave me alone to work the lock.

 

I predicted that the role would bring some people who wanted to play their way, and would use their position to assert their right to do so

 

At the time, I was roundly criticised by many.

 

I was being precious about my boat. Volunteers would be trained. I should be delighted about this. Who the hell did I think I was with this "my lock" nonsense?

 

It would seem that experience has proved that we are ending up with too many people who aren't going to do it right.

[bassplayer]

Perhaps it's time these vollies actually ask if you want help and if yes, how much help.

On the basis we are responsible for our own boat that's perhaps how it should work.

 

I do find their help useful sometimes especially when setting locks in advance.

[MtB]

Hopefully i wasn't one of them Dave.

 

My suspicion is that if you volunteer to be a locky you get sent on a one day training course, where the trainer explains a bit about dealing with the public, kids on bikes, grannies with sticks near locks etc... Then they get down to how a lock works in the afternoon.

 

After an hour or two of explaining and playing with a model of a lock, I suspect they then go outside to see a real one in action and maybe work a paddle or two. After that, it's back into the workshop for a final cup of tea and they leave having been pumped up by the trainer and given to believe they now know all there is to know about supervising a lock.

 

And I bet the word 'supervising' is used a lot, which is why there is a problem.

Edited August 26, 2015 by Mike the Boilerman

[mayalld]

 

No need - just tell them.

 

If you ask them politely to stay away from the paddles while you transit the lock, then they must comply. it keeps it simple.

 

I favour them asking, rather than the onus being on the boater to tell them that no help is wanted.

 

I know when we were coming up Fradley Junction Lock, I had just closed the bottom gates when the volunteer wound a top paddle, without checking with Bev, and before I had a chance to say that his help wasn't needed.

 

As OUR practice in a lock is generally to ride the forward gate, up and down, with me keeping an eye on whether that causes issues, at the time that he wound the paddle, Bev hadn't come to a stop, and was thrown about unnecessarily.

 

I shouldn't have to sprint to the top gate, or shout to him to leave alone. He shouldn't have been winding a paddle without the steerer's say-so.

[zenataomm]

 

Yes, but I'm on a boat without a printer, and no access to any software that allows me to edit a PDF document..........

 

If they would only provide documents that people might be able to edit end email to them, but they don't seem to think these things through......

 

For future reference Alan. If you open a PDF, click anywhere on any page, click ctrl + A it will highlight then COPY it.

You can then open a new Word doc. and paste it. You will have to reformat it by adding a few lines etc. But you will have an editable version which you can write onto and attach to an email.

Of course you could always just paste it straight into an email, but the editing in Word is easier.

Here's one I did earlier which if copy and paste into Word or an email you can then send off (signal permitting to day) to customer.services@canalrivertrust.org.uk

 

 

Visitor Incident Reporting

Canal & River Trust works to provide a safe environment for everyone who uses and visits

our canals and rivers. Although rare, incidents and accidents sometimes occur and it is

very important for us to find out as much as possible about these events

to help us to continue to keep the waterways safe.

The form

helps you to report any incident, accident or 'near miss' that you have

witnessed or been involved in while visiting or using our waterway sites. The information

you give will help us to investigate the cause of the problem, minimise the risk of it

happening again and where practical, remove potential hazards.

You can also use this form to report any incidence of vandalism or threatening behaviour.

Please complete the form and return it as soon as possible using the freepost address

below (no stamp required).

Alternatively you can

telephone

details of the incident to

03030404040, or

e-mail

customer.services@canalrivertrust.org.uk

This reporting should not be used as a replacement for reporting incidents to the Police or

local Trust office. By reporting an incident you could help save someone else from injury.

Please provide as much detail as you can, including information on any craft involved or

people who could help us if we need to investigate further.

We ask that you provide your name and contact details so that we can gather more information about the incident if necessary. Data Protection Act 1998 Notice

The information you give us, including any personal or sensitive information, will be held

on our electronic database for up to 6 years and will be used by us to investigate the cause

of incidents and for statistical analysis. It may also be used by partner organisations for

statistical reporting of incidents at a national level. Before passing on any information to

partner organisations, we will remove all personal identifiers.

You have a right to ask for a copy of your information (for which we will

charge a small fee) and to correct any inaccuracies in your data. If you give us information about

another person, you confirm that the other person has appointed you to act on their

behalf to the processing of their personal or sensitive data and to receive on their

behalf any data protection notices.

Details of incident, accident or near miss

What happened?

(Brief description of incident; include details of any craft or vehicles involved)

Boat name/Index No. (where appropriate)

When did it happen?

(date and location)

Where did it happen?

(exact location of incident, waterway, nearest bridge/lock/town/village)

Who was involved?

(details of injuredperson)

Full name:

Age:

Address:

Telephone No.

Did anyone need hospital treatment?

YES

NO

DON’T KNOW

Were the police informed?

YES Incident No.

NO

DON’T KNOW

Details of any injuries/damage to property or equipment

Any other comments

Details of person reporting incident

(if different from above)

Full Name

Telephone No

Address

Signature

Please send to

Safety Team,Canal & River Trust

FREEPOSTRSZGGACC-JCAC,

First Floor North Station House, 500 Elder Gate, Milton Keynes, MK9 1BBNO STAMP REQUIRED

[MtB]

 

I favour them asking, rather than the onus being on the boater to tell them that no help is wanted.

 

I know when we were coming up Fradley Junction Lock, I had just closed the bottom gates when the volunteer wound a top paddle, without checking with Bev, and before I had a chance to say that his help wasn't needed.

 

As OUR practice in a lock is generally to ride the forward gate, up and down, with me keeping an eye on whether that causes issues, at the time that he wound the paddle, Bev hadn't come to a stop, and was thrown about unnecessarily.

 

I shouldn't have to sprint to the top gate, or shout to him to leave alone. He shouldn't have been winding a paddle without the steerer's say-so.

 

 

This is especially poor etiquette, and a Volly really ought to know better.

 

I still suspect it's down to their training giving them the impression they are 'in charge' at a lock, hence they make the decisions.

[Dharl]

Alan am glad that you, your family and boat are all ok after this scary incident! Am glad that you are reporting it tooso that the powers that be can take note and act!

 

When we passed Hilmorton last month we saw the Volockies however seems a good thing that they didn't offer to help us through! The ones that we did meet on our travels have been (in the majority) boaters in one form or another, either current owners or hirers /sharers with some knowledge. If there are people offering to help in a lock am happy for them to open and close gates, however would prefer that only Mrs Dharl or myself does the paddles (unless sharing a lock of course!) as we 'have our system'.

 

Perhaps there should be a universal boaters sign when working locks that means "Emergency! drop paddles!"...Mrs Dharl and self work on the helmsman holding the horn down for a continuous blast as our emergency signal which means that. Lucky never had to use that yet..but be prepared!