Another down in a lock

[mango]

There was a time when most hire companies wouldn't hire to single sex groups for just that reason. But things seems to have changed.

 

Single sex groups might now be a big source of income to the boat hire industry. But if the insurance industry perceives them as a significantly higher risk, then things will change.

Maybe under 25s with no experience, but I've never had a problem with all-male groups, even with somewhat ambitious plans about what we could do in a week. When you are young, having members of the other sex could distract you from keeping an eye on the cill.

[ditchcrawler]

There is nothing to be worried about, just stick to the simple rule 'keep forward of the cill' and you will be fine. It is well marked often with a good margin of safety and there are reminder notices often on the gates/lock beams too.

 

 

Even if you do sense the boat has caught on the cill prompt action to drop the paddles to stop the lock emptying will stop the boat sinking.

 

But you only see that if you are looking backwards, 9 times out of 10 they are watching their lock crew draw the paddles so don't see the notice.

But it did use to happen - lots of the hire boat firms used to specifically not allow large single-sex parties.

 

As hire boat prices have increased, but general popularity of this type of holiday has fallen, as you suggest many will have been losing a source of income, and decided they have to be less picky about who they hire to.

 

Of course the likely trade off is that this kind of event becomes more frequent.

When I worked at a camp site in my youth we wouldn't allow all single sex parties because of the trouble they caused. Its probably against the law to have a discriminatory rule like that today.

[David Mack]

When I worked at a camp site in my youth we wouldn't allow all single sex parties because of the trouble they caused. Its probably against the law to have a discriminatory rule like that today.

Hire boat companies used to have a no single sex group rule, because the law wouldn't allow them to say no all male groups. But I guess the loss of potential business from all female groups was not that big an issue.

[haggis]

But you only see that if you are looking backwards, 9 times out of 10 they are watching their lock crew draw the paddles so don't see the notice.

I think when they put the cill notices on lock beams the theory was that as they cruised into the lock, they would see this big white sign beside them and actually read it! Obviously that theory didn't work very well. The BW director who explained this to me and who may have been responsible for having the notices put there is no longer with CRT :-)

 

haggis

[bigcol]

Isn't it law, that you carnt be consuming acohol whist in charge of a vessel?

Surely if proved the hirers and hiree will be on sticky ground if the helmsman was under the influence??

 

Glad no one was hurt,

 

but are we going to in the future, be having a major accident involving more than one boat, and folks drowning.?

 

We're talking about it, it hadn't happend yet. But could it?

 

It should be in the insurers conditions, that one sex parties will not be covered by their insurence

And this will then stop accidents like this happening.

 

Ps I feel old, I sound old.

Boating isn't boating without drink!!

[Sir Nibble]

 

Or leaky gates???

 

I don't know the lock in question so that's just a guess.

I do, you're right.

[Guest]

But it did use to happen - lots of the hire boat firms used to specifically not allow large single-sex parties.As hire boat prices have increased, but general popularity of this type of holiday has fallen, as you suggest many will have been losing a source of income, and decided they have to be less picky about who they hire to.Of course the likely trade off is that this kind of event becomes more frequent.

Sorry yes I meant a blanket ban across all hire companies, many see it as a good income stream.

 

It has a long history too, my late father actually spent his 'stag do' on a hire boat with his mates what will now be 55/56 years ago. It was on the broads not the canals though but stag and hen parties have an equally bad reputation there as they do on the canals even though I think they manage to sink boats there with less frequency.

[magpie patrick]

One of the reasons I intend to never go to the K&A again is these stag parties. We did Reading to Bath last summer and back to Devizes. We saw drunken collisions in Bathampton, noisy shouting and singing until 0300, boats tied to dock landings, boats pulling out directly in front of you and stealing the next lock. One boat even had a full barrel of beer on the stern deck. Apparently there are over 90 registered charter boats between Devizes and Bath. I'm only surprised it took so long for one of them to get cilled (if that's a word).

I was going to go on and wonder how good CRT would be at sinking this one - they managed quite spectacularly do that in Bath this Spring but it seems it managed to sink anyway.

 

It's the second this year and about the fifth in the last 3 years at these locks, at least one other has been in lock 10!

 

Thinking about it I don't think any of the others were stag parties though.

 

The deep lock (next one down) had guard rails when it was built in the 1970's, they didn't last long as the fire service cut them off the first time a boat was cilled there.

[Ray T]

There are some photos on the K&A facebook page. Its a hire boat (again) and without wishing to make judgements, it was commented that there are quite a lot of empty beer cans visible in the photo!

 

.............Dave,

 

Could you provide a link please? I have searched and cannot find the page.

 

Thank you.

[koukouvagia]

A local, now defunct, hire firm used to be notorious for stag parties. On one occasion I remember the lockie at Cowroast simply chained up the lock one evening and refused entry to a particular boisterous and inebriated group.

[Guest]

But you only see that if you are looking backwards, 9 times out of 10 they are watching their lock crew draw the paddles so don't see the notice..

I'm not sure where else they could put them.

 

Yes I suppose they could go on the back side of the bottom gates but they would need to be pretty large to be seen from the stern. Besides I find myself looking backwards in a lock quite often...............to check how close I may be to the cill of course.

 

The thing is, there is only so much CRT can do to make boating safe, boaters themselves including hire boaters need to take some responsibility for their safety too and bone up how to. There are more than enough resources out there in order to able to do it.

[Martin Megson]

 

Doesn't seem to be quite true of this particular lock!

 

I stand corrected.

[Emerald Fox]

If children had drowned in this case, the tone would be different...?

 

The Police should be round to give those lager-louts a good thrashing with Big Sticks, then the hire company owners round to give them another beating, then the insurance company reps round to beat them some more!

How about stag parties on trucks going up the M6?

 

"I am being flippant I love a good malt and most times find the more complex flavours are brought out by a dash of water" - each to their own but I find this is the myth blurted out by sales people in the World of Whiskies / Tax Free shops at airports. I usually drink single malts as they are - I do add a drop or two of water to see if there's a difference, but quite honestly it just tastes like... er... a drop or two of water has been added!

There's more than enough 'drops of water' on your tongue already.

Would you drop some water onto your bacon butty to 'bringout the taste'? Thought not

Edited November 2, 2014 by Emerald Fox

[J R]

Yes it was a so called 'booze cruise'. Langton, a sponsored in boat to the Anglo Welsh hire boat fleet, was/is based at Sally Narrowboats at Bradford on Avon marina. I know the person who did the show out on the boat and he would have never the boat to go if he thought it would end in disaster. Sadly hire boat companies go for the money and there is little regard for those who use the canal. It should be noted that Sally Narrowboats earlier this year repoed a booze cruise boat because of all the mayhem they caused, again in Bath.

 

I have herd that CaRT were slow to respond or react on their emergency telephone line, as were the Enviroment Agency.

 

Langton was 2 years old and cost £90k. Hope that the owner is insured. On the photos, the lock filled because of leaking gates. The damage could perhaps have been reduced if the bottom gates had been left open but there a huge diesel spill and CaRT have put in booms so that is does not get to the river.

 

The only upside is that no one was injured. Boatsare replaceable; people ar not. This is the second boat this year to be lost on the Bath flight. Next year?

[Emerald Fox]

"and CaRT have put in booms so that is does not get to the river" - CaRT before the horse - "the lock filled because of leaking gates". - no funds for leaking gates, but plenty of dosh for booms? Oh... but then the insurers will be paying for the clean up... so that's OK.

[dmr]

 

Could you provide a link please? I have searched and cannot find the page.

 

Thank you.

 

I am useless with facebook, it goes against all my "computer intuition".

See if this works...

I(f so there are two separate items if you scroll down a bit.)

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/178384468913736/

 

It might be a closed group now, not sure, it used to be viewable by everyone but some bad people did make trouble a while ago and so there was talk of making it private.

 

...........Dave

[Guest]

I am useless with facebook, it goes against all my "computer intuition".

See if this works...

I(f so there are two separate items if you scroll down a bit.)

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/178384468913736/

 

It might be a closed group now, not sure, it used to be viewable by everyone but some bad people did make trouble a while ago and so there was talk of making it private.

 

...........Dave

It is a closed group.

 

The clue is on the bit top right that says 'closed group'

[Iain_S]

(snip the on topic stuff)

"I am being flippant I love a good malt and most times find the more complex flavours are brought out by a dash of water" - each to their own but I find this is the myth blurted out by sales people in the World of Whiskies / Tax Free shops at airports. I usually drink single malts as they are - I do add a drop or two of water to see if there's a difference, but quite honestly it just tastes like... er... a drop or two of water has been added!

There's more than enough 'drops of water' on your tongue already.

Would you drop some water onto your bacon butty to 'bringout the taste'? Thought not

 

No point adding water to the bacon butty : there's plenty added water already

 

I'm in the dash of water camp for the malt. (Of course, the water has to have come from above the Munro line )

 

Iain

[bottle]

I never use water with whisky but have been told if you must, then the water should come from the same source as that used to make the whisky

[ditchcrawler]

Sorry yes I meant a blanket ban across all hire companies, many see it as a good income stream.

 

It has a long history too, my late father actually spent his 'stag do' on a hire boat with his mates what will now be 55/56 years ago. It was on the broads not the canals though but stag and hen parties have an equally bad reputation there as they do on the canals even though I think they manage to sink boats there with less frequency.

I have seen the arse ends pulled out with a rope on the stern cleat, a lot were wooden then.

I'm not sure where else they could put them.

 

Yes I suppose they could go on the back side of the bottom gates but they would need to be pretty large to be seen from the stern. Besides I find myself looking backwards in a lock quite often...............to check how close I may be to the cill of course.

 

The thing is, there is only so much CRT can do to make boating safe, boaters themselves including hire boaters need to take some responsibility for their safety too and bone up how to. There are more than enough resources out there in order to able to do it.

So therefore you don't need them,

The only time I really notice the sign is when going up and its in front of me. I know my boat is only 57 feet and I am usually against the gate but I don't wear my glasses when boating.

[Guest]

I have seen the arse ends pulled out with a rope on the stern cleat, a lot were wooden then.

Yes his hire boat was wooden looking at the photographs, well it was over fifty years ago.

 

I didn't say none had been sunk by stag or hen parties BTW, just perhaps they do it less frequently on the broads, but in the absence of any meaningful comparative stats. not 100% sure.

[sueb]

I think when they put the cill notices on lock beams the theory was that as they cruised into the lock, they would see this big white sign beside them and actually read it! Obviously that theory didn't work very well. The BW director who explained this to me and who may have been responsible for having the notices put there is no longer with CRT :-)

 

haggis

 

I agree with Ditchcrawler. These signs are as good as useless when they are behind you. When you go into a lock you are looking at the far end of the lock not above and beside you. These accidents will continue until Cart alter the signs

 

[Guest]

I agree with Ditchcrawler. These signs are as good as useless when they are behind you. When you go into a lock you are looking at the far end of the lock not above and beside you. These accidents will continue until Cart alter the signs

 

Really? I tend to keep a good look in all directions when in a lock.

 

These accidents will continue as long as some boaters don't accept some responsibility for their own safety.

 

CRT are not our nannies they are a navigation authority, we could have all manner of rails and signs installed by which time they will have created a whole new set of of hazards to trip over.

 

Perhaps some boaters would be happy if the whole system was governed by Disney, with guided rails to move their boats gently along, never veering off course and with automated locks that gently and in total safety elevated their boats up wards.

[magpie patrick]

Really? I tend to keep a good look in all directions when in a lock.

 

These accidents will continue as long as some boaters don't accept some responsibility for their own safety.

 

CRT are not our nannies they are a navigation authority, we could have all manner of rails and signs installed by which time they will have created a whole new set of of hazards to trip over.

 

Perhaps some boaters would be happy if the whole system was governed by Disney, with guided rails to move their boats gently along, never veering off course and with automated locks that gently and in total safety elevated their boats up wards.

 

This

 

About ten years ago there was a record number of sinkings, around 30 across the system. There were several debates and I was in one at Gloucester. Among the themes were

 

Where the hell do you put the signs so the boater is guaranteed to read them?

 

How do you do this without cluttering the locks with signs?

 

How do you avoid the safety precautions becoming a hazard in their own right (not relevant to cills, but fences around locks, intended to keep the public from falling, create more problems than they solve for example)

 

It's debatable whether the signs save ANY accidents, as aware boaters know to avoid the cill and gormless ones don't see the signs...

[DHutch]

 

In my opinion it should stop at a blanket ban on stag parties. Simple.

 

MtB

As said. Not simple at all.

 

What about if sensable level headed bloke and his tea total freinds want to do a weeks boating to celibrate his inpending marriage.

 

Or a group of 20 yo blokes, none of which are planning a marriage want to do a weeks hiring but are mistaken for a stag do.

 

 

Daniel