Stern types.

[Guest]

You could dispense with the seatbelt in your car if you focus very carefully on not crashing it.

 

Wearing a seatbelt is a way of managing the risk, so no not really.

[adam1uk]

I think the risk of this is overplayed - yes there are 2 known examples of hirers being killed in this way but I would say inexperience played at least a part in both those incidents.

 

The secret is to keep out of the tiller arc especially if reversing and in locks, then they are perfectly safe.

You say inexperience played a part, and yet plenty of boat owners are seen standing in the arc of the tiller. I constantly see people standing on the counter with the tiller tucked under their arm, and having to cling on for dear life when they need to put the tiller hard over. I find this particularly baffling on semi-trads, where the owners have a big deck to stand on, yet choose to position themselves beyond it.

[Arthur Marshall]

You say inexperience played a part, and yet plenty of boat owners are seen standing in the arc of the tiller. I constantly see people standing on the counter with the tiller tucked under their arm, and having to cling on for dear life when they need to put the tiller hard over. I find this particularly baffling on semi-trads, where the owners have a big deck to stand on, yet choose to position themselves beyond it.

I sit comfortably on a seat on the cruiser stern with my arm on the tiller. If I have a tricky corner or have a boat to pass I get off the chair. It's not rocket science... how fast do you have to be going to have to suddenly and unexpectedly heave the tiller across at right angles?

[Guest]

You say inexperience played a part, and yet plenty of boat owners are seen standing in the arc of the tiller. I constantly see people standing on the counter with the tiller tucked under their arm, and having to cling on for dear life when they need to put the tiller hard over. I find this particularly baffling on semi-trads, where the owners have a big deck to stand on, yet choose to position themselves beyond it.

Yes good point, inexperience and a lack of awareness of the risk perhaps better covers it.

 

We see the same and in fact we were guilty of doing the same in our earlier days.

 

TBH I will also still risk sitting on the seat alongside the tiller going ahead on some of the long deep sections of the waterways up here.

[carlt]

Good safety comes from eliminating the risk - not by attempting to contain it. It is the logical corollary of Murphy's Law.

You could dispense with the seatbelt in your car if you focus very carefully on not crashing it.

You could never get out of bed either...as long as you had someone come in a few times a day to turn you, to avoid the risk of bedsores.

 

I don't want to live in a world without risk and, frankly, venturing within the arc of the tiller bar is not high on my list of thrill-seeking activities.

 

You must faint at the sight of white water rafting.

[nb Innisfree]

I think this kind of accident is rare because it takes a combination of effects occuring together, i.e. in a lock or up against a bank or wall etc, in reverse, full throttle plus something that causes the steerer to fall over the stern.

 

An old thread discussed the Oxford incident extensively and was eventually closed in respect of the relatives involved. My solution was to modify morse type control handles so that reverse had a spring bias so that when the handle was released when the steerer fell overboard it returned to neutral, simple and quite foolproof without the need for the steerer to actively engage a safety mechanism.

 

But probably it will never be implemented because it's a rare event, though the nature of this type of accident is particularly unpleasant due to carastrophic injuries and the fact that it occurs in pursuit of a seemingly gentle and safe pastime.

I sit comfortably on a seat on the cruiser stern with my arm on the tiller. If I have a tricky corner or have a boat to pass I get off the chair. It's not rocket science... how fast do you have to be going to have to suddenly and unexpectedly heave the tiller across at right angles?

It's not a problem when in forward gear, you will fall off and get a dunking at best or drowned at worst. The risk comes from the fact that a prop in reverse will drag someone in to it and this is most likeky to happen in a lock, especially if the steerer is distracted and the boat hits the rear of the lock and catches the steerer off balance, also, if the steerer is unfortunate enough to grab something to save them and that something is the control handle then they will pull it back into reverse and apply full power, the rest is inevitable.

[Phil Ambrose]

My vote goes for Semi-Trad, bench seats either side for crew plus the bonus of stern doors to close so I stand out of the tiller arc while gettind a degree of shelter. Also ease of access to my battery bank which is under one bench seat while under the other is my pair of gas bottles,makes changing them easy. If I need to work on my engine I just pop the torneau cover on,I don't think there is more internal space on Trad as it is taken up by steps up etc, but that's just my opinion.

 

Phil

[David Mack]

Oxford incident

 

Alrewas incident

 

ed to add links and correct dates.

Both links point to the Cropredy incident.

[Caprifool]

It will be trad for me. Waterproof on top, shorts below, doors closed and hatch pulled right against tummy. Also, having all the shed things close by is nice. And to me, they just look nicer.

[nb Innisfree]

It will be trad for me. Waterproof on top, shorts below, doors closed and hatch pulled right against tummy.

Let's just hold that image for a while...

[frahkn]

Storage opportunities aside, I think there is little difference between a cruiser and a semi-trad stern.

 

Certainly there is a bigger difference between a trad with the engine under the steps and one with a boatman’s cabin and separate engine room.

 

It really depends on what (with experience) you find preferable and, to some extent, how big a front deck you have. There is plenty of room on our trad stern for two (and even my best friend wouldn’t call me ‘thin’) but we usually use the front deck to sit out when moored.

[Guest]

Both links point to the Cropredy incident.

Cheers - now corrected.

Edited September 7, 2013 by The Dog House

[Caprifool]

Let's just hold that image for a while...

And be thankful for the closed doors? :-D

[junior]

 

 

They seem to be becoming quite common/popular. Does this mean there has to officially be FOUR stern types and someone needs to think of a name for it, or can we just lump them in with Semi-Trads?

 

In answer to the OP's question... You need a Trad stern.

[Hawkmoth]

Choices, choices! Now, if you throw into the debate PO v cassette , you could really create a dilemma!

Bob

[Neil2]

From what you say there is no question in my view. You need a trad stern.

That will give you some more useful cabin space, but above all you will be vastly more sheltered and warmer on the tiller in bad weather.

We have a trad and wouldn't change it. We boat all year round and see steerers frozen on the open decks of cruiser stern boats when we are warm on our back step.

We have hired cruisers too, so have direct experience of these. They are lovely on the rare warm summer days when you have a crowd aboard to share the back deck. How often will that happen for you?

Semi-trads seem to me to be the worst of both with few of the advantages of either trad or cruiser.

I agree with that totally, but we would always go for a cruiser because we don't cruise in the winter and we have three dogs, all of which like to be on deck. When it is cold and wet I do envy trad owners.

 

There was a good point about weed hatch access on a trad, but that can be just as difficult on a cruiser if it's badly designed and many are. The same applies to battery/engine access. Some cruisers I've been on have spectacularly difficult access to the engine bay, but I suspect this is because the better you make the access the more chance there is of rain entering the bilge which is often one big drawback with a party sized cockpit.

 

Not all trads are "true" trads either. By that I mean a real trad should be steered from within the rear doors, on some the deck is too big, in my opinion.

[Barry]

 

They seem to be becoming quite common/popular. Does this mean there has to officially be FOUR stern types and someone needs to think of a name for it, or can we just lump them in with Semi-Trads?

 

 

 

 

Its a trad stern cabriolet of course

 

I like the design a lot

[john6767]

 

 

Its a trad stern cabriolet of course

 

I like the design a lot

You don't have to go to the extreme of that though. This is ours (from the sales literature when we bought it), and it gives plenty of room for 2 people inside the hatch (the non-steerer can sit on a stool if they want as well). The main disadvantage is the weight of the hatch, and there is some space at the side of you when it is raining and the hatch is pulled back and the doors closed. So if you are concerned about a trad not being suitable as there is only space of one comfortably, this makes an alternative choice to going for a semi-trad.

 

[Captain Fizz]

Trad stern for me, cruising all year I just like the extra weather protection.

[RLWP]

Storage opportunities aside, I think there is little difference between a cruiser and a semi-trad stern.

 

Certainly there is a bigger difference between a trad with the engine under the steps and one with a boatman’s cabin and separate engine room.

 

{snip}

 

I have found that generally the 'stand on the engine' trad is the worst to work on, and the most awkward to get into the boat. Th semi-trad is often difficult to get around the engine, the cruiser stern is usually a doddle. Clearly the best for maintenance is the engine in a separate room - as long as that room doesn't also include a washing machine, toilet, drying rack, workbench, a dozen coats....

 

Richard

[Naughty Cal]

Aft cockpit with full set of covers. Remove covers to be out in the sunshine during the summer. Cruise with covers up during the winter to stay warm, dry and cosy.

 

Oh and wheel steering. Don't like tillers:)

[nb Innisfree]

 

I have found that generally the 'stand on the engine' trad is the worst to work on, and the most awkward to get into the boat. Th semi-trad is often difficult to get around the engine, the cruiser stern is usually a doddle. Clearly the best for maintenance is the engine in a separate room - as long as that room doesn't also include a washing machine, toilet, drying rack, workbench, a dozen coats....

 

Richard

Also some cruiser sterns owners having plenty of engine access decide to cram in loads of extra stuff and finish up with difficult access.

Oh and wheel steering. Don't like tillers:)

Rock on baby...

[DaveC]

Cruiser (social) stern with a pram hood to keep the weather out - and yes, you can cruise with the pram hood up.

 

 

Dave

[nb Innisfree]

Cruiser (social) stern with a pram hood to keep the weather out - and yes, you can cruise with the pram hood up.

 

 

Dave

We love our pramhood, gives us an extra room, nice to hang about in it while moored up in the rain and watch the world go by. Great for wet weather cruising, also nice with the screen up when there's a cold wind.

[Naughty Cal]

We very rarely sit In the cabin. Even in the depths if winter we sit upstairs in the cockpit with an extra heater if plugged in to the hook up. We prefer to watch the world go by and in the winter watch the snow falling.