Mooring pins with loops...

[Pete of Ebor]

We moored on the GU last week close to Kingswood Junction. We had borrowed the boat from a friend, and the mooring pins on board had loops welded on at the top. Despite many years of hiring, we had never seen these before. We assumed the the loop was there to put the rope through, so we duly obliged and went for a little light refreshment at The Boot Inn near Lock 13 on The Stratford. On our return, we found that the loops were gone from the pins, and the boat had been re-tied. We could only assume that someone had gone past at warp 8 and that the loops were simply not strong enough to hold the boat in this situation. This begs two questions -

1) Should you tie to the loop, to the pin or even to both ?

2) If the loop is obviously not strong enough to tie to, what's it there for ?

[Keeping Up]

No the loop is NOT strong enough to tie to. You should pass the rope around the pin, then have it pass through the loop before it returns to the boat where you tie off to the T-stud or dolly. The pin provides the strength to hold the boat but if the pin should pull out of the ground the loop will stop it from falling off the rope and getting lost.

[haggis]

We moored on the GU last week close to Kingswood Junction. We had borrowed the boat from a friend, and the mooring pins on board had loops welded on at the top. Despite many years of hiring, we had never seen these before. We assumed the the loop was there to put the rope through, so we duly obliged and went for a little light refreshment at The Boot Inn near Lock 13 on The Stratford. On our return, we found that the loops were gone from the pins, and the boat had been re-tied. We could only assume that someone had gone past at warp 8 and that the loops were simply not strong enough to hold the boat in this situation. This begs two questions -

1) Should you tie to the loop, to the pin or even to both ?

2) If the loop is obviously not strong enough to tie to, what's it there for ?

 

You are supposed to tie the rope to both the pin and through the loop. The purpose of the loop is so that if your pin gets pulled out and dragged into the cut, you will still be able to retrive it by pulling the rope. Where the rope is just tied to a pin they are more likely to part company in this scenario.

 

haggis

 

Sorry, just repeating what Allan said. Must type quicker :-)

Edited August 14, 2011 by haggis

[Pete of Ebor]

No the loop is NOT strong enough to tie to. You should pass the rope around the pin, then have it pass through the loop before it returns to the boat where you tie off to the T-stud or dolly. The pin provides the strength to hold the boat but if the pin should pull out of the ground the loop will stop it from falling off the rope and getting lost.

 

I have to say that's what I guessed... but not until after we came back from the pub !

[Graham Davis]

Coo.

You learn something new every day!

Method will be changed next time we are out.

[Tiggers]

I use the loop when there is armcoe (is that the right word or have I just made that up?!), I pass a loop of rope through the loop and then place the pin in the armcoe and with the end going through the loop in the rope. Tends to stop the pin coming out.

[RLWP]

We retied a boat at Banbury that was across the cut because it had pulled the loop off the pin

 

Richard

[ditchcrawler]

We retied a boat at Banbury that was across the cut because it had pulled the loop off the pin

 

Richard

I have had loops just fall off as I hammer the pin in let alone put any strain on it. like wise I have had two pins snap off just above the point the loops are welded and one snap where the thick end is welded to the pin.

[Speedwheel]

I like it when people bang the pin in about 6 inches and then tie to the loop which is about 12+ inches about the ground - and then wonder why their pins pull out.

[Pie Eater]

Coo.

You learn something new every day!

Method will be changed next time we are out.

I think a lot of boaters (like me) learn the hard way. Having said that a loop fell off one of my pins yesterday as I hammered it in the ground.

 

Steve

[Midnight Rider]

I use the loop when there is armcoe (is that the right word or have I just made that up?!), I pass a loop of rope through the loop and then place the pin in the armcoe and with the end going through the loop in the rope. Tends to stop the pin coming out.

I would have thought that if you were mooring against armco you would be using 'nappy pins' or chains, whereas I think that the OP was refering to spikes.

[Tiggers]

I use my spikes for armco, I dont have any chains or nappy pins and I find the spikes with the loop work better for me

[nb Innisfree]

Loop tends to get accidentally hammered and this can crack the welds so let the pin take the strain not the welds.

[Midnight Rider]

I use my spikes for armco, I dont have any chains or nappy pins and I find the spikes with the loop work better for me

Ok --- fair do's.

[ditchcrawler]

Loop tends to get accidentally hammered and this can crack the welds so let the pin take the strain not the welds.

You don't need to hit the rings for them to fall off, I think just the jarring fatigues the joints.

[David Schweizer]

You don't need to hit the rings for them to fall off, I think just the jarring fatigues the joints.

Yes, the Boating Blacksmith who makes my pins for me , told me that the constant hammering causes weld fatigue, and that they should be re-welded as soon as cracks appear.

Edited August 14, 2011 by David Schweizer

[boatyboy]

No the loop is NOT strong enough to tie to. You should pass the rope around the pin, then have it pass through the loop before it returns to the boat where you tie off to the T-stud or dolly. The pin provides the strength to hold the boat but if the pin should pull out of the ground the loop will stop it from falling off the rope and getting lost.

Utter cobblers ! To say the loop is not strong enough is wrong.They are usually 9mm steel heavily welded to the pin.If your rope manages to 'A' break the weld on the loop,or 'B' stay in the dirt and break the weld. Was the pin put in By pile driver into cement ?

We've been mooring up like that for nearly thirty years.When i had to weld on my own loops.

Mind you..The ones you buy in chandlery's have a habit of the weld cracking after several months of being beaten on the head.

[RLWP]

Utter cobblers ! To say the loop is not strong enough is wrong.They are usually 9mm steel heavily welded to the pin.If your rope manages to 'A' break the weld on the loop,or 'B' stay in the dirt and break the weld. Was the pin put in By pile driver into cement ?

We've been mooring up like that for nearly thirty years.When i had to weld on my own loops.

Mind you..The ones you buy in chandlery's have a habit of the weld cracking after several months of being beaten on the head.

 

There is a variety that uses a thin loop - about 6mm - often in a vee rather than a loop. These seem to be quite frail

 

We have three of the hefty looped ones you describe, and I wouldn't trust the weld on the loop when I can use the pin to do the job

 

Richard

[sharpness]

I always thought the ring was there to stop little oiks casually slipping your rope off the pin when you wern't looking, not to stop the pin getting lost when a speeding boat pulled them out.

 

Steve

[David Mack]

No the loop is NOT strong enough to tie to. You should pass the rope around the pin, then have it pass through the loop before it returns to the boat where you tie off to the T-stud or dolly. The pin provides the strength to hold the boat but if the pin should pull out of the ground the loop will stop it from falling off the rope and getting lost.

 

And if you have pins without loops, instead of just passing the rope around the pin, tie it on with a clove hitch, and then if the pin does pull out, it will still be attached to the rope.

 

David

[Smelly]

And if you have pins without loops, instead of just passing the rope around the pin, tie it on with a clove hitch, and then if the pin does pull out, it will still be attached to the rope.

 

David

 

But how do you get tension on the line? Surely lines are supposed to run...

[luctor et emergo]

Mooring pins? With loops? Sounds like an expensive fad to me. I use a 4' length of re-bar, pushed 3'' into the ground, with the line (loosly) tied to the top.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, if it works with BW's expensive workboats.....

[Tiggers]

And if you have pins without loops, instead of just passing the rope around the pin, tie it on with a clove hitch, and then if the pin does pull out, it will still be attached to the rope.

 

David

 

Times like this I wish I had joined the scouts/brownies as a kid :s

[nb Innisfree]

I think it might be better if the whole pin was heat treated after the welds were done.

 

Boater friend of ours uses pins without an eye, one day he was on the boat heaving on the line when it slipped off the top of the pin and he did a perfect back flip into the cut

[Ex- Member]

Having read through this thread It seems my way of mooring with pins is a bit unorthodox. All my mooring pins have loops, I hammer in the pin 90% then thread the rope through the loop then hammer the pin in further until the loop is almost into the ground, I then tie off on the boat bollard. This allows me to make any adjustment from the boat, and avoids people untying you from the bank, as it's difficult to pull out a mooring pin when the rope is at an adverse angle to the mooring pin. However when I untie I loosen from the boats bollard then on to the bank, line the rope up at the same angle as the pin and a simple pull removes the pin.

 

I've never do it any other way really and never found it a problem, and certainly have never suffered a broken loop or lost a pin.

Edited August 15, 2011 by Julynian